Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Changes I'd Like To See (and some bugs) Omnibus

Here's a list of changes I'd like to see made.

Note: This list looks like a mess if you leave your style setting on ubbthreads_larian (at the bottom of the page; ubbthreads_larian_dark also doesn't work), as lists don't work in that style.

I've had to split up my post among the 1st and 4th comments as this forum cannot handle edits on medium-sized posts. Also I've had to shorten many items.

Interface

1. Camera
   1. Increase the maximum zoom-out distance. It’s currently so close that I always feel like I can’t see. I’m constantly scrolling the mouse wheel without thinking about it, trying to make it zoom out just a little more even though I’m already as zoomed out to max. I'm also frequently rotating the camera so that my characters aren’t walking toward the bottom of the screen which is where there is almost no visibility.
      • If you only make one change from this list, please make it this one. Nothing else here is as important as this. It’s probably the most-requested change for DOS1. I have friends who didn’t play DOS1 because of it (they complained they couldn’t see what was going on during combat, and couldn’t really tell where they were going out-of-combat).
   2. Add a compass on the main game screen that is only visible while I’m rotating the camera. I only have to know which way is North, so it could be just an arrow pointing north. Currently I have to scroll the camera up and watch the minimap to see if it’s scrolling North or not, then adjust as needed.
   3. Change the “center camera” function so that, when it rotates the camera, up is North. Currently, it rotates the camera so up is NorthWest, which isn’t how the maps are oriented.
   4. When edge-scrolling, make it so the mouse has to be all the way against the edge of the screen to scroll. Currently it starts scrolling when my mouse is over the hotbar, which makes using the hotbar via mouse really annoying.
   5. In combat, when using an ability, the camera (in Dynamic mode) should focus on the target of the ability, not the character using it. Nothing’s happening to the character using it unless they are also the target. With the max camera zoom as close as it is, I often can’t see what’s happening at the target because the camera’s focused on the user.
   6. Don’t recenter the camera after performing a quicksave. I quicksave often, and it’s annoying having the camera pan and spin around each time. I will never quicksave to fix the camera position.
      • Also don’t have it cancel Tactical mode, as it currently does.
2. Arena
   1. When going into Arena, the default tab is always LAN. It should be Online the first time, and then whatever you used last would be the default going forward.
   2. When hosting an online Arena match, don’t take me out of general chat. Have it so both chats appear, so I can still talk to people while waiting for someone to join.
      • Have a way to separate my arena lobby chat from global chat, but have both appear in the same place. Like in MMORPGs how party chat is separated from general chat using /1 or /p, but both appear in the same space.
   3. In the lobby settings, show whether it’s Online or LAN, in case you make the wrong type, so you can see that.
   4. When in a lobby, add a way to get back to the Arena screen. Currently if you leave an Arena lobby, your only option is to go back to the main menu.
3. Transparency Area
   1. Currently, when walking under things, you have a tiny hole through which you can see your character. It’s big enough to see your character, but not big enough to see what’s around them. This hole needs to be greatly expanded. Optimally, anything between the camera and my character should be mostly translucent if not completely transparent.
   2. Tall trees and other things that you’ll only see when they’re blocking your view should just be always translucent. Usually when they're on-screen, they're all I can see.
4. Crafting
   1. Allow me to put the same stack in both slots for crafting. Currently, if I want to make, say, thread, I have to split the stack of hairs and put each stack separately into each slot before combining them. It would be better if I didn’t have to split hairs over it.
   2. Allow me to bring up the Combine window by clicking on an anvil or mobile kitchen or whatever stationary world-object I can craft with. Currently, you have to drag the item from your inventory onto it, even though when you mouse over it you get the gears, suggesting it can be used. That’s not intuitive.
   3. Allow me to combine items from any party member’s bag, rather than just the character doing the combining. Currently I have to cancel out of the crafting window, go into the bags, move things around, then go back into the crafting window.
5. Settings
   1. Put mouse-over tooltips on each item so you know what that option does, so you know why you might want to change it.
   2. Add an option to always skip the opening cinematics and flying logos.
   3. In Controls, what is “Grave”? I don’t have a Grave button on my keyboard.
   4. Allow the buttons for Show World Tooltips and Show Sneak Cones to be toggles, so you don’t have to hold them down constantly.
   5. Allow a timed auto-save, that saves every 5-10 minutes (or however many the player chooses) while not in dialogue or combat.
6. Hotbar
   1. To the left of the hotbar are some buttons that bring up different panes. The button for Inventory brings up the Character Sheet as well as your Inventory, and displays the shortcut key for Character Pane, but is called Inventory. In the keybinds, there is a button for Character Sheet and another for Inventory. The latter brings up only the bags, which is what the Inventory button at the bottom should do. There should be another button added for Character Sheet, or an indication that that button does both.
   2. If I drag an inventory item (such as a potion) off my hotbar, only the icon should be removed. My character shouldn’t throw the item from my inventory to the ground. Currently I can’t seem to remove inventory items from my hotbar.

