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Originally Posted by Ayvah
They may not be as civilized as their wardrobe and cities imply.

The Roman empire envisioned themselves as the most civilized power in the known world although they were pretty brutal and intolerant at times and although they held slaves.

Everything is a question of perspective. wink

Last edited by LordCrash; 26/09/16 11:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
Although I understand that the lizards are fond of slavery? And the Red Prince mentioned that if he were anything but a Prince, then he would have been killed at birth.

They may not be as civilized as their wardrobe and cities imply.

(Also true of many humans.)


In the early kickstarter snippet about them as a race, I recall it mentioning that they actively partake in selective breeding to cultivate physical traits that they consider ideal. That seems to fit very well with what the Red Prince implies.

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Ayvah, please pay attention. We were talking about appearance. Must I quote my original argument again?

Originally Posted by Ayvah
The lizards have sharp claws, and a large mouth filled with carnivorous teeth. This is indisputably violent, therefore savage.


"violent: using force to hurt or attack; used to describe a situation or event in which people are hurt or killed; sudden and powerful" [Cambridge Dictionary]

If we accept the Cambridge Dictionary as a credible source, it becomes obvious that the mere existence of claws or teeth on someone is independent of the quality of being violent. Please use a dictionary if you are uncertain of the meaning of some words.

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Lizards look great.

The only strange thing about lizards is that they get tail boners when they speak or attack, which looks a bit awkward to me... think

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Originally Posted by IcySteps
Ayvah, please pay attention. We were talking about appearance. Must I quote my original argument again?

I think they are looking at it from a very human-centric perspective. Humans evolved the way that we have mostly in spite of our lack of natural weapons, and in this case they are attributing it as a desirable sign of civility and not something that 'just happened' and that we had to deal with.

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I think you are making a good point, Nivv. It doesn't seem to me that Ayvah is arguing along the same line though.

I think that many could consider an individual with sharp claws and clearly visible fangs menacing, which could lead to an air of unease. This stressful atmosphere is hardly conductive for serene interactions, so some could find it objectionable.

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I disagree. They look very civilized to me and their general appearance is by far my favorite of the races. :)

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Originally Posted by IcySteps
Ayvah, please pay attention. We were talking about appearance. Must I quote my original argument again?

You're saying you're talking about appearance, but you contradict this by trying to demonstrate that these words cannot be used to describe appearance.

The function of sharp claws, the function of sharp teeth, the function of breathing fire on your enemies is violence.

The effect of seeing tools that appear designed for violence is that they appear violent. Seeing a soldier armed with an AK-47 looks violent. Many songs censor the word "gun" for their radio version due to this truism. Of course, everything is subjective, but this concept should not be controversial.

If you're determined to continue splitting hairs and need me to look at a dictionary then I can refer you to Dictionary.com, where the meaning includes "characterised by an uncontrolled, strong, rough force"

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Ayvah, after reading my recent reply to you, I feel that I need to add the following: It was never my intention to sound disrespectful. Please accept my apologies if I have offended you in any way!

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
You're saying you're talking about appearance, but you contradict this by trying to demonstrate that these words cannot be used to describe appearance.
This is just not true! Please refer to my earlier posts.

Originally Posted by Ayvah
The function of sharp claws, the function of sharp teeth, the function of breathing fire on your enemies is violence.
I guess a spoon is also "violent", because it can be used to gauge eyes. It is one of the spoon's function, after all.

Also, are you arguing that claws are "characterised by an uncontrolled, strong, rough force"?

I am done here, Ayvah. I see no point in continuing this discussion.

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Originally Posted by IcySteps
I guess a spoon is also "violent", because it can be used to gauge eyes. It is one of the spoon's function, after all.

If that's the function you associate with a spoon then sure. That's exactly why it's subjective.

I have not taken any offense. Thank you for your consideration.

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I love the way the lizards look. They're one of the first animal races in recent memory that don't simply look like a human with animal features (furry). They have a really unique body structure and posing that's both elegant and at the same time a little feral. TBH when I look at new fantasy titles these days I look at what sort of race lineup they have first. So many generic races on display or half assed attempts at something "unique". But I think Larian nailed it with this race and I look forward to playing them.

Last edited by Cloudrunner; 27/09/16 08:03 AM.
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Originally Posted by Cloudrunner
They're one of the first animal races in recent memory that don't simply look like a human with animal features (furry).

Uh... These lizards definitely fit the archetype of furry (or scalie, in this case).

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
Originally Posted by Cloudrunner
They're one of the first animal races in recent memory that don't simply look like a human with animal features (furry).

Uh... These lizards definitely fit the archetype of furry (or scalie, in this case).


No, what I'm talking about would be like the Argonians from Skyrim. Literally a human with a lizard head and tail attached to them. Complete with boobs for some reason. Or like the Worgen in WoW, again look like supermodels with a dog face plopped on them. If you're going to make an animal-like race at least go the extra step and give them a unique body structure. That's why I like the lizards in this game.

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Honestly, the only issue I have with them is that long neck. It's just begging for someone to decapitate them. Otherwise, I have no problem with them.

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Originally Posted by Cloudrunner
No, what I'm talking about would be like the Argonians from Skyrim. Literally a human with a lizard head and tail attached to them. Complete with boobs for some reason. Or like the Worgen in WoW, again look like supermodels with a dog face plopped on them. If you're going to make an animal-like race at least go the extra step and give them a unique body structure. That's why I like the lizards in this game.

They used to look somewhat different in Morrowind. I remember that guy in Solstheim (or maybe it was a khajiit, but the same applies) moaning about not being able to find any boots that fit.

But then Oblivion happened and they gave them human bodies with novelty heads and a tail.


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Cloudrunner
No, what I'm talking about would be like the Argonians from Skyrim. Literally a human with a lizard head and tail attached to them. Complete with boobs for some reason. Or like the Worgen in WoW, again look like supermodels with a dog face plopped on them. If you're going to make an animal-like race at least go the extra step and give them a unique body structure. That's why I like the lizards in this game.

They used to look somewhat different in Morrowind. I remember that guy in Solstheim (or maybe it was a khajiit, but the same applies) moaning about not being able to find any boots that fit.

But then Oblivion happened and they gave them human bodies with novelty heads and a tail.


What happened was cost cutting measures with some thinly veiled lore to excuse it. Nevermind the Khajiit and Argonians, remember how all the elves looked exactly the same (basically like wood elves?). That was a hell of a change after coming off of Morrowind and seeing the regal Altmer and brooding Dunmer suddenly looking like Santa's elves.

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I Like the lizards, especially the cool colours that you can choose. I've got no issue with the long necks, but it would be nice if you could choose the height of the character in creation. My female lizard warrior towered over everyone, even the Red Prince.

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I also liked the fact that other races didn't take to them as well as they did humans (though the fact that humans don't really like anything other than what looks like them is a pretty bleak (but honest) take on humans in general.)

I know it wasn't just for humans v humans, every race tended to stick to their preference for the same race. Like with reality, you get some NPC who are willing to look past the race issue whereas others are just bigots, though in some cases this is justified (i.e. the lizards being slavers and Elves being cannibals.)


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The Lizards are my favorite looking race in the game so far. So colorful! I wish the game let me run an all-lizard party.

My only objection is that they are called..."lizards". So mundane. I wish they'd spruce that up a little and name them "Scalekin", or Saurians or something a little more interesting.

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