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I'm a wizard man.

I like wizards. I like casting spells. I'm a huge fan of magic, so much of a fan of magic I have preferences about the type of magic I like to see.

For me, this game offers 5 whole trees of spells for me to get into, and plenty of roles to see myself in. Do you wanna be a nuking mage, blastin' off fireballs and lightning bolts? It's there. What about a defensive wizard, creating barriers for your friends and manipulating the environment to their benefit? That's there. Wanna be a creepy guy who turns blood to fire and makes it rain blood and then soaks up the blood? It's there. Are you a firestarter, a twisted firestarter? Yes, yes, yes. There's more coming, too, summoning magic and polymorphing magic were voted in and are coming for sure. There's a huge smorgasbord for people who like magic to get into being a wizard.

For people who don't like being a wizard? Well... there's 3 left. Every other type of hero ends up in there somewhere. If you don't want to be a spellcaster, you pick from two dex options(oriented towards stabbin' with knives and shootin' with bows) and one str option. The entirety of strong guys has to be contained in Warfare. Doughty shield wielders who deflect and endure endless assaults, tricky fighters who cripple and trip their opponents with pure skill at arms, unstoppable juggernauts who smash through all opposition... you know. There's a ton of physical hero archetypes, they're a staple of fantasy writing.

But if you wanna play them, you have one skill tree to look at. There's nods to all that stuff in warfare, but it's only one or two skills. There's not enough variety in the tree to really step in to being a fully realized character concept. Even "The Warrior" in the arena, the pre-built plate wearing character, is full of geomancy and pyromancy skills, as well as a necromancy one. It's just as capable of burning everything as it is hitting things with a hammer.

I'm not saying, by the way, that Warfare is a bad tree. I know all about Rage. What I'm saying is there's so many magical options and nearly no options for fighters. If two people want to be a fighter type, the real difference right now isn't going to be what type of fighter they want to be, it's what other trees they're picking.

I know the skills aren't done, but I really feel it's important to not neglect the fightin' side of character identity. There's plenty for mages, don't forget everyone else.

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This topic touches on what I was mentioning earlier -- Warrior has the least amount of flexibility in choices (only Warfare). And although Warrior can dip into the Finesse or Intelligence based skills for utility -- should it come down to that because total lack of better options? I hope that when the full game comes out there is a large pool of skills in Warfare to cover those archetypes you mentioned.

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*shrug* It's gonna get worse. In the stretch goal, people voted to add Summoner and Polymorph instead of skill trees like Juggernaut and Bard

Honestly. Even if people voted against adding them in as skill trees it would be very lovely if the skill diversity for other archetypes was there and the skills were just divided amongst the three trees there currently. A poor work around, but I don't know if they'd be willing to go against the kickstarter stretch goal votes to add in different skill trees then those voted for

EDIT:
It should be mentioned that the "MIGHT" classes currently supported are really really strong and only get stronger by hybridization other skill types for utility/buffs/CC/debuffs

On the other hand, mage types are strongly encouraged to diversify in order to make maximum effectiveness.

Sorta like giving less Might options but making each individual skill much more powerful in recompense

The combat abilities themselves need lots of work though cause warfare is hardly appealing, scoundrel is the best all round for every physical type character, the defensive abilities are very lack luster, and while huntsman is alright it relies on environment terrain to make best use of it for elevation.

Last edited by aj0413; 10/10/16 03:33 AM.
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My fear is the system ends up like DOS1 where there was about 16 spells for each school. Warfare would get 16 skills that is suppose to cover everything in the strength category.

Last edited by Kresky; 10/10/16 04:58 AM.
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In most RPG games, the warrior is more defined by what he is wearing/carrying than what his 'skills' are.

I think:
that some of the suggested shield boosts would make for some diversity in that they might allow a tank type.
that ready access to magic schools for all warriors is a fun allows for diverse 'themes' (allowing arcane warriors/ battle mages/firey juggernauts etc)
that more of the magic skill trees should include 'strike' or similar type skills.
that 1h/2h/dual wield balance changes would allow for more diverse choices as well. As currently 2h is the go to for all warrior skills.
that significant diversity can be found within talents if done properly.*
Finally, that the polymorph skills should have an aspect of melee or a melee type focus.


