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Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Ayvah] #591846
05/10/16 04:07 PM
05/10/16 04:07 PM
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aj0413 Offline
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Lmao actually where's Limz? He did want another fight/debate and he just missed it

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: aj0413] #591848
05/10/16 04:13 PM
05/10/16 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: aj0413

But yeah, that's what I was basing my argument about it not really being sexism when it comes to employee evaluation; just some biology and stuff.


Well, I'll just leave you with this little excerpt from the study which addresses exactly that:

"For example, Budig and England (2001) examine differences in work
patterns between mothers and nonmothers and find that interruptions
from work, working part-time, and decreased seniority/experience collec-
tively explain no more than about one-third of the motherhood penalty.
They also show that “mother-friendly” job characteristics (i.e., differences
in the type of jobs mothers and nonmothers choose) explain very little of
the penalty. Similarly, Anderson et al. (2003) find that human capital,
occupational, and household resource variables (e.g., number of adults in
the household) collectively account for 24% of the total wage penalty for
one child and 44% for women with two or more children. Likewise,
Waldfogel and Meyer (2000) find that occupational controls do not elim-
inate the penalty. As Budig and England (2001) conclude, the remaining
wage gap likely arises either because employed mothers are somehow less
productive at work than nonmothers or because employers discriminate
against mothers (or some combination of the two processes)."

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: SlamPow] #591850
05/10/16 04:17 PM
05/10/16 04:17 PM
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Well that's interesting: probably a bit of both i would guess. Moms can't dedicate as much to work after all and Career moms are relaituvely new when compared against the weight of all of history

*shrug* so a bit of sexism is there, probably. I know Japan refers to moms working as something shameful or something I think I heard somewhere -> that's an extreme case of old cultural carry ivers

Last edited by aj0413; 05/10/16 04:20 PM.
Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Ayvah] #591852
05/10/16 04:20 PM
05/10/16 04:20 PM
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Please lock this thread.

I'm not sure this discussion will go anywhere good.

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Ayvah] #591853
05/10/16 04:20 PM
05/10/16 04:20 PM
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Sure is a lot of videogame discussion here.

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: aj0413] #591854
05/10/16 04:21 PM
05/10/16 04:21 PM
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Alrighty, well, this has been fun. But I feel that I've successfully proved my point. That, and I gotta go play DOS2 with a good friend of mine! grin

Cya!

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Klavi] #591855
05/10/16 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Klavi
Sure is a lot of videogame discussion here.


O.o this stopped being a video game thread page one :P

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Nyanko] #591867
05/10/16 05:10 PM
05/10/16 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nyanko
All these gender talks and topics are just nonsense in my opinion. Players who really enjoy gaming don't care about those issues. Games are fantasy worlds and they have nothing to do with reality. And as long as we will have some people out there trying desperately to make their own gender everyday fights being a thing in our games, we will have such stupid and pointless threads all over the internet.

If you don't like a game because you find it offensive, don't play it. But please, stop bringing your own life issues into the fray and create some drama where there should not be any. We don't want it and we don't need it.


I tend to side with the general sentiment put forth in your post, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that video games have nothing to do with reality. Like any art form, story telling through video games inevitibly draws from the artist's/writer's own experiences and views and helps to shape those of others as well.

I think what you meant to say is that we shouldn't take the setting(s) or dressing(s) of the fictional world of a video game too seriously.

Last edited by Fyrestorme; 05/10/16 05:11 PM.
Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: CharityDiary] #591889
05/10/16 07:16 PM
05/10/16 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: CharityDiary
Please lock this thread.

I'm not sure this discussion will go anywhere good.


"Say that you think this guy needs a Humor +500 ring or something"

Quest Failed

Last edited by Testad; 05/10/16 07:21 PM.
Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Testad] #591891
05/10/16 07:30 PM
05/10/16 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Testad
Originally Posted By: CharityDiary
Please lock this thread.

I'm not sure this discussion will go anywhere good.


"Say that you think this guy needs a Humor +500 ring or something"

Quest Failed


Fun fact: that thread was actually a litmus test for the mods to see if they're hypocrites.

Spoilers: they are.

Last edited by CharityDiary; 05/10/16 07:31 PM.
Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: CharityDiary] #591898
05/10/16 07:41 PM
05/10/16 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: CharityDiary
Originally Posted By: Testad
Originally Posted By: CharityDiary
Please lock this thread.

I'm not sure this discussion will go anywhere good.


"Say that you think this guy needs a Humor +500 ring or something"

Quest Failed


Fun fact: that thread was actually a litmus test for the mods to see if they're hypocrites.

Spoilers: they are.


Fun fact: your fact is not funny

Last edited by Testad; 05/10/16 07:41 PM.
Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Ayvah] #591903
05/10/16 07:47 PM
05/10/16 07:47 PM
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Meanwhile, I'm just sitting here wishing for the other non-elven race/gender combos that I play to get more attractive and form-fitting clothing options.

At this point, maybe Larian would be better off removing Elves altogether given the drama they cause, or make them utterly inhuman to the point where they completely look as though they are made from wood/tree bark, lack breasts, hair, more androgynous, etc.

Maybe that will shut people up, when you take something and make it have no appealing characteristics at all, turn it into just a thing that everyone looks at neutrally, and that inspires no feelings whatsoever.

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Nivv] #591905
05/10/16 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nivv
lack breasts


whoa there, now hold on. Lets be reasonable.

