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I assume it is more like the Klingons in Star Trek; once the technology and resources existed to create species that were not just humans with minor cosmetic differences, they were updated, and the originals (eventually) explained as being the result of experiments with the results of human genetic engineering research (Klingon augment virus).

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Originally Posted by Raze

I assume it is more like the Klingons in Star Trek; once the technology and resources existed to create species that were not just humans with minor cosmetic differences, they were updated, and the originals (eventually) explained as being the result of experiments with the results of human genetic engineering research (Klingon augment virus).


So the elves we see here are/should be treated as a subrace with different physical features?

Not being sarcastic here, that's...actually a sound explanation, all things considered.

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I don't know how the writers have handled the elves from the previous games. Presumably it will need to be addressed for the lore book.

In a fantasy setting, an explanation for different varieties of elves wouldn't need to be very elaborate, though (lots of settings have used half-elves, light/dark, etc). Divinity 2 had a species created from elves mixed with dragons, then eventually corrupted by the effects of a necromancer tainting the magic in the area.

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Oh look its THIS thread again.
How many did we have?

I for one like the larianness of original sin 2.

It is a grounded story in a ridiculous setting.

larian said theyd improve the storytelling and make the setting more grounded. THey did not say it would not have teleporting crocodiles.

I personally find this a realy cool idea. Take something serious in a setting that is ridiculous as a premise.

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Originally Posted by Raze
In a fantasy setting, an explanation for different varieties of elves wouldn't need to be very elaborate, though (lots of settings have used half-elves, etc). Divinity 2 had a species created from elves mixed with dragons, then eventually corrupted by the effects of a necromancer tainting the magic in the area.

Oh, that's what they were. I completely missed the "mixed with dragons" bit, or rather I forgot: yay for having a completely ineffectual memory. For some reason I'd remembered it as elves in general being corrupted and what we were seeing here was nearer the start of the process.

I also didn't know what was the deal with the klingons, other than Worf's typically gruff "we do not like to talk about it".


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According to Vacca (the only friendly dragon elf), the dragons wanted protectors for the island, who were strong and fearsome like themselves, but less intelligent. The elves were a new race at the time, and deemed a suitable starting point.

The Next Generation didn't officially address the change to the Klingons, that I recall, just made a few jokes and references about it. It wasn't until Enterprise that it got linked in with Augments and human genetic engineering.

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So I take it they just used some of the elves rather than somehow changing the direction of the entire elven race? I should really go back and replay that segment so I can go through the dialogue again, I probably have a reasonably handy savegame lying around somewhere.

I remember they revisited the Trouble With Tribbles episode on Deep Space 9, but that's the only bit I can recall! I stopped watching Enterprise after it somehow gave me nightmares because I am that lame. Then again, so did Fort Joy.


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Yes, they just used a few of the elves (same as the first dragon knights were also elves, IIRC).
If you load any save in the Developer Mode version of D2:DC, a little way down the 'goto Region' dropdown list is a section of entries starting with 001_BattleTower_Beach; the second has DragonElf in the name (enable god mode first, and any save before that point will let you go through the conversation after teleporting and using the ladder you end up close to).

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That's quite handy. I thought I might need to be at the right stage in the MQ or something awkward like that, but I guess you can't actually meet the chap in question anyway unless you're at the right stage of the MQ etc.

Though of course I'm going to end up being distracted by the hermit with the wit of a carrot, who's one of the best characters in the game!


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Quest triggers may not work properly, and there may be some stuff missing, but you can at least speak to Vacca if you teleport to Sentinel Island before getting to that part of the story.

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DOS was a HUGE success.....it wouldn't make sense for them to screw too much with that formula to be honest. I don't mind the art style at all....it is beautiful and gorgeous. The writing was pretty good for the most part though could have been better but I'm sure they're working on that for DOS2. Overall I'm feeling pretty good about DOS2.

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Originally Posted by Mathdude
... this is Larian whose logo is an orc getting hit in the head with a dart.

I'd never thought of it as an orc before, more of a sort of mediaeval Judge Dredd.


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Mathdude
... this is Larian whose logo is an orc getting hit in the head with a dart.

I'd never thought of it as an orc before, more of a sort of mediaeval Judge Dredd.