New users have temporarily restricted privileges because of spammers.

Lots of great feedback here, but



That, although I'd go a bit further. The amount of "immersion" it adds is countered out more that double by the amount of irritation which ensues by being distracted by repeated dialogue loops. A lot of time players sit around NPC's it's trying to decide what stuff to buy, what skills to equip, what equipment to equip, or what stuff to craft.

Larian, if you add voice acting to the game, save yourself some money and the players some irritation and write this down, font size and all:

NO VOICE ACTING FOR LOOPED NPC CHATTER - EVER!

Voice-act everything else in the game if you want, but never, EVER, EVER put in voice acting for looped NPC chatter. One-off chatter (as in in happens only once) is fine.

Agreed on that big red text there, haha, barter/chatter that is looped or played multiple times should be text; it's there for flavour, not attention.

[usurping this comment since I severely underestimated how short posts can be on this forum and remain editable]

Gameplay

1. Less Looped NPC Chatter
   1. Currently there’s no voice acting, so this isn’t a problem yet, but I know you want to do it, and I’m telling you not to, before you get the chance. In DOS1, NPCs would spout random lines constantly, every ~30 seconds. They would never shut up. It was even worse in the Enhanced Edition (particularly due to the worse voice acting) which I couldn’t even play because of it. Please do not make the NPC chatter happen so frequently. It’s beyond irritating. At least make the minimum loop time 60 seconds, although 90-120 would be preferable.
   2. Also please cut off the looped chatter when I’m actually in a dialogue with someone. I mean, don’t even let the current loop finish. Suspend it or something. In DOS1 it was really annoying hearing looped chatter in the background while I was in dialogue with another NPC.
2. New Conversations With The Same NPC
   1. If I talk to an NPC, I can have a complete and fully resolved conversation with them. Then, if I switch to another character in my party and talk to them again, it’s like the first conversation never happened. While it’s interesting to see the different effects different options and characters can have, this is also exploitable. For instance, when I came across the well where you can give the dead guys money for some epic stuff, I went through this exchange with each of my characters, netting me some hefty upgrades. It didn’t make sense that I could talk to them again after they’d passed on, but each time I interacted with the well with a different character, the conversation would start again from scratch, and I’d get the stuff each time. There are probably other ways this can be exploited that I didn’t think of.
3. Tutorials
   1. The tutorial should include Examine (from right-clicking on a character) without having to get Loremaster first. It should also note that there you can get descriptions of the status effects on that character, in addition to other information.
   2. The tutorial should also point out the chat and combat log toggles in the corners of the screen. I found the chat one early on, but I didn't see the combat log button until mostly-through my second play through (and I was looking for something else when I found it).
4. Enemy Combat AI
   1. If a melee enemy is unable to path to your location, it should paths that would be available if not for destructibles, and if it finds one, it should attack the destructibles on that path. This would dramatically reduce barrel abuse.

