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As one of those people that don't like to reload a game to a point where i would rather start a game from begin then reload.

I have to say that there are places in game that can destroy all the experience. Like when after like 10 hours of play you walk into an ambush and you think that youre as prepared as it can possible be and then your whole group gets stuned in first round before you even ellowed to do anything and u have to watch how they are being slaughted without you have any chance to do anything and your game vote falls from 10/10 to 2/10 in like 20 seconds.

I realy hope this wont be in release, because i would hate to write an angry rezension about this game that i enjoyed way more then Dragon Age 3 till that event.

Also i think you guys did great job on second divine sin, at least on the start it is way better.

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well, that was embarrassing to read.

First, because it seems to imply you should be able to steamroll stuff at your first attempt to make the game enjoyable.

Second, because it sounded more like blackmail than criticism.
"You better change a thing I don't like or else".
"It would be a shame if something happened to your rating".

Last edited by Tuco; 13/10/16 06:21 PM.

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Best post ever laugh

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Your avatar is "embarrassing" and i just say it like it is. But you failed to understand my point, it is not about hard or easy, it is about losing because of your actions and not just because of a casino based gameplay.

I wanted to let developers know that this game may become a disappointment for many people if they keep it like this.

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I know the ambush that you mean. God it was annoying. Still, that was one way of making me learn an alternative strategy to my usual "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough", because I got pwned. D:


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While I understand the point you're making (at least I think I do), I'd have to disagree with the conclusion being drawn from it.

Yes, getting into a fight that can seem impossible to beat at first can be a frustrating experience but at the same time, it forces you to think of ways around it. An ambush is, after all, a premeditated engagement in which one side has stacked all of the odds in its favor and has the element of surprise, they're supposed to be nearly impossible to overcome.

D:OS SPOILER ALERT!

I know the ambush you're talking about and it had the same effect on me that fighting Braccus Rex in D:OS had when he drops a meteor storm on your tightly clustered party the moment the fight starts and TPKs your entire group before the "FIGHT" banner goes away. At first I was like, "What happened?"

But then my brain starts churning and I think of splitting up my group before fight starts and stacking their fire defenses to survive the initial volley and the strategy developed from there, like getting rid of the Ghould-That-Used-To-Guard-The-Lighthouse first because his poison clouds kept a constant synergy going with all the fire and kept healing Braccus and the Twins-Joined-By-Fire.

/SPOILER!


The point behind that kind of engagement is to keep you grounded. It breaks you out of the mold of "run in, slaughter EVERYTHING!" that you can easily get into when every fight is easy to see coming a mile away and you can use the same general strategy(ies) to overcome them. It forces you to think outside the box and tests your ability to overcome a situation that is completely stacked against you.

I may be alone in this but I am glad things like that are in this game and I hope they remain.

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Originally Posted by Avilyss
But then my brain starts churning and I think of splitting up my group before fight starts and stacking their fire defenses to survive the initial volley
That is exacly what i don't like about reloading, it is just like cheating.

I think instead of forcing reloading, it would be better to just send player and his company to a cage where they can escape and try again. And make them lose some items as penalty.

Last edited by Rasly; 13/10/16 08:10 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rasly
you're as prepared as it can possible be and then your whole group gets stunned in first round before you even allowed to do anything

In general I say that this game's not too difficult, but situations like this are impossible. It's like, "Oh, I didn't have high enough initiative to go first and, even if I did, I didn't already know the intricacies of the fight since it's my first time here, SO I GUESS I JUST LOSE." And if it's the fight I'm thinking of, it's just one aeromancer that does it. You can kill everyone else, but if he's alive, he can take your entire party from full health to dead without you ever getting the chance to do anything.

This is why I say that CC is overpowered. It's not just that the player can keep groups of enemies in stunlock. Enemies can also keep the player's entire party in stunlock, even if they're not all together. It's mostly a problem with electric stun, since that can span the largest area thanks to water and blood. Neither stunlock victories nor stunlock defeats are fun or interesting (at least, as they currently stand).

Note: I don't expect to be able to win any fight without knowing the intricacies of it, but I do expect to not have to know that one inconspicuous guy can essentially kill my entire party in one go.

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So bless is a really nice thing to enjoy if you think CC is ruining your gameplay. First turn stuff can be a pain in the ass, I know it can but just realize this game isn't going to hold your hand and tell you. "Hey, maybe that new height advantage thing could be useful!" Or maybe "Hm, If I get most of my party out of the line of sight after initiating combat with one I can bring them back to life if they do die, in a better spot!"

I'm not going to say the CC isn't a bit much when given to NPCs.

(SPOILERS FOR THE ALPHA!!!!)

One of the most frustrating things I had to deal with was the final fight. The instant charm on my warrior was really pissing me off, and even after we got past the Bishop the worm came.. and I stayed petrified. It took me a few tries before I was in a position that I was able to have all of my melee characters blessed, then it became a cake walk when I stayed fortified. Electricity wasn't stunning me anymore either. I didn't have to worry about slipping on ice, while my ranged party stayed safe. It's certainly a double edged sword of how the mechanics of the game works.. however, with that in mind there are times that the 'cheesy' electric cloud saves me from otherwise terrible fights. Singling out enemies from the rest because they can't go through a CC field is a great way to work around things. Sometimes it doesn't even work when an enemy uses phoenix dive or something, then I have to think of how to counter something like that. (Teleport, sleep, ect.)

