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Originally Posted by BlueGuy
I've had another idea for a talent

Displaced Image
===========
An ability to displace your image up to three feat from its location. Could be useful in combat or for a nefarious rogue to distract. The image cannot perform any action itself and will disappear if attacked or interacted with.



Talents are passive. I did make some Talent suggestions for DOS 1 which had Talents granting you a skill, but I've made a conscious decision to avoid those this time. This suggestion is clearly an active skill.


Originally Posted by Swedley of Smeg
How about:

Weaponmaster
--------------------
Your first Weapon switch per turn costs no AP

----------------------------------------------------


Neat idea.


Originally Posted by cool-dude01
" Death Thrall"

a talent that turns the enemies you kill into zombies that fight for you, and the type of damage they do determines the kind of damage the zombie does.

This talent would require a medium to high number of points into Necromancy, as it would be intended to be a mid to late game talent choice.


Tricky. Adding extra allied bodies to the field could be incredibly helpful if only for distraction purposes, but it could rapidly become unbalanced if the percent chance of creating a zombie is too high.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
[quote=BlueGuy]I've had another idea for a talent

Displaced Image
===========
An ability to displace your image up to three feat from its location. Could be useful in combat or for a nefarious rogue to distract. The image cannot perform any action itself and will disappear if attacked or interacted with.


"Talents are passive. I did make some Talent suggestions for DOS 1 which had Talents granting you a skill, but I've made a conscious decision to avoid those this time. This suggestion is clearly an active skill."

Your right it is indeed a skill (me and my fuzzy thinking). If I rework it I imagine it could be a talent. Maybe the displaced image is automatically activated if the player starts sneaking there by making it a passive talent.



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I should preface this list by saying that I personally really like talents that change the way your characters strategize. So a lot of these are significant changes. My reasoning, is that it makes each run feel substantially different and fresh if you have to play it differently. It seems that so far in DOS 2 the talents have been very toned down so they don’t have a huge effect on your playstyle. I think players should have the choice to take talents that really DO effect how you play the game.


Blind Seer –champion is permanently blind and only has a short sight range but can cast spells through other party members as if standing where the allied character is. Does not suffer blindness sight debuff when casting through allies (Personally I love talents like this that fundamentally change the way you play a run. You can cast spells through your tank for example but you are far more vulnerable if you get jumped on)

Vengeful Shadow – 10% chance on taking combat damage, that a shadow will appear and perform an attack on the enemy who inflicted the damage, before disappearing again. Damage dealt scales with maximum hp.

Blood rage – any time you take damage equal to 20% of your maximum health, your next ability deals 50% bonus damage

Hemihypertrophy – can wield a 2 handed weapon in one hand, but the other hand can only ever hold a shield. After all modifiers are calculated, your total move speed per AP is halved and you can never dodge attacks (and maybe your character has a permanent limp?). (This is actually a medical condition where one side of your body grows much more than the other side). Another example of a talent I’d love to see because of how it changes the way you fight. You could even push this even further by reducing your max AP by 1, but every third attack deals bonus damage (scaling on strength) and knocks the target down. Obviously this idea is a HUGE change to playstyle but overall it’s definitely a buff.

Raging Healer – after healing allied party members with 4-5 skills, your next damaging spell automatically crits

Leprosy – each time you take damage, all enemies within 1 meter become diseased for 2 turns but everyone’s attitude to you is reduced by 30 (or maybe more?). Alternatively, the cost for such a powerful talent could just be a -1 to an attribute (constitution maybe?). Or maybe all characters within 1 meter become diseased including allied characters, and have no attribute penalty.

Arachnids curse – every time you deal damage there is a 5% chance you will summon a shadow spider beside the target, AND beside yourself. Shadow spiders have no allegiance and will attack the closest visible target (besides another shadow spider). Conversely, they could be voidwoken spiders who won’t attack other voidwoken creatures but I don’t know if this will fit with the story later down the track. Personally I like they idea of them being voidwoken, but I don’t know what Larian has planned story wise. Another way to do this is to instead deal 10% bonus shadow (or void) damage on all attacks and abilities, but the spider only spawns beside you when it procs.

Soul Tethered – designate another character, all damage and healing received (not status effects) is divided equally between the two soul teathered characters. While this is definitely a buff if you put on two weaker party members so they can’t get bursted down so easily, its possible it may need a buff as well, like +1 constitution. But it may be strong enough without it.