For talents:
defensive specialist: while wearing a shield, every time you are attacked reduces cool downs on -specific skills-
1 hand focused: While wearing nothing in your offhand, Increase 1 hand damage by x% and item stats by x%
Duelist: While equipped with two weapons, counterattack the first melee attack against you by each opponent.
My ground: The first time an enemy advances within x of you for the first time in a round. Advance to melee range with them.

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Correction: This game offers SEVEN trees of magic (two are unavailable right now), and three for everything else.

If there is going to be a D:OS 3, Larian, I suggest that ZERO new magic skill sets get added, and instead an additional strength one gets added. Whether that's a new set, or the Warfare set being split into two schools, I don't know, but there's a bit of a magic overload.


Originally Posted by Kresky
My fear is the system ends up like DOS1 where there was about 16 spells for each school. Warfare would get 16 skills that is suppose to cover everything in the strength category.


Yeah, 16 skills does not seem enough for Warfare. I know symmetry is a big thing, but I think an exception might be a good idea in this case. Warfare should probably get at least 24 skills to choose from.

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Originally Posted by aj0413
*shrug* It's gonna get worse. In the stretch goal, people voted to add Summoner and Polymorph instead of skill trees like Juggernaut and Bard


I facepalm hard. There are so many other non magic classes in cRPG history.

Issue mentioned by OP is one of the most disappointing things about D:OS2.

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I'm not really sure what to suggest, but one of the things I never liked too much about the warfare skills is that so many of them seem built around the general idea of being more a berserker/brutish type, than a proper soldier. I've always wished for there to be more warfare abilities or attacks themed around using well practiced techniques and counter attacks, or viciously striking weak points. Granted, part of that seems like it would be resrved for scoundrel in the current system.

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Is Polymorph really a 'magical' skill? It is more something about changing your physical appearance so it will increase mainly your close combat abilities? Hard to tell at the moment.

Also Summoner and Polymorph got voted that way, so the playerbase decided.

Sure, more strength classes would be nice, but honestly I don't care so far, I enjoy using hybrids anyway. In D:OS1 I had a rogue with strength and int and not purely on dexterity and he was still awesome.

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"As a polymorpher, your body is your oyster. Grow sharp as swords horns, poisonous tenticles(with longer reach) or even wings to carry you across the battlefield. You can even change completely into - what? Something monstrous, that's for sure..."

Yeah dawg that's magic. I never liked the voting on skills in the first place, because every skill that got in is now at a massive disadvantage: It got in. Every other skill now gets to be thought of as perfect and filling wonderful roles. That's game development, sure, but opening it up to the players means the players now get to dream about what could've been instead of just wondering what could be next. It also means everyone who's voted tree didn't get in remains sour about it, and looks back at it each time thinking "man if only more people thought like me."

And no, the entire playerbase didn't vote on it. The best they could've hoped for was a representative sample of backers, and that is not the population of the playerbase. The kind of people who back games on kickstarter aren't the kind of people who pick up a game on release, there's differences.

Either way, the character I want to play is already in here. It's the character I know other people would like to play. I think there's just not enough variety for people who want to be a non-magic based hero.

Last edited by Grondoth; 11/10/16 03:20 AM.
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The transformation might be magic, but to fight with it probably isn't int based. ^^

You can never get the whole player base to vote, most of them don't ever go into a forum even. laugh

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
The transformation might be magic, but to fight with it probably isn't int based.


Nope, all Polymorpher skills will be INT-based.

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I really hope Polymorpher skills aren't INT based, this would be a pretty serious oversight in my opinion. Or at least in the skill tree have some that are INT based and others that use different base stats. It should at least be viable for non-INT based classes

I also wonder if we could convince Larian to add at least a few more skills to each of the not INT based skill trees so everyone can feel the love?

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Damn. We have 7 skill trees that are INT based. Only 1 for STR based and 2 for FIN.