Don't treat the game like you would Diablo, treat it like a fancy chess game.

Last edited by paro; 14/10/16 12:25 AM.

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I'm pretty sure the fight in question is the one you do to get Bless. That aside, he was walking along and was ambushed, so if he did have Bless already at that point, he would've had to have been casting it every 20 seconds or whatever out-of-combat while walking around to keep it up. And he's not talking about difficulty in general. He's talking about getting ambushed, and before he gets to go, his entire party is stunlocked until they die. It's basically like you're walking along, everything's going fine, and then suddenly you're dead. There's no strategy. You're just dead. That's not right.

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Originally Posted by Darxim
I'm pretty sure the fight in question is the one you do to get Bless.


I like to go in the back and get Bless first. It allows you to ambush them instead.
It does help if you know about the ambush though.

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Regarding the whole "first time running into something I had no prior knowledge of means I am not prepared and might fail" part, all there is to say is that that's just natural.

And then you get prior knowledge and the second time you go at it, you know what to expect.

The actually difficult (and fun) games make it so the difficulty stands in how to win the fight even with all the prior knowledge you gathered. And this is where D:OS falls a bit short. Once you know what you're in for, the fight becomes straightforward: either you walk all over it, or you can't get past it, or something very close to the two ends.

A game where all surprises easy to overcome is a boring game.
A game where all surprises result in game over can be frustrating.

Now I think of games like Dark Souls. Popular games that are supposedly really difficult. I assume that in such a game, a surprise is basically game over. But it's still a popular game.

The value of a surprise is minimal when that one time occurrence is followed up by several failed attempts at surpassing the moment. But it's value is big when the surprise is the only obstacle.
Exception to this are "ironman" modes, but really, you shouldn't be going into such a mode without extensive knowledge of the game and its finer details if you expect to beat it.

So, by my potentially flawed line of logic, I think that the whole issue lies in the difficulty of the game, rather than its surprises.

In short, I think that the massive contrast between losing and winning does indeed subtract from the game. Having an easily winnable game with harsh game overs is not a good formula. Consistency is better, regardless of what area of the spectrum of difficulty the game is decided to be at.


Unless otherwise specified, just an opinion or simple curiosity.
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It's not a difficult fight if you can't do anything. It's an impossible fight. There's no strategy involved when you can't do anything. Again, this isn't a thread about the general difficulty of the game. It's a thread about how stunlock is a thing and can cause you to lose a fight before you've had a chance to do anything, and how that's not fun. If they want to make things difficult, hey, I'm all for that. I could use some extra difficulty. But that shouldn't come in the form of "you automatically lose".

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Originally Posted by Darxim
It's not a difficult fight if you can't do anything. It's an impossible fight. There's no strategy involved when you can't do anything. Again, this isn't a thread about the general difficulty of the game. It's a thread about how stunlock is a thing and can cause you to lose a fight before you've had a chance to do anything, and how that's not fun. If they want to make things difficult, hey, I'm all for that. I could use some extra difficulty. But that shouldn't come in the form of "you automatically lose".


Yeah... I ended up giving up my Glass Cannon dreams because of this. You get CCd and killed once and those 2 extra points no longer seem worth it.

This problem isn't so bad when playing with other people, as spreading out and pre-buffing multiple characters is a lot easier. Heck, your tank can even have a reasonable lead on the others to reduce surprise costs.

It sounds like Party Formations for managing a party when playing solo might help. Didn't we have that in DoS 1? Is that an option yet here?

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Isn't the usual and correct reply is to say ... git gud?

I mean beyond that it's also a matter of expectations. Did the devs give you enough warnings about how grim dark your future is gonna' be at a certain point giving you time to adapt your game plan? What constitutes as 'enough' in terms of warnings? Was the adaptation even possible at that point?

This is a wide spectrum.

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If you don't have have both physical and magical armor on every chars, you're doing it wrong.
If you don't have your physical dps going on the mage and mage on the physical, you're doing it wrong.

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Perhaps you should try explorer mode, that might suit your playstyle more.

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You are talking about the cave fight, the whole squad being electrocuted and stunned by the witch in the pool of blood right?

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Petition to make this a new copypasta.

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Originally Posted by Rasly
Your avatar is "embarrassing"


Classy. What I'm noticing is that you're pretty young and immature.

Originally Posted by Rasly
it is not about hard or easy, it is about losing because of your actions and not just because of a casino based gameplay.


You don't understand the term "casino based gameplay" enough to use it. None of the cc effects in the game have any RNG elements. I can almost guarantee that there were quite a few things you could have done to make that fight easier on yourself. You refuse to tell us which fight it is, and I think you know that's because if you did, people would actually try to help you rather than jumping on your hate bandwagon.

Originally Posted by Rasly
I wanted to let developers know that this game may become a disappointment for many people if they keep it like this.


I won't lie, there are some elements I don't like about D:OS2, but I'd venture to argue most involved can safely say that it wasn't a disappointment for them. You're in the minority, so don't try to act as if you're the majority.

Originally Posted by Rasly
That is exacly what i don't like about reloading, it is just like cheating.

I think instead of forcing reloading, it would be better to just send player and his company to a cage where they can escape and try again. And make them lose some items as penalty.


Oh. He'd rather there be no fail state to the game. Great job, Sir Rasly.

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