I’ll do it myself! (or Contempt for the Weak) – can no longer cast healing or shielding spells on allies, but your spells gain a 20-30% damage increase for each party member that is incapacitated (stunned, knocked down etc)

These are a few ideas I spent some time on, and I really hope talents become a lot more significant

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Talent Suggestions:

One-handed 3:"Swift" On each attack you have 50% chance to steal a random consumable out of the target's pocket.

Dual-wielding 5: "Surprise Attack" Whenever you jump into direct proximity of an enemy you gain an extra attack.

Two-handed 8:"Executioner" Whenever you attack you gain an additional swing for 30% damage if it would kill the target. (Check and damage explicitly after the attack)

Ranger 3:"Awareness" You gain a "large amount of" Initiative.

Physical armor 5:"Bulwark" Whenever combat starts or you equip a shield you raise your shield, which reduces incoming damage by 90% until your next turn.

Pyromancy 8:"Bonfire" You gain additional range as well as truesight over burning areas

Geomancy 8:"Bombardement" Your spells have a rate of 30% to reduce their targets' AP by 1.

Hydrosophist 5:"Minor Immortality" Whenever your vitality receives damage you heal yourself by 30% of said damage.

Necromancy 5:"Devourer" Whenever you gain a relevant amount of health (excluding passive effects) your attributes increase by 2 until the end of the fight.

Aerotheurge 10:"Lightning Rod" Yeah... stun immunity.

Trigger schedule as follows: Damage->Minor Immortality->Death->Comeback Kid->Executioner

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For talents:

defensive specialist: while wearing a shield, every time you are attacked reduces cool downs on -specific skills-

1 hand focused: While wearing nothing in your offhand, Increase 1 hand damage by x% and item stats by x%

Duelist: While equipped with two weapons, counterattack the first melee attack against you by each opponent.

My ground: The first time an enemy advances within x of you for the first time in a round. Advance to melee range with them.

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I'd prefer more civil & speech talents to be added.

One of the things i didn't like about D:OS is how insignificant civil and speech mechanics are in the game. Moreover everything is thrown to "mule" characters while your main party builds pure combat ignoring the civil skills. I'm glad they overhauled the civil skills a bit. Civil skills should be a mandatory and seperate progression in cRPGs.

Womanizer: Unlocks special conversation options with female NPCs. Player can discover additional clues, hints, treasures or may coax female NPCs to carry out certain actions. Provides a +5% dmg boost to all female companions in the party. Player takes -5% less damage against female opponents.

Seductress: Unlocks special conversation options with male NPCs. Player can discover additional clues, hints, treasures or may seduce male NPCs to carry out certain actions. Provides a +5% Phy/Mag armor boost to all male companions in the party. Player deals +5% more damage against male opponents.

You shall not pass: Increases range for Attack of Opportunity by 30% and regenerate 5 Phy/Mag Armor at the start of a combat round as long as the character does not move in previous round.

Master Crafter: 5% chance to increase item quality by 1 tier when crafting an armor or weapon(i.e. crafting uncommon crits to rare quality).

Blacksmith's Romance: Equipping self-crafted Weapon or Armor grants +5% dmg or phy/mag armor respectively to said item.

Disable: Sneak attacks have a chance to disarm opponents for 2 turns(removes weapons, can only use fists). Chance increases with higher Thievery skill. Opponent gets immunity against further disarms till end of combat. Applicable only against enemies with equipped weapons.

Shifting Shadows: When character is below 50% HP and is attacked, there is a chance to evade damage and instantly teleport the character randomly anywhere within 5m radius. Will only proc once per combat turn(can be increased). Proc chance & maximum no. of procs per combat turn increases with Telekinesis skill. (Due to random nature of the teleport, characters may end up in a much worse situation, i.e. right beside an opponent or in electrified puddle)

Last edited by ImariKurumi; 10/10/16 11:48 AM.
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Originally Posted by ImariKurumi
I'd prefer more civil & speech talents to be added.

One of the things i didn't like about D:OS is how insignificant civil and speech mechanics are in the game. Moreover everything is thrown to "mule" characters while your main party builds pure combat ignoring the civil skills. I'm glad they overhauled the civil skills a bit. Civil skills should be a mandatory and seperate progression in cRPGs.

Womanizer: Unlocks special conversation options with female NPCs. Player can discover additional clues, hints, treasures or may coax female NPCs to carry out certain actions. Provides a +5% dmg boost to all female companions in the party. Player takes -5% less damage against female opponents.

Seductress: Unlocks special conversation options with male NPCs. Player can discover additional clues, hints, treasures or may seduce male NPCs to carry out certain actions. Provides a +5% Phy/Mag armor boost to all male companions in the party. Player deals +5 more damage against male opponents.