Bugs

1. Character Creation
   1. I customized my character to have Hydromancy, Pyromancy, and Aerotheurge. While I had spells of the first two, I didn’t have any Air spells, but I did have Fossil Strike, which is a Geomancy spell. While Fossil Strike has been very useful, I shouldn’t be able to have it on that character.
2. Controls
   1. “Toggle Information” changes the mouse cursor, but it doesn’t seem to do anything else. Also, it only changes the mouse cursor while I’m holding it, which suggests it’s not actually a toggle. I don’t actually know what it’s supposed to do, but it doesn’t seem to do it.
3. Crafting
   1. If I combine a “Needle and Thread” with a “Pixie Dust”, it says “Unknown Item” and I don’t get anything, but I still lose those two components.
4. Abilities
   1. The description for Summon Flaming Totem says that it summons a Fire Elemental, and at the bottom says that it can cast a spell. However, it summons a Fire Ward, which can move, but can’t do anything else (it doesn’t even provide fire resistance like it did in D:OS1).
   2. Hail Storm’s AoE diameter is larger than its reticle indicates. Even when I put it what seems a safe enough distance from my party members, it still hits them. Considering the power of the spell, the AoE diameter should be reduced to match the reticle rather than the other way around.
5. Items
   1. There’s an item called “Letter to Mother” which, considering it’s from someone’s mother, should be called “Letter from Mother”.
   2. Bedrolls do not have a “Use” option in their right-click menu. You can use them if you place them on your hotbar and then click them there, but you can’t use them for your inventory pane.
   3. Every time you save and then load your game, for each Blood Rose Elixir effect on you, you gain +1 to each of your stats. My lowest stat is currently 50.
   4. After drinking a cup/mug of something, you lose the cup/mug.
6. Panes
   1. On the Character Sheet, the dodge chance I gain from my gear (helmet and boots, +3% Dodge each) isn’t showing up. It currently shows me as having a 0% dodge chance. I don’t know if that means the gear isn’t actually giving me the dodge chance it claims, or it just isn’t being included in the displayed number.
7. Buttons
   1. The button for the Combat Log is partially off-screen. It looks like it's about 20% off-screen (using the chat log button for comparison). Makes it harder to notice than it already is.

Great feedback, I like many of your ideas.


@Stabbey
I like looped animal sounds though.

I liked looped voiced npc chatter, it made the game felt more alive.

Maybe your post is too long, I have the same problem in one of my threads with very long texts.

Good suggestions (and a very readable form), many of them have already been made by others, but the more often they're posted the better. And it's quite useful to have a more complete player perspective than unrelated fragments.

I'd like to add some notes to your gameplay point 1 'Less Looped NPC Chatter':

In D:OS 1 automated dialogs and voiced text display was locally scripted for each NPC. Muting background NPCs during dialog shouldn't be a problem I think. But adjusting the frequency of NPC chatter is absolutely necessary and difficult at the same time if you want to make (voiced) text display and automated dialogs fit the NPCs' visible actions. Therefore, I suppose, there's no global control over these things in D:OS 1 (except the hearing distance of those voices to the position of the camera).
Globally muting NPCs for a defined time would imply that NPCs perform their actions sometimes voiced, sometimes muted and that there's no individual frequency for each NPC. Some characters (vendors for example) might want to attract customers, another character gives commands. A global solution would reduce the experience here. And there would have to be a solution for unique voiced text (mostly of story NPCs): sometimes they would be muted due to their everyday chatter and wouldn't voice this unique text.
--> So the options would be either to except certain NPCs from global muting or to rely on local scripting, as D:OS 1 does. I consider the second option much better for an RPG and an interesting game world but, of course, more laborious.

The reasons for this are obvious: To make the game world both alive and not too noisy would often require more actions for NPCs to compensate the lower degree of NPC acoustic. A game world (designed like D:OS) without sensory input (acoustically or visually, in the last case requiring movement to engage attention and simulate a living world, otherwise it would be received like a picture which would be a specific design choice like in PoE) wouldn't feel alive, but static and inanimate. So NPCs must have more actions or, in some cases, at least show a reason for being so quiet (sleeping, sitting, relaxing, reading...). - So a game world that makes less use of voices has to do a bit more of scripting if it wants to be interesting (unless it has a different aesthetic and overall design). I'd like to see more NPC actions in general (more than D:OS 1 had), telling little stories about theirselves and the game world by interacting with each other, with objects of the game world and by reacting to the player.