So I'm not the only one..! Nice! *brofist*

As for the elf design... I also dislike this "Elves? Put some leaves on. Aaaand Done."-design. To unimaginative for my tastes. The DC ones are not great, but at least ok-ish, imho.

As for the chronological order... I'm a bit confused right now. Gave the Div2 games several tries, but after at most 30%-40% of the game even the last bit of interest was always dead and buried or at least severely injured. So can't say to much about these.
However, I always thought Dragon Commander was set in the most distant future...

So it actually is... DOS1-DD-BD-DC-ED-FoV-DOS2 ?

Yeah... hope you definately clear things up, a tad with DOS2 release. wink


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I'm rather liking the idea of Rivellon's own Judge Dredd now.

Er anyway, the chronological order is approximately DC-(much time passes)-DOS1-DD-BD-DOS2-ED-FoV.

I may have BD and DOS2 the wrong way round because I wasn't paying attention.


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No, you are correct; D:OS 2 is 4 years after BD.

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Personally, I think the writing has improved tenfold over the first game. I didn't find the 'darker' tone to be in any way forced or leaden. It's handled with confidence, and I feel the writers know what they're doing. Talking rats and whatnot are quirky enough for me without being nauseatingly corny.

I didn't like the first game's writing at all - there was far too much sugary sweet, tongue-in-cheek, winky-wink goofery for me to stomach. It wasn't horrendous by any means, but its plot was hyperactive, and its characters paper-thin.

By contrast, I found the first section of D:OS2 highly memorable. The shriekers are particularly creepy bastards, and I like the ambiguous morality of both the protagonists and the antagonists - I never felt I was playing a stock 'good guy', or that I was opposing homogeneously villainous enemies. Overall, a good start!

The only problems I noted related to the goofier historical baggage from the first game, shoehorned into a maturer story. The name Braccus Rex, for example, always raised a chuckle for me. It's screwball and parody-ish, especially the 'Rex' part. Like he was meant as some lampoon of the standard dark lord type. Here the character is given notable depth. He has a presence everywhere you go, and comes off as an enigmatic badass with a textured history.

Then you read some random character mentioning the 'Rex' part again, and you recall the black-armoured juggernaut with the flaming skull for a head that you meet down in some dungeon during the first game, and somehow it kinda falls apart...

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#Spoiler Warning#

As someone who played a lot of DOS 1 I think it is pretty safe to say that they have toned down the silliness significantly. If you look at the intro sequences from both games and compare them side by side it's really obvious but let's itemize some side quests to drive the point home.

DOS1:
-Talking clam stranded on land (silly)
-Cultists stealing artifacts from graves and the spirits attacking you because of it (not silly)
-Boats are on fire (not silly)
-Talking head being held captive that becomes your slave after reuniting with its body (silly)
-NO-ONE HAS AS MANY FRIENDS AS THE MAN WITH MANY CHEESES!...... (:-/)
-The majority of all pet pal dialogue (silly)
-Charmed orc (silly)
-The Fabulous 5 (silly)
-Murder mystery (not silly)

There are a few others, but I think that's a pretty good slice of what you could expect from the first game.

DOS2:
-Shipwrecked, lots of people dead (not silly)
-Void creatures attack you on the beach (not silly)
-Orphaned inconsolable child already hardened to the cruelty of the world (not silly)
-Man contemplating suicide due to circumstances seemingly beyond his control (not silly)
-A mother lamenting the loss of her child to no avail (not silly)
-A woman being extorted (not silly)
-A woman clinging to the hope of salvation only to learn that it has vanished at the last moment (not silly)
-Confused cat following you around (???????)
-Most of the pet pal stuff (still pretty silly)
-Two camps of people trying to make the best of a bad situation (not silly)
-A women who is looking for her father who turns out to have been lost to insanity due to the actions of their so called saviors (not silly)
-A ghost that has befriended a child which wishes to pass on but is unable to, you save the ghost leaving the child miserable and alone or trap the ghost forever in his damned state (not silly)
-Racial tension between former slaves and their probably still would be masters (not silly)
-A woman who joins a gang because of a void of the sense of belonging (not silly)

I could easily continue with this list for a long time with just what we've already seen, but I think I've made my point. There is "some" silliness still in the game, which is fine, but they have toned it WAY back and even addressed some incredibly mature issues reasonably well.