You shall not pass: Increases range for Attack of Opportunity by 30% and regenerate 5 Phy/Mag Armor at the start of a combat round as long as the character does not move in previous round.

Master Crafter: 5% chance to increase item quality by 1 tier when crafting an armor or weapon(uncommon crits to rare).

Blacksmith's Romance: Equipping self-crafted armor or weapon grants +5% dmg or phy/mag armor respectively to said item.

Disable: Sneak attacks have a chance to disarm opponents for 2 turns(removes weapons, can only use fists). Chance increases with higher Thievery skill. Opponent gets immunity against further disarms till end of combat. Applicable only against enemies with equipped weapons.



I love these and I totally agree with your opinion on the civil stuff claphands

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Good ideas ImariKurumi! I wish these were in the game already.

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@ ImariKurumi. I particularly like the crafting and you shall not pass. While the womanizer/seductress are fun. They lack punch to me. Unless those 'hidden secrets and options' are on the level of what is offered by pet pal (my personal favorite).

I do find that most talents are a bit drab, and like the look of your suggestions.

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I wrote this in a different post, but I might as well dump it here (SORT of a repost?). It fits better with the Topic~
[* is a reworked Talent. + is a new Talent.]

+Anti-Venom: Immunity to Poison/Acid. Cannot be taken with Demon, Ice King, Loyalty or Superstition.
*Bigger and Better: Gives one extra Attribute every (x) level.
*Comeback Kid: Once per combat, block a killing blow and restore the character to 50% health and remove all debuffs.
*Demon: Immunity to Flaming debuff. Cannot be taken with Anti-Venom, Ice King, Loyalty or Superstition.
*Escapist: Ignore Opportunist.
*Ice King: Immunity to Freezing debuff. Cannot be taken with Anti-Venom, Demon, Loyalty or Superstition.
*Glass Cannon: Lower total vitality by 30% instead of being vulnerable to all CC.
*Leech: Heal 5% of total health for x blood. Ideally, spending 1-3 AP on movement should fully heal you with a lot of blood nearby.
+Loyalty: Immunity to Charm. Cannot be taken with Anti-Venom, Demon, Ice King or Superstition.
+Masochist: While affected by Bleeding or Flaming debuff, deal 10% more damage and gain 1 AP.
*Morning Person: Allows the revived character to take their turn before that round of combat ends. Similar to if they delayed their turn.
+Superstition: Immunity to Cursed Debuff. Cannot be taken with Anti-Venom, Demon, Ice King or Loyalty.
+Vile: When struck, create a pool of poison at your feet. If already standing in poison, propagate the poison field.
*Walk It Off: At the start of your character's turn, spend 1 AP to remove a debuff from your character. This can happen no more than 1 time a turn.
+Weapon Expert: Equipping Weapons in combat no longer has an AP cost.
*What a Rush: While under the effects of Adrenaline or Rage, move 35% faster and gain 1 AP. Does not stack.

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I have a talent suggestion for making the hybrid classes more useful and less punishing. Right now playing a Battlemage you are punished for having to put attribute points into strength and intelligence. Having a talent that combines both strength and intelligence getting the average and then assigning it to the lower stat so you can still focus in the direction you want your hybrid class without being completely punished. (Example: if you have 20 int and 10 str with this talent you would have 20 int and 15 str). To balance it maybe you have to meet certain class/combat skills criteria.

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Originally Posted by Macca00125
I have a talent suggestion for making the hybrid classes more useful and less punishing. Right now playing a Battlemage you are punished for having to put attribute points into strength and intelligence. Having a talent that combines both strength and intelligence getting the average and then assigning it to the lower stat so you can still focus in the direction you want your hybrid class without being completely punished. (Example: if you have 20 int and 10 str with this talent you would have 20 int and 15 str). To balance it maybe you have to meet certain class/combat skills criteria.


Wouldn't that just make you put every point into int and get 1.5x the effect from it? In the current version of the game, players can already reach way over 30 in one stat, so we are talking about potentially 20+ free attribute points, compared to the 1 or 2 points from other talents...


How about a talent that gives you 3 additional skill slots, but in return there is a chance that you will activate a different one of your memorized skills instead every time you use an ability?

I would also love to see a way to decrease the cooldown of the skills - maybe that would be an option for 1h users to offset their decreased damage.

The new armor system has the potential for many armor related talents, like
-chance to apply status effects despite armor
-straight up ignoring armor at the cost of decreased damage or no status effects
-"AP/HE mode" for an archer to switch between increased damage to armor and high damage vs unarmored targets (probably better as a skill)
-restoring your own (magic?) armor with part of the damage you deal to armored targets / when you kill something
...