Just reading your answer, Stabbey: I wouldn't go without any NPC voices for looping actions. I liked to hear conversations between Esmeralda and Donovan, the drill sergeant shouting commands, the Bellegarettes adoring Bellegar, and probably many players did; it's one of the great aspects of D:OS 1, in my opinion (especially of Classic Version) - it would also add to D:OS 2 I think, provided that the frequency gets significantly reduced and, maybe, that there's a bit more variety of voiced text/automated dialog for NPCs, if possible. Since there's no full voice acting this may not be too costly.

You know there's a programmed delay between the start times of looped NPC dialogue, and it seems to be universal. They wouldn't have to program in any mutes or anything. They just have to increase the delay. It's probably one value stored in a variable, or perhaps simply hard-coded. All they'd need to do to reduce the chatter would be to increase the number dictating the delay. Changing the delay to begin at the end of the loop instead of the beginning would definitely take more work than that, but a simply increase in delay (without any other changes) would probably be as simple as changing a single number in the code.

While the looped NPC chatter may make the world feel more alive, the frequency with which the NPCs speak makes it seem less alive and more like broken automation. I don't feel like these are people. They're more like robots. Makes it feel more like an automated factory than a living, breathing world. It's also just irritating as

What are you referring to? I don't see a delay between the dialog loops except in the character scripts.

What are you looking at? And how are you looking at it? I don't want to give a speculative response if I can give an informed one instead.

In the first place at the NPC behaviour in game, regarding their character scripts: when NPCs are supposed to start an automated dialog or display voiced text according to the script and if these actions appear in game as expected; from what I see, voiced text (automated dialog and voiced text display) can 'loop' (i. e. be started again) without delay, so I concluded there is no delay between start times or - maybe - to short to be noticed. I haven't found a story script that would allow to set delay times for NPCs, so if such a function exists it's probably hardcoded. - But even if there was such a function the 'issues' I described above would remain (some extra actions necessary to 'compensate' the silence in situations that aren't supposed to be 'silent', extra 'silent actions' between voiced or more lively actions, and no fully individualized frequency of voiced text loop).

What do you have in mind when you speak of 'delay between start times'?

In D:OS1 (which is what we're talking about, since they haven't added voice acting to D:OS2 yet), when you're walking around near NPCs (or, more accurately, have your camera near them), they talk. They have a loop of lines they just spout off repeatedly. The loop never stops. However, between each line they say, there's a delay when they're not talking. I didn't actually time it, but it seems like they start saying one of their lines every 30 seconds. This indicates that there's a programmed delay between when they say one line and when they say the next line in their loop. If there was no delay, they'd have to put silence into the audio files, which would be a lot more effort (and disk space), so it's fair to assume they programmed a delay instead.

For instance, say you're hanging out near the cheese vendor. You're just standing there, not doing anything, or sorting through your inventory. Suddenly, without provocation, the cheese vendor exclaims "Be the big cheese on your block with a wheel of the good stuff!" Then he stops talking. Doesn't say anything else, and you keep doing what you were doing, still standing there. Then, a short time later, the cheese vendor says "No one has as many friends as the man with many cheeses!" You didn't do anything, he just said it. There was definitely some time between these two lines. He didn't go straight from one to the other without pause. And here, after his second line, he's silent once again... until 20-30 seconds later when he says "Not in the mood for cheese? That excuse has more holes than a slice of this fine Gorgombert!" You've still not interacted with the man. You didn't express any lack of mood for cheese. He just said it. And once again, he is not talking. Then about 20 seconds later "Be the big cheese on your block with a wheel of the good stuff!" Now, you've heard this line before, about a minute and a half ago. You're detecting a pattern. Sure enough, another 20-30 seconds goes by and "No one has as many friends as the man with many cheeses!" More time, and "Not in the mood for cheese? That excuse has more holes than a slice of this fine Gorgombert!" And it goes on like this until you leave. And it's not just the cheese vendor. No, it's every NPC near you. They are all doing this. They all have their own lines, their own loops, but they're all doing it. They're not all saying their lines simultaneously and then going silent, of course. No, they're offset from each other. But the pattern is there, nonetheless. And it never ends.

