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Kalrakh Offline OP
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Please finally fix the stacking bug. Being unable to stack sometimes stuff that is the same but somehow isn't the same, was already really annoying in the first game. frown

And if you empty something by trinking it, you should be able to keep the emptied container for a refill. I just feels pretty stupid, that the characters seem to smash it after trinking.

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I think the stacking bug is caused by items that have different graphics despite being otherwise identical. I know candles will only stack with other candles that look exactly the same, and since there's a lot of different candle appearances, you can end up with a lot of stacks of candles in your bag (assuming you're actually taking candles; there's a lot of them, nobody cares if you take them, and they sell for 1 gold each, which adds up). It's probably the same issue with other items, although I really don't need equivalent health potions to have different graphics. If not graphics, there's just one thing different that makes them not stack.

Personally, aside from the candles (it'd be weird if they all looked the same), I could do without the slight variances in appearance of stackable items. It's not like I'm ever zoomed in far enough to see them, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Darxim
I think the stacking bug is caused by items that have different graphics despite being otherwise identical.


I don't think this is the case. I have three stacks of regular healing potions in my inventory, all with the same graphic and descriptions, that don't stack. The only difference is that one stack is stolen.

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Originally Posted By: Darxim
I think the stacking bug is caused by items that have different graphics despite being otherwise identical.


I don't think this is the case. I have three stacks of regular healing potions in my inventory, all with the same graphic and descriptions, that don't stack. The only difference is that one stack is stolen.

Basically the RootTemplate of items must be the same to make items stackable. D:OS 1 had some items (skulls for example) that didn't differ in visual appearance but had different root templates, so didn't stack. Maybe a 'stolen tag' (don't know how if they tag those items or just use a database in Osiris, probably the first) prevents items from stacking with non-stolen items, which would make a lot of sense.


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Keep in mind that icons in your inventory and the appearance in the game world are two different things, so while they may have the exact same icon, they may still have slightly different in-game models/textures.

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Yes, but there are two templates called 'SKEL_Human_Skull_A' and 'LOOT_Skull_Human_A' that share the same visual resources, physics, icon and stats. Most of the time the first one is used but a few items have the second template, so they don't stack. 'SKEL_Human_Skull_B' has different resources but shares the icon with the templates above, yeah, so most people won't recognize they are different when organizing their inventory.




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Originally Posted by Abraxas*
Yes, but there are two templates called 'SKEL_Human_Skull_A' and 'LOOT_Skull_Human_A' that share the same visual resources, physics, icon and stats. Most of the time the first one is used but a few items have the second template, so they don't stack. 'SKEL_Human_Skull_B' has different resources but shares the icon with the templates above, yeah, so most people won't recognize they are different when organizing their inventory.


If that is the reason, so that they look and are described the same, but somehow are not really the same, I would say, that is pretty bad game design.

Players don't see the templates, they only see, that stuff seems to not get properly stacked and get annoyed, like me and my friend.

It just looks ridiculous and buggy:
https://gyazo.com/d817604065445e1a0c40f0976bd9acd3

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Don't know what the reason is here: different templates, distinction of stolen - not stolen items, low max stack amount or a bug.
If they use different templates for similar items (as in the skull example of D:OS 1) it would be useful to alter the icons a little bit.


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Items in D:OS1 also do not stack if they are different to the engine.
Different parameters for item scripts or the existence of one when the root template has none can make objects look different to the engine.
This is the case especially for all items that have the HiddenPerception.itemScript attached.
(e.g. the moonstone close to the Cyseal north gate waypoint will never stack because of the attached scripts, as is the case for a lot of hidden rubies.)

A bunch of candles in D:OS1 could not stack even with the same RT because they had a parameter explicitely set which was saved in the object itself because it was not the default. At some point, Larian must have decided to change the default in Torch.itemScript, but the candles were not adjusted, so it ended with some candles having no script parameter info in the object while others had it, although the parameter was exactly the same. (was something like 'EXTERN INT:%StartLit...' as far as I remeber.)
That made those candles different things for the engine although they were absolutely identical in their setting.

