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#591979 05/10/16 11:21 PM
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I'm hoping that in future updates that the source point system is either removed or heavily altered. Having to use the vampirism spell that has limited uses or find obscure puddles in order to use certain spells is a chore.

I've heard a lot of people criticize the memory feature, which I don't have an issue with, I understand why more powerful spells require more memory. But to put another barrier on top of that, forcing you to scrounge for a source point is irritating.

Obviously we're only in Act 1 and it's clear this feature hasn't been fleshed out, I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops as the game goes on :)


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well...you can get a source point early on in act 1. but it involves you going back on your word to a certain NPC ><


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Source points are one of the more interesting additions for me. It adds a tactical level of resource management that was partially stripped away by the AP changes. It also adds a strategic element that D:OS combat has generally lacked.

The big key in making it work will be toning down some of the standard skills a bit(this is needed for other reasons anyway) and really making spending those source points a critical decision. Once you do get vampirism it's trivialized a bit in between combats so it becomes too easy to walk around with a full source point stock.

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Source points are not 'anti-fun'.
Anti-fun would be a mechanic that explicitly punishes you for doing good, or playing an alternate play-style, like the enemy scaling in Oblivion/Skyrim(gotta love a level 100 alchemist going up against the same enemies a level 100 stealth archer does).

Source points are a resource to manage.
They restrict how often you are allowed to use your strongest abilities, to further accentuate their special status.

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Makes sense though. Only trained Source hunters would be able to abundantly use force magic

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Originally Posted by Ellary
well...you can get a source point early on in act 1. but it involves you going back on your word to a certain NPC ><



It's actually possible to get 3-4 source points in act 1

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If you get a wand with source vampirism you can get even more.

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From a high-level perspective, I played through to the end of Act I as a mage (with another mage partymate, plus a rogue) without spending any Source points.

The higher memory slot cost balanced against the (unknown) availability of Source points made less attractive the Source abilities I did bother learning. Source abilities (aside from Bless, which doesn't use a Source points) didn't have a huge draw that made them irresistible. That said, in the greater campaign to come, with more exposure, it's likely that I'd end up using Source points more.

Good scouting, resultant tactics and normal (lol) magic were the path I chose.

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Originally Posted by Fyrestorme


It's actually possible to get 3-4 source points in act 1


Well, actually...

Radeka's purging wand. 9 (?) charges, 9 points.

Purging wand from the Illusionist's cave. 9 (?) charges, 9 points.

Standing source by the burning buildings that provokes a voidwoken ambush. 1 point, 3 with Bless

Stnading source by the Voidwoken Deepdweller. 1 point, 3 Blessed

Standing source in the torture chamber under the vampire maze. 1 point, 3 Blessed.

Helm of Braccus Rex. 6 points

Withermoore's soul jar. 1 point (only point before leaving Fort Joy. Special: do not need your collar off to obtain it.)

Souls from the vault in the Illusionist's cave: 6(?)


So there's a few Source Points in Act I.

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My problem was less the source point expenditure and more than that those abilities require 3 memory slots (except for a couple abilities you get from weapons). I'd rather just have 3 regular abilities. I imagine this will change act 2.

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Originally Posted by SlamPow
Originally Posted by Fyrestorme


It's actually possible to get 3-4 source points in act 1


Well, actually...

Radeka's purging wand. 9 (?) charges, 9 points.

Purging wand from the Illusionist's cave. 9 (?) charges, 9 points.

Standing source by the burning buildings that provokes a voidwoken ambush. 1 point, 3 with Bless

Stnading source by the Voidwoken Deepdweller. 1 point, 3 Blessed

Standing source in the torture chamber under the vampire maze. 1 point, 3 Blessed.

Helm of Braccus Rex. 6 points

Withermoore's soul jar. 1 point (only point before leaving Fort Joy. Special: do not need your collar off to obtain it.)

Souls from the vault in the Illusionist's cave: 6(?)


So there's a few Source Points in Act I.


does that include the standing source in the "elf cave" in the fort? where the 3 frogs spawn.

if not, then add that one too.