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Every ability tree (civic included) should have a talent associated with it. Higher requirement ones (3+, item bonuses don't count) do offer a nice reward for deep investment, where right now, there's nothing to reach for. Of course, it's alpha and end game stuff isn't implemented, but I'm just hoping it doesn't stay this way since talents have remained somewhat lackluster.

Random idea:

Idiot Savant: +6-10 Memory, -2-5 Int, Dex and Strength

Fast Metabolism: Stat boost Potions only last one or two turns, but have 1.5x-2x the effect.

Myopic Mage: -25-50% spell range, but 25-30% more effect (damage, healing, radius maybe)

Protector: You protect allies within 5-10m from 25-50% of incoming damage, taking it for yourself instead.

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Protector seems more suited as a skill book than a talent and Idiot Savant seems a bit OP, otherwise I quite like those suggestions.

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Sting: normal damage inflicted on armored characters (ie bypass armor) OR inflicts status effects even to armored enemies

First Blood: character gets first turn. in case of multiple characters/npcs with it, enemies get priority.

Berserk Mage: AP cost of magic skills is doubled, but they inflict 50% more damage.

Alchemist: all potions/ non-food items have their potency doubled

Expert Mage: all magic skills cooldowns are reduced by half

Master Sorcerer: all magic skills, including source skills, cost 1 AP (something could also be done for memory...)

Impatient: permanent Haste Effect on character

Bulwark: permanent 50% of physical armor value (cannot be decreased)

Aegis: permanent 50% of magical armor value (cannot be decreased)

Mirror: reflects all magic skills, beneficial or not, to the caster (excluding some, maybe source/void skills?)

Gushing: permanent Regen effect

Aesculapius: immune to negative status effects, all of them.

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I really should get around to posting my thoughts on some of the Talent suggestions from people. I've been meaning to do that for almost two months but I kept getting sidetracked whenever I found a Talent I wasn't sure what to say about.

In the meantime, I'll first reply to the latest one.

Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Sting: normal damage inflicted on armored characters (ie bypass armor) OR inflicts status effects even to armored enemies


Direct health damage is what kills enemies, so a no-downside to bypass armor to deal direct damage to health seems a little too strong. Using the "status effects through armor" variation is better, although most of the point of armor is to prevent statuses from landing.


Quote

First Blood: character gets first turn. in case of multiple characters/npcs with it, enemies get priority.


There are gripes about needing a lot of initiative to go before enemies, and the initiative system might need tweaks, but flat-out making initiative irrelevant might be a bit much.


Quote
Berserk Mage: AP cost of magic skills is doubled, but they inflict 50% more damage.


Interesting. I'd have to think about this. You'd be spending 2.0 times the AP to do 1.5 times the damage. It would also completely cut you off from using any 4 AP skills.


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Alchemist: all potions/ non-food items have their potency doubled


This one seems okay, though maybe it should probably apply only to potions with temporary effects (not the Blood Rose permanent attribute-boosting potion).


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Expert Mage: all magic skills cooldowns are reduced by half


I think this one would need a downside attached otherwise it would be a must-have for all primary casters - especially given the lack of other good magic-oriented Talents. Cooldowns are also the primary mechanism for balance, so a two-tier system for power would be an issue.


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Master Sorcerer: all magic skills, including source skills, cost 1 AP (something could also be done for memory...)


Broken. Too overpowered. It breaks the other balance mechanism.


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Impatient: permanent Haste Effect on character


Too overpowered. It would need a substantial downside.


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Bulwark: permanent 50% of physical armor value (cannot be decreased)

Aegis: permanent 50% of magical armor value (cannot be decreased)


I'm not entirely sure what that means. Do you mean that it boosts every point of X armor by 50%, effectively increasing your total by 50%?

What does "cannot be decreased" mean? That your armor can never go below 50%? Under the current way armor works, wouldn't that render you immune to all status effects of that type?

Quote
Mirror: reflects all magic skills, beneficial or not, to the caster (excluding some, maybe source/void skills?)


Immunity to magic damage and CC. Too OP.


Quote
Gushing: permanent Regen effect


This one might work, it depends on how much you regen per turn. Too little and it's useless. Maybe limit it to 20% or 25% at a maximum. Might be interesting to put onto some boss enemies.


Quote
Aesculapius: immune to negative status effects, all of them.


Broken. Too overpowered.

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I've had these ideas for a while, just found time to put these to text.