To be honest the 7 magic skill trees are basically just different schools of magic that target different resistances. They all more or less are similar in terms of playstyle, tactics and function.

D:OS seriously needs non-magic skill trees like Juggernaut, Unarmed Combatant, Bard, Alchemist, Trap Master to inject new dynamics and tactics. These classes have radically different playstyle from the norm. D:OS2 needs this breathe of fresh air.

Last edited by ImariKurumi; 12/10/16 12:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by Captain Fuzzy Pa
I really hope Polymorpher skills aren't INT based, this would be a pretty serious oversight in my opinion. Or at least in the skill tree have some that are INT based and others that use different base stats. It should at least be viable for non-INT based classes


Apparently, it would be "too confusing" having different polymorpher skills based on different attributes, and people would dislike having to invest into different attributes for different skills in the same school.

It's a bit disappointing, but I can understand the logic.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Apparently, it would be "too confusing" having different polymorpher skills based on different attributes, and people would dislike having to invest into different attributes for different skills in the same school.

It's a bit disappointing, but I can understand the logic.


Has Larian made a statement somewhere on the polymorpher skill tree? I'd love to read it if so. It would be a little more confusing, but, it really makes sense to have a monstrous creatures stats effected by base strength/constitution/finesse of the character its morphing from, right? I'm actually not a big fan of warriors, I much rather other classes, but I really feel for the class.

I think to some degree it would be a missed opportunity if you couldn't have a warrior turn into a hulking beastie and be effective with it

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Honestly, with the system they have right now, they really should just consider putting skills that scale either off of ( attr[x] || attr[y] || atkDmg ) or any combination above. It's kind of stupid to have such rigid distinctions when you've got like 1 skill tree for 'physical shit' and 1 tree for 'sneaky git'.


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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Kalrakh
The transformation might be magic, but to fight with it probably isn't int based.


Nope, all Polymorpher skills will be INT-based.


Where are you getting this information? A quote or link would be beneficial. Otherwise it's just speculation.

Originally Posted by Nivv
I'm not really sure what to suggest, but one of the things I never liked too much about the warfare skills is that so many of them seem built around the general idea of being more a berserker/brutish type, than a proper soldier. I've always wished for there to be more warfare abilities or attacks themed around using well practiced techniques and counter attacks, or viciously striking weak points. Granted, part of that seems like it would be resrved for scoundrel in the current system.


I agree with this! Which is why I hope more weapon based skills and talents gets added, in addition to, in my opinion, necessary balance changes to the melee weapons and shields. Do this and I think a melee focused character with warfare skills can be a very rewarding and diverse choice.

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I'd love to see warfare spells/abilitys that goes something like:

Shields Up - Reduce movement speed by 30-75% but gain immunity to all disabling CC. Requires a shield, effect lasts 2 turns. 4-6 turn cool down.

(well trained soldiers can block when they need to imo, and tanks are often too easily cc'd to death, both NPC tanks and party tanks. Would love to see it available to both)


and


Hold Them Back - (is a stance) the first attack of opportunity each turn knocks the target back 'X' distance (determined by strength)

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Man-at-arms is currently a cluster fuck of whatever melee oriented skills, it is confused.

They should split Man-at-arms into 3 different skill trees imo.

Berserker skill tree that focuses on crits, dmg and multipliers at the cost of health/armor but immunity to some CCs. The offensive skills do more dmg with higher multiplier the lower the armor class(i.e wearing light/medium armor will increase multiplier). Has charge as gap closer.

Soldier/Commander skill tree that is kinda the jack of all trades. Mainly relies on stance system that provides a lot of utility. Focuses on consistent dmg, bleeding DoT with some defensive skills and party leadership skills. Has battle jump for gap closer and leash to pull enemies to you(tied to stance system).

Defender skill tree that focuses on mainly party support and defense like dispels, armor & resistance buffs, CC immunities and absorb dmg. Shield wall skill to form a barrier that prevents damage to anyone directly behind you. Has leap of faith(a.k.a WoW leash for priest) to pull multiple allies(you can choose) to you.

Something along those lines.

Last edited by ImariKurumi; 16/10/16 04:51 AM.
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