I like the idea of "source vampirism", but it should be either an automatic thing (like for every "X" levels of enemy you kill, you get a source point), or else part of a skill/talent system in and of itself. it's a pain in the butt as it stands right now, and if the idea is to get people experimenting with source skills, the game is not doing a good job of that so far.


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Aside from the steam lance source skill you can get from a staff I couldn't bring myself to use any source skills because they all cost 3 memory, and I'd rather use those slots to give my mages more things to cast.

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Hi ! - sry for bad english

Here my point of view about source points :
I think it's a really great idea from Larian. But with somes changes can turn it into a reall game/fun maker ! Explanation, from my experience (SPOILER //) :

I /As said Slampow, you can found a lot of source points in the Alpha. See his comment for details.

II/ Uses i found in Acte 1 :
- High skills
- Activation of the lantern in the donjon after vampire maze
- Opening Braccus chest in the little donjon near the place you found Gareth fighting.

III/ Facts :
- 1) Opening Braccus chest and Activate the lantern consume all your character point source (1 or 3 points depending how many you have).
- 2) Ways to get point source could be boring => equipping wand, using skill ... Not making the game fluent.
- 3) As said other comments, skills costing 1 source point, also cost 3 memory slots... Too High price.
- 4) Some skill costing source are not game breaker. ex : Walk in shadows
- Combining 2, 3 and 4, some skills are not enough valuable and wouldnt be used. Cant let this happen :p.

IV/ Recommandations :
- Make point source rarely => Modifying ways to get points :
* Delete the vampirism/item skill (or modify it, see * 4#) => not making the game fluent
* Soul Jar : OK but you can have 6 source points in illusionist cavern, it's too much. Why not only 1 like in Fort Joy ? Moreover, you can choose to break the jar or absorbing source point (= get point source or experience). Actually there not enough difference, i think player always take source point.
* Puddle of source : Ok
* As said Ichthyic, it will be interesting to get point source by :
- killing powerfull/uncommon ennemies charged by source, like Shrieker, donjon master, boss...
- maybe a talent : after killing X ennemies ...
- a special 'executionner' skill by class :
°no cost memory => more fluent game, you are a sourcerer damn ! U need it !
°but 4 or 5 AP; 10 turn recharge => Cost your whole turn. Yeah it's not priceless
°you can only have one active (avoiding getting 3 sources point on 1 ennemy)
°unlock instantly after breaking mute source necklace ? in books?
°use : if you kill a source charged unit using this skill you get a point
°example for a thief : "Source Backstabbing" : If the target is less X% life, teleport you behind your target and execute it / deals XX dmg to it. And teleport you back. You gain 1 source point. Example for a Pyro mage : "Hell Sourcing" : You attract the inner source fire of your target body exploding and dealing XX dmg more XX if the target is burning ...etc
- Make use costs more higher, especially to access hidden treasure => See Facts 1). Lantern in vampire maze => 3 points, not 1 ...etc
- Rebalance skill cost, maybe a little bit more powerfull for certain / remove source cost for other ?

Player must think : "Okay, i cant win this fight if i dont use these points, but maybe there is a treasure just after i could get ?" "What should i do ? Nooo *Damn* I should have used it ! Oh i find a new point => lets try this old way... Epic ! Nice !"

Hope my comments help you. Ready to discuss about it more deeply. Thank so much for that game. Work done deserve a lot of congratulations...


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There are a lot of things to juggle.

-- money to buy a skillbook (or you need to find the skillbook)
-- memory slots to cast the skill
-- action points
-- source points - available but you need to find items or notice areas where they are available


It is very easy to do something wrong - especially for a new player (or even for a player who has played thrpugh D:OS1). E.g., you might buy a skillbook and not notice that you don't have enough memory slots (or some other resource) to use it. I understand the need to balance things, but the current system is a little cumbersome. It is probably worth thinking about how to streamline it. It reminds me a little bit of having to juggle headcount, money etc. for a large project. I typically play a game to forget about that crap for a while.


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