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Originally Posted by LordCrash
How is it that so many people like durability?


I haven't seen much evidence that many of the people in this thread actually do.

I don't really believe that many people outside of the thread do either. The only reason we keep seeing it is because it's often a convenient (lazy) way to solve certain design problems. For instance padding out a skill system, or using it as a money sink to try to keep an economy in line. Or both at the same time.

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Originally Posted by LordCrash
How is it that so many people like durability?

I dunno really. I seem to do that sometimes: "I should like this thing", then when I stop to think about I realise that, actually, no I don't like it much. So then I stop doing it.

Okay, I'm actually thinking about the dubious quality products of a large burger chain now, but y'know.


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Yeah... no, the idea that your equipment can permanently break based on a % check is insane imo, it would cause so much stress on the player's part. It should be that, imo, the lower your skill in repair, the lower cumulative amount of repair per click. Obviously, the higher your skill the higher the cumulative number. So say your sword has 20/50 durability, and your skill in repair is 1, each "repair" you do to the item is an rng between, say, 13-17. At repair 2, the % increase is something like 20 or 30%, so that is a 16-20 repair.

Better yet, you may find a "golden hammer" (remember this is a Divinity game, comedy/silly elements are allowed) that ignores your repair skill and allows a straight-up 100% durability heal, but it's a one-time use item. Alternatively, you could just sell the golden hammer for money, buy a bunch of normal repair hammers, then get more exp.

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I hope they delete that "feature". It doesn't add anything to the game. You can repair without any costs and only have to watch if the durability is low. It is also weird that skills using your weapon don't harm the durability but auto-attack does.

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Originally Posted by Plumpbiscuit
Yeah... no, the idea that your equipment can permanently break based on a % check is insane imo, it would cause so much stress on the player's part. It should be that, imo, the lower your skill in repair, the lower cumulative amount of repair per click. Obviously, the higher your skill the higher the cumulative number. So say your sword has 20/50 durability, and your skill in repair is 1, each "repair" you do to the item is an rng between, say, 13-17. At repair 2, the % increase is something like 20 or 30%, so that is a 16-20 repair.


Yes, please replace the slightly inconvenient and occasionally annoying mechanic with an absolutely terribly annoying and disruptive one. Because clicking more is more fun right? /sarcasm

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Personally, I think the magic/physical armour mechanic is a brilliantly novel idea, with huge room for evolution. I even wouldn't mind if they split the the magic armour into fire/ice/electric armour etc, and bring in enemies with highly variable 'elemental HPs' that means you really need to diversify to meet the challenge - but I digress!

We're here to say that durability is effectively crap. It looks like mostly everyone agrees it serves no value, strategic or otherwise. It's just a gimmick from some bygone era of game design, when someone reckoned it would be 'realistic' to have the items degrade, and someone else just rolled with it, without giving it any further thought.

Since then, it's become a cliche in rpgs, something that had been done from way back when - so the philosophy becomes: we have to do it now too, right? Because we're making a game with swords and shields, and remember that last game where the shields and swords degraded? And the one before that?

Hopefully they ditch it. Nuisance as is, hopeless as anything else.

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I have nothing important to add -- just wanted to caste my vote to remove durability from the game.

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How to make repair skill interesting
======================
-Proposal 1
- A well maintained sword gains a status effect like 'keen edge' which adds +2 to hit. Items with a keen edge can be poisoned and have other effects added to them. In contrast a poorly maintained sword can't have effects added but hits as per normal. This varies by weapon.

- An armour set kept in top condition adds +10 to armour rating and +1 to intimidation rating in conversations. Once durability drops below 75% overall you lose this bonus.

-Proposal 2
- Allow repair skill to also give you the option to recycle/deconstruct items for component crafting parts. These parts are more likely to be valuable the higher your skill level in repair.

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As it is now, durability should be removed cause it adds no value to the game. Agreed. And it seems, besides, most people are no interested in micromanaging their items.

I still think there should be a slight chance an item would break if extensively exposed to environmental effects such as fire, poison, frost, etc... Then it could become junk and if brought to a blacksmith, reforged into something. Or sold to merchants if the player so desires.

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In its current state this feature is a nusciance; I "waste" time after big fights to go through all my characters items to repair them.

I think this feature should be an option for the player or game master to set.

You can make this feature more strategic by placing a chance of failure with the repair, dependent upon the skill level of the person repairing the item. If implemented this way, would we automatically repair after every fight when something is 47/50? Maybe we wait until it's 10/50 before chancing a repair that has a small chance to fail and render the item useless. Maybe there are NPC shopkeepers who not only sell items but can fix items for a fee?

Just some possibilities for making this feature a viable part of the game.

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ISTR that was one of the ideas put forward in this recent discussion which you may want to check out.

Edit: they've now been merged.

Last edited by vometia; 04/10/16 07:40 AM.

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it is a waste of time.

at the moment it does not take anything but time.(i think you need a hammer laying in your inventory)
maybe add a chance of failure or maybe a cost like wood,leather,iron.