To the other point of not liking the way the elves look, I for one really like it when companies decide to shake things up a bit cosmetically. It takes balls to devote the resources to designing numerous different 3D rendered armor sets for each race individually and kudos to them for making the effort. I wish more games did more to push the boundaries of what a race can be beyond the typical "human with one or two differences."


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I think that demonstrates the point, and I must admit the lack of silliness concerns me. I do actually appreciate that the MQ feels more grown-up and less jokey, but it wouldn't be Larian if it didn't have a few amusing diversions. I hope there's more daft and offbeat things to find in the main part of the game.


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Originally Posted by Kilroy512512
#Spoiler Warning#

As someone who played a lot of DOS 1 I think it is pretty safe to say that they have toned down the silliness significantly. If you look at the intro sequences from both games and compare them side by side it's really obvious but let's itemize some side quests to drive the point home.

DOS1:
-Talking clam stranded on land (silly)
-Cultists stealing artifacts from graves and the spirits attacking you because of it (not silly)
-Boats are on fire (not silly)
-Talking head being held captive that becomes your slave after reuniting with its body (silly)
-NO-ONE HAS AS MANY FRIENDS AS THE MAN WITH MANY CHEESES!...... (:-/)
-The majority of all pet pal dialogue (silly)
-Charmed orc (silly)
-The Fabulous 5 (silly)
-Murder mystery (not silly)

There are a few others, but I think that's a pretty good slice of what you could expect from the first game.

DOS2:
-Shipwrecked, lots of people dead (not silly)
-Void creatures attack you on the beach (not silly)
-Orphaned inconsolable child already hardened to the cruelty of the world (not silly)
-Man contemplating suicide due to circumstances seemingly beyond his control (not silly)
-A mother lamenting the loss of her child to no avail (not silly)
-A woman being extorted (not silly)
-A woman clinging to the hope of salvation only to learn that it has vanished at the last moment (not silly)
-Confused cat following you around (???????)
-Most of the pet pal stuff (still pretty silly)
-Two camps of people trying to make the best of a bad situation (not silly)
-A women who is looking for her father who turns out to have been lost to insanity due to the actions of their so called saviors (not silly)
-A ghost that has befriended a child which wishes to pass on but is unable to, you save the ghost leaving the child miserable and alone or trap the ghost forever in his damned state (not silly)
-Racial tension between former slaves and their probably still would be masters (not silly)
-A woman who joins a gang because of a void of the sense of belonging (not silly)

I could easily continue with this list for a long time with just what we've already seen, but I think I've made my point. There is "some" silliness still in the game, which is fine, but they have toned it WAY back and even addressed some incredibly mature issues reasonably well.


No complaints here. Seeing people having their souls ripped out is indeed quite grim. What I find a bit "disturbing" is the cheerfulness and color of the world contrasting with the bleakness of the story, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.


Originally Posted by Kilroy512512

To the other point of not liking the way the elves look, I for one really like it when companies decide to shake things up a bit cosmetically. It takes balls to devote the resources to designing numerous different 3D rendered armor sets for each race individually and kudos to them for making the effort. I wish more games did more to push the boundaries of what a race can be beyond the typical "human with one or two differences."


I wasn't really expecting to open such a huge can of worms with my post; neither did I intend to mock the designers' choices. I just meant to comment on the huge discrepancies to the way elves are portrayed in different iterations of the series, and I've already been offered a sound explanation for them.

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My friend finds the elves ugly, I don't care that much, at least they look quite unique. But the corpse eating stuff we both think is pretty disturbing and a bit unfitting, it more reminds you at zombies.

Not sure, what about the charmed orc is that silly. One hand you have a 'drugged' woman to have to everything to appeal to a man on the other hand you have to kill her or let the two guards die. (I don't care about the 'charmer', but the other one is innocent.)

The gobo-clank could be some kind of sillyness, on the other hand it darkens the fabulous 5 stuff, The further you progress, the darker the story turned anyway. With Bairdotr friend turning a river poisonous and bloody with dozen of corpses and other stuff. A slaughtered village in wich you need to turn both sides of raiders against each other. The imps were on one side silly, on the other pretty sad.


Regarding the starting location more sillyness would be pretty of putting in D:OS2, but I guess after you escaped this damned island there will be more possibilities for a bit cheer and joy out there.

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