@Abraxas: you know that items on stacks loose their handle, which must not happen if there is a difference. Since the engine does not know that the 'hide it' item script is actually no longer needed, it cannot remove the script. It would require some kind of 'EndGoal;' like in Osiris to inform the engine that the script has served its purpose and will NEVER again be executed. In this case it can be detached and the resulting object looks exactly like all the other objects with that RT/Stat and without a script.

A name set for the object can probably make it unstackable as well, or a description change, basically everthing that gives the object a difference from its 'RT brethren', because that info must always be preserved and must be reconstructible when a single item is moved off a stack.

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So... this is likely to remain a hot mess?

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No it just sounds like it will take a bit of work to fix. Also can anybody explain the purpose of having items marked as stolen? There's no way anyone would be able to tell if something was stolen other than the original owner, am I missing something here?

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I wouldn't call it a mess, it's how the engine is built.
And there is nothing to fix, because it's not broken. If you want version 2 out in 2017 then you have to live with it. Although I don't really know how things work internally, I have some idea how much work it would be to do this 'fix'.

I admit that I haven't too much info about version 2 and I don't have the EA, but I believe that they did not change everything between version 1 and 2 (besides graphics). Not the basics, they probably still have this root template - stats - scripts - ... system they had in version 1.
They might have extended the root templates but they already did that between Classic and Enhanced Edition. It did not change the nature of how things work.

(I would personally rather have Larian clean up the Osiris and scripting API and bring way more consistency into them and let modders do a lot more things than we could in version 1. There are at least two mods for EE that deal with inventory mess, so a lot of these 'little things' can be done with mods too.)

And about the 'mark stolen thing'. There have been millions of threads about how bad it is that everything could be stolen and sold without consequences in version 1, so Larian acted. With the current system in place, stolen items simply must be flagged and must become unstackable because the 'is stolen' flag would otherwise get lost when an item is put on a stack.
People wanted it, now they got it.
Identical stolen items on the other hand might build their own stack, but not if the owner is also included and is different for two stolen items.

As said in the previous thread, items (objects) must be absolutely identical to be able to stack. Because they have to be restored to what they were before being put on a stack.

Now, there are some items that could stack but do not because the root template has its 'MaxStackSize' set to 1. This can be changed of course, but not for weapons or armour, because those never stack, no matter what they have as 'MaxStackSize'.

Last edited by FrauBlake; 24/10/16 06:42 AM.
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Yes, you're right with the non-stackability cases you mention above. Hadn't thought of those.
If a stackable item's information is changed after placed in the game world it must not (and will not) be able to stack with unchanged items any more, regardless of the root template. If exactly the same changes are made to items (so they contain the same information) they will stack though.


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The problem were never things that were stolen and things that not to be not stacking. The problem was things, wich had no obvious difference being not stackable, like fruits and fishs. I hope, they fixed that problem at least a bit.

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
The problem were never things that were stolen and things that not to be not stacking. The problem was things, wich had no obvious difference being not stackable, like fruits and fishs. I hope, they fixed that problem at least a bit.


Right, this.

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Ah I'm sorry I wasn't clear, I wasn't wondering why they weren't stacking I was wondering why the feature is in the game, it seems like nonsense. but it's kind of off topic, srry

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As said before, things might look like they are equal, but they would stack if they were really absolutely equal. So the difference might not have been 'obvious', but it was there.

Take pumpkins for example, there were (or are, because EE is not yet totally dead) three different types, two of those use the same icon, and I guess this is what's meant by 'obvious', but all have different stats. So they cannot stack. (I'm not quite sure but I believe there are even three different root templates for pumpkins.)

If you want a consolidation, not much speaks against that. There is not really a need to have a 'pumpkin' and a 'pumpkin part' if the differentiation is internal only and not made use of in the game at all (if potential plans were abandoned) ... and if they even end up with the exact same name and icon in the final game. Something might have been planned at some point, but was never begun or finished.

Version 1 tells some 'development history' or 'evolution' in many many places. Cleanup always takes a lot of time and that was something Larian did not have.
Looks like they have even less for version 2.

@Abraxas: exactly. I think the actualy objects only save a delta to the root template which makes it easier to determine stackability. (This delta was left over for candles when the %StartLit parameter default changed. But if would have been a lot of work to adjust every candle. Obviously Larian does not have Norbyte's tool ;-)

Last edited by FrauBlake; 24/10/16 03:20 PM.

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