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Repairing is, I guess even philosophically, a complete waste of time.

You have to click on every single item individually and click Repair, so they might as well just add a Repair All button. And if they just add one button to repair all items, they might as well just not even make you repair items at all.

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Originally Posted by smokey
Looks to me like most people get the original argument. We're talking about the entertainment value of durability here - is it a strategic challenge that provides any kind of challenge? The answer is a unanimous 'no'. Carrying around repair hammers = yawn. What we're saying is - if it's to stay, how can we make it actually interesting?

Anyway, I think I've said all I can on the topic, using the ideas of others above who've given this a bit of thought. In a nutshell, I can't see any reason for it to stay outside of combat - repair hammers and/or looking for a repair shopkeeper is drudge. It's like the kind of task you might get on a Monday morning in work. The kind of thing that makes you close the game and do something else with your precious free hours.

Easiest solution is to drop it. No one complains, no one feels the loss, the game is all the better without it. Hardest solution is to keep it and invest enough thinking into it to turn it into something that's actually enjoyable and contributes to the strategy. I vote for the former (simply because it requires less intellectual effort, and the game has more interesting mechanics already that only stand to benefit from extra time/resources/thinking).


The only kind of RPGs (or RPG-likes) that I played where durability added something to the experience were games with time or space in the backpack intended as limited resources (Ultima Underworld, Betrayal at Krondor, Jagged Alliance, etc..).
In a game stripped of any other survival element like D:OS, durability simply doesn't work. Same goes with item identification.
I'll gladly drop both...

Last edited by Baudolino05; 04/10/16 09:27 AM.
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
At the moment, Durability adds nothing. Repairs are both infrequent and cost nothing after you get your first hammer, making it pretty pointless. I have two ideas:

1) Eliminate Durability completely.



Yes ♥ this Yes ♥ Also I have not found a hammer to repair? I just have tongs.

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Originally Posted by Ellary
Yes ♥ this Yes ♥ Also I have not found a hammer to repair? I just have tongs.

I think that's just part of the game's rather random loot: I've now built up quite an impressive collection of repair hammers, though I suspect at the cost of finding actually useful stuff!


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Ellary
Yes ♥ this Yes ♥ Also I have not found a hammer to repair? I just have tongs.

I think that's just part of the game's rather random loot: I've now built up quite an impressive collection of repair hammers, though I suspect at the cost of finding actually useful stuff!


Oh, turns out I do have hammers. but I use them and they vanish. Going to stick to the tongs, they seem to stay even after use ^_^ hope that doesn't get taken away. Personally my durability seems to go down insanely fast after a battle and I am not making much gold. So the tongs are a life saver.

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Originally Posted by Ellary
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Ellary
Yes ♥ this Yes ♥ Also I have not found a hammer to repair? I just have tongs.

I think that's just part of the game's rather random loot: I've now built up quite an impressive collection of repair hammers, though I suspect at the cost of finding actually useful stuff!


Oh, turns out I do have hammers. but I use them and they vanish. Going to stick to the tongs, they seem to stay even after use ^_^ hope that doesn't get taken away. Personally my durability seems to go down insanely fast after a battle and I am not making much gold. So the tongs are a life saver.


Hmmm, I have not had my trusty hammer disappear yet. That's pretty weird. Also, have you found any NPCs that will repair stuff for you? I can't find any. And I totally want Nebora to do it for me, so I can pay her. It's the least I could do after all she's done for me =D

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Originally Posted by SlamPow
Originally Posted by Ellary
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Ellary
Yes ♥ this Yes ♥ Also I have not found a hammer to repair? I just have tongs.

I think that's just part of the game's rather random loot: I've now built up quite an impressive collection of repair hammers, though I suspect at the cost of finding actually useful stuff!


Oh, turns out I do have hammers. but I use them and they vanish. Going to stick to the tongs, they seem to stay even after use ^_^ hope that doesn't get taken away. Personally my durability seems to go down insanely fast after a battle and I am not making much gold. So the tongs are a life saver.


Hmmm, I have not had my trusty hammer disappear yet. That's pretty weird. Also, have you found any NPCs that will repair stuff for you? I can't find any. And I totally want Nebora to do it for me, so I can pay her. It's the least I could do after all she's done for me =D



Most of the NPCs hate me @_@ guess it's the collars. It's only the lil hammers that say repair hammer that vanished. I was repairing one of the daggers you get from that weirdo who has flesh golems in cages.

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Originally Posted by Ellary


Most of the NPCs hate me @_@ guess it's the collars. It's only the lil hammers that say repair hammer that vanished. I was repairing one of the daggers you get from that weirdo who has flesh golems in cages.


D: I refuse to believe that anyone could hate you. It's totally their problem for not liking you enough!

But I wonder why your repair hammer disappeared. Mine's still goin' strong, yo. Are you at least able to use the tongs to repair instead? :O

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