Quick Reflexes: +10 Initiative

My basis for the +10 is that another Talent gives you 2 Attribute points, which if put to Wits gives you +5 Initiative. But because Wits give you 2.5% crit chance to go with that, I feel like that justifies doubling the Initiative bonus to that. So, Quick Reflexes would be roughly equal to Bigger and Better, but with an exclusive focus on Initiative. It could be a decent late-game attribute for warriors with low Initiative, for example.

"Gushing" seems like a straight upgrade of Leech to me, given that it's permanent and applies everywhere. But I do like the idea. Just make the regen something like 10%, at most 15% of your max health.

I have some complaints about a few of the existing Talents as well. Ice King, Demon etc. are really underwhelming and not really worth the Talent slot, in my opinion. I think there should be an additional effect to them, thematic to their element. For example, a character with Ice King is granted additional physical / magical armor (or both) when standing on a surface of the corresponding element. Something like a 25% increase should be reasonable but not overpowered, given that the Talent doesn't make one invulnerable to the element. Demon would give the character a permanent haste while standing on fire, and so on. In correct form it would look something like:

Ice King: A character with Ice King has an extra 15% Water Resistance, but takes a 15% penalty to Fire Resistance. In addition the maximum Water Resistance is raised by 10. When standing on a frozen surface, a character with Ice King gains a 20% increase to his/her physical armour.
Incompatible with Demon.

Demon: A character with Demon has an extra 15% Fire Resistance, but takes a 15% penalty to Water Resistance. In addition the maximum Fire Resistance is raised by 10. When standing on a fiery surface, a character with Ice King gains Hasted. The effect will end when the character leaves the fiery surface.
Incompatible with Ice King.

Alternatively, one could tweak these by triggering the extra effects when Chilled / Warm, but also lowering their effects. Say, you get 10-15% increase to physdef while Chilled and Hasted when Warm. Admittedly I don't quite know how I would balance this tweak with Hasted; perhaps give it 3 rounds of Hasted instead of permanent Hasted as when standing on fire?

Last edited by Kelsier; 19/11/16 11:06 PM.
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Well the problematic 3 could always be fixed.

I also was unaware that
a) 4 AP magic skills exist
b) AP upper limit is actually hardcodeD?

A bit OP is not too bad. Especially considering enemies might get them too.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Well the problematic 3 could always be fixed.

I also was unaware that
a) 4 AP magic skills exist
b) AP upper limit is actually hardcodeD?

A bit OP is not too bad. Especially considering enemies might get them too.



In my opinion, a bunch of them need some tweaking to be balanced. My opinion is not that only the three I described simply as broken/OP are the ones which would need fixing.

I don't know if 4 AP skills exist. But neither do you. What I do know is that we're only seeing "Act 1" skills, not high-powered, up-to-10-Memory-Requiring end-game skills, some of which might require 4-6 AP. I'm also pretty certain that the 4-AP per turn and 6 AP max is indeed fixed barring specific exceptions (Glass Cannon, Adrenaline).


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Metamagic (Or Augmentor) - You may heighten a spell by adding more AP to increase its damage, 1AP adds +15% (or something similar) Limit this by requiring at least 2-3 points in any one magic school.

Elemental Augmentor- For an extra 2AP, you may substitute one elemental damage type for another, but this element must be taken from a skill you know. (So PCs could, if they had blitz bolt and fireball, cast an electric "fire" ball for 6 AP, and other combinations like that.) Of course, to balance this, perhaps require 1 point in each elemental school.

Manic Mage- Each spell you casts requires a static 2AP, no matter what, but each skill casted is RANDOM. Like a wild mage from D&D. (Also, could use an effect increase to compensate for the added randomness)

Focused Mind- Choose a school, and choose two others. The first school gains a damage (or effect) increase of +30% and range increase of +10% (numbers of course are adjustible), the other two have their range and effect reduced by the same amount.

Control Freak- All CC skills deal an extra 10% damage to targets who still have the appropriate type of armor, but do -30% damage to enemies that are unarmored, and all other skills have -10% damage.

Quickdraw- Halve (or eliminate) the AP cost for switching weapons.

Nimble Hands- All tasks that would normally provoke attacks of opportunity no longer do. Moving out of an opponent's threat range still triggers an AoO. (Requires a certain rank in thievery)

The biggest problem I see with talents right now is definitely that they're either too situational or not interesting/powerful enough for a player to want them, at least compared to some others.

Definitely give some feedback on these, I love discussing potential additions to the game, and of course, these numbers are adjustable for balancing purposes.

I could probably see myself modding this game once it comes out fully.

Last edited by Editorial; 20/11/16 08:25 AM. Reason: New idea popped into my head
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