There is definitely a delay between each line of the each character's loop, and it seems to be the same for every character. All I'm asking is that the length of the silence between these lines (the delay) be extended. Since the delays seem to be the same length for every character, this suggests that they're all using the same number for the delay, so all the devs would have to do is increase that one number, and suddenly all the characters would have longer bouts of silence.

As I said, everything is locally scripted in character scripts. The sleeping times for many NPCs are similar, but they're all locally scripted for each NPC. And since most NPCs don't have many actions to perform and sleeping times are very short - maybe to compensate the lack of actions and the lack of different text to say (both would have required more time and money) - NPCs repeat their actions and so their texts in high frequency, so it appears as 'looping' text whereas, in fact, they just repeat actions which the texts/dialogs are part of.

To give an example (the cheese vendor, of course):

This is the only action block he has:



As you see there's a chance of 33% that he starts to say his dialog (choosing different texts that are stored in the dialog), then sleeping time (doing nothing except playing the 'still' animation), then choosing one of two available points to move to (50% chance) and at the end 'currentAction' is set priority 0. After that the priority is set to 1100 again, since it's the only reaction in the script for him to choose from.

And that's how all NPCs work. No global delay set by Osiris or the engine itself.

Therefore I have modified almost every relevant character script for my QuietDayOnTheMarket mod to address this issue. Although it's really a relief to play with it, I always feel the need of a much more living world, a living world that even works without much background voices. That's what I'm working on for about half a year now.

I understand now. I think seeing the code really helps to that end. I thought you were arguing that there was no delay at all.

Any which way they do it (which apparently isn't a global delay), there definitely needs to be a longer minimum length of silence between the lines of monologue. Since they haven't yet implemented the apparently random NPC chatter, they could still make them not talk so much.

Honestly, even if they did have more lines of monologue (which certainly would be less annoying), the frequency of it would still be annoying. I also feel like the frequency lowers the realism, as I don't think people are shouting quite that much in a real market (and I never hear people checking their shopping lists so audibly). Even the guys selling water out of coolers on city sidewalks aren't shouting that much, and they get way more foot traffic going by.

Absolutely. As long as the player is supposed to visit locations several times and to stay there for a while the background voices and the balance of silence and 'noice' have to be treated with care (and, as you say, be more appropiate in many cases). Would be great if they had more time for D:OS 2 to also add more actions and interactions for NPCs, instead of just reducing the chatter, but the latter must have higher priority in that regard (independent from the degree of variety of spoken text).

I trimmed down the OP until it finally stopped timing out on edits (it really can't be bigger than it is, as small as it is now). I put the rest of the list in the 1st and 4th comments. If I'd have known how limited this forum was, I'd have reserved more comments. I might just start a new thread as version 2 of this one so I can keep it better organized. I'll have to split it up a lot more, as I'd like to be able to add items from other people's posts, complete with links to their posts. No gameplay balance items, of course. I only want to list things that would improve the gameplay experience regardless of content.

There is a 3 day time limit on editing posts.

The error timing out when editing long posts is due to the forum censor function (used to block spam; unfortunately, there is no way to only have it applied to new user accounts). I went through the censor list and cleared out some of the entries no longer needed, so that should help a bit.
I can combine the posts if you wish, or you can PM me with anything to add to the OP or replace it with.

I'll just start a new thread with items split up among the comments, with more comments reserved. I can probably split up the Interface section, as almost everything I have would go into that as it is, so it doesn't make sense to keep it as one section (particularly since there's only two other sections). I'm probably going to wait until after the next patch to do so (whenever that comes out) since I'll probably need to update existing items at that point, anyway.