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: SlamPow] #591921
05/10/16 09:17 PM
05/10/16 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: SlamPow
Alrighty, well, this has been fun. But I feel that I've successfully proved my point. That, and I gotta go play DOS2 with a good friend of mine! grin

Cya!


Allow me to correct you there, you sucessfully proved your opinion. hahaha
Posting links to 500 pages of material without comment only shows that you do not really know how to argue your point at all, nor that you care about convincing anyone.

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: CharityDiary] #591922
05/10/16 09:20 PM
05/10/16 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: CharityDiary
Originally Posted By: Testad
Originally Posted By: CharityDiary
Please lock this thread.

I'm not sure this discussion will go anywhere good.


"Say that you think this guy needs a Humor +500 ring or something"

Quest Failed


Fun fact: that thread was actually a litmus test for the mods to see if they're hypocrites.

Spoilers: they are.


I think they are taking the : if we ignore it, it will eventually go away approach laugh

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Nivv] #591923
05/10/16 09:20 PM
05/10/16 09:20 PM
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Nah. When you have the morality police in your yard the best way is to do your thing and ignore their complaining. They scatter like sandpeople if you just don't budge to their demands. The protein world campign is a really good example of that.

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Ayvah] #591927
05/10/16 09:24 PM
05/10/16 09:24 PM
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sandpeople are easily frightened, but they'll soon return.. and in greater numbers

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Ayvah] #591935
05/10/16 09:46 PM
05/10/16 09:46 PM
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This is not your final paper on gender studies. This is a fucking game.

Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Nivv] #591937
05/10/16 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nivv
Meanwhile, I'm just sitting here wishing for the other non-elven race/gender combos that I play to get more attractive and form-fitting clothing options.

At this point, maybe Larian would be better off removing Elves altogether given the drama they cause, or make them utterly inhuman to the point where they completely look as though they are made from wood/tree bark, lack breasts, hair, more androgynous, etc.

Maybe that will shut people up, when you take something and make it have no appealing characteristics at all, turn it into just a thing that everyone looks at neutrally, and that inspires no feelings whatsoever.


"The Drama" they cause is purely in this forum alone, being constantly pushed by the same 2-3 people. I'm sorry but I don't see a widespread drama that would cause larian to rethink their character design. look at twitter, I even gave up scrolling in trying to find any mention of elves.

Now to get my own opinion into this whole discussion. I can understand certain people that really don't like the design and the representation it creates ,but I actually do like it, not for the "muh boobs" but just for the race-fantasy of having a woodlands elf race that dresses mainly in nature and sh*t and I like that, I like having different races that aren't just all on the same level of technology or... well fashion. Plus it lets me play as a skimpy male mage and I live for that.

I get it, female representation matters, but some people here really need to get down, log off and let off some steam, because they turned a small discussion about them disliking the design of elves into a political and social commentary discussion on such a high level that shouldn't be even there for a simple entertainment media... I understand the necessity to move away from the sexual objectification in games, I personally really dislike female characters that are obviously just there for the b-factor, but that doesn't have to mean that all forms of sexual representation has to be bad. I actually have to applaud Larian Studios for representing both genders of a race in the same level of "skimpyness" (for a lack of a better word coming to my mind), I was so prepared for changing sebille origin to custom one, change to male and then see a male character in full platemail and showing like 5 pixels of skin but I was pleasantly surprised to the point where I don't mind and can actually get them being serious about having a race that does dress in leafs. The only Issues I agree with is some of the poses that are ridiculous and the fact that sebille is the first origin selected when you start a new character, which is questionable. I'd much rather see lohse or the Red Prince as the first selected origin, or maybe one of the other coming origins.

All in All... People... Stop getting yourself worked up over this issue... currently this forum is spammed with the same topic in 10 different threads and all are on the top because of people pushing and pushing and it's obvious that it's just a vocal minority at this point...

Last edited by Rokji; 05/10/16 09:53 PM.
Re: Why presentation of gender matters [Re: Nyanko] #591950
05/10/16 10:19 PM
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Nyanko: Your interpretation of "intellectual property" is very different from the legal definition. It really sounds like your argument falls under the category of "freedom of speech".

Of course Larian has freedom of speech. And they can be the judge as to whether that speech is working as intended. Judging from the article posted by Swen, these issues are something that's on their radar. You shouldn't assume you're an expert on their creative vision. If they do decide to make changes, you'll probably accuse them of caving in to special interests? I'd argue it would be an example of them seizing an opportunity to better realise their creative vision.

aj0413: I think it's interesting that you posit that sexism doesn't exist, and justify it by saying that women in particular seem to suffer from a weakness that makes it difficult for them to persevere when faced with bullshit in an office environment.

What is this weakness, exactly, and where does it come from? Do you have any evidence supporting your claim? How can you justify your claims as anything except more of the bullshit women have to put up with?

It can be fair to argue that women sometimes miss out on professional opportunities because they have different professional attitudes. We shouldn't sit around here and blame all issues of sexism on the workplace environment. That's the complete opposite of my point.

The problem, again, is that sexism permeates through every part of our lives. Whether or not a specific workplace is progressive, at the end of the day women go home to a partner who wants to be "king". She and her partner watch movies, TV shows and play games that tell them that her strength, her intelligence, her professional capabilities are all less important than maintaining a persistent image of femininity.

I'm confident that workplaces are generally sexist, but I'll try to review sources further and assess this with an open mind before properly addressing this matter again. HOWEVER, this is just one component of a broad culture of sexism that interferes with the lives of both men and women and specifically works to erode the professional confidence of women.

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