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this will have spoilers dont read it if youre an egg

the list:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oHAldkwFGUt6s5hx5LhkifFlemZtMLNC0RlKQjxtI4I/pub

the forum url code doesnt work or whatever so just copy and paste like the caveman u r

Last edited by chocolate; 21/10/16 05:34 AM.
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You can hold Right Shift to queue movement commands. That doesn't work well for picking up items or at all for using skills, though.

The effective damage going down when you level is a bug, and will be fixed in the next update, along with some changes to how the bonuses work per level and how they are applied to weapon and magical attacks.
The intention was that the effective damage from weapons would remain the same, since weapons are suppose to apply bonuses based on their level. For spells the effective damage was also suppose to remain the same, since the increase due to character level would negate the reduction of the bonus.

Ricochet is working as designed. That may be changed at some point, with different selection criteria for the ricochets than the opening shot.

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Originally Posted by Raze

You can hold Right Shift to queue movement commands. That doesn't work well for picking up items or at all for using skills, though.

The effective damage going down when you level is a bug, and will be fixed in the next update, along with some changes to how the bonuses work per level and how they are applied to weapon and magical attacks.
The intention was that the effective damage from weapons would remain the same, since weapons are suppose to apply bonuses based on their level. For spells the effective damage was also suppose to remain the same, since the increase due to character level would negate the reduction of the bonus.

Ricochet is working as designed. That may be changed at some point, with different selection criteria for the ricochets than the opening shot.

I actually read the original post about Larian wanting to change the attributes to flat damage etc. it just still isn't changed so I'll list it.

I figured that ricochet was intended to hit innocents, I just think that if that is the case then it either shouldn't work like that, or ranger should have a better balance of skills early. Or at least reliable indicators of who will be hit. Early game skills for ranger currently consist of:

Heal + Cleanse
Utility anti-dodge anti-high ground debuff
AOE you can't use near people you don't want to kill
and an AOE you can't use in the direction of people you don't want to kill

Basically they just become useless if there is even an npc in the same room that they don't want to hit, because Ricochet and Marksman's Fang don't work like other AOE spells that can hit innocents. If only one of them could hit innocents it would solve a lot of problems, but they should both still have indicators of who will be hit.

This is mostly a problem with Marksman's Fang because of it's unclear range (which seems gigantic) and it's ability to curve. The curve is cool, but it doesn't mesh with the hitting innocents and Ricochet also hitting innocents. There needs to be some balance so that ranger can still function with at least one ability without hitting people they don't want to.

Making Marksman's Fang just hit in a perfect straight line would solve a lot, leaving it the way it is but making it not damage neutrals would also. I do feel like Marksman's Fang is most of the problem and if it were fixed ricochet wouldn't even be noticeable.

But regardless they both desperately need indicators. Every skill should tell exactly who it is going to hit before it is used.

Last edited by chocolate; 21/10/16 05:35 AM.
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19 remove dwarves (quality critique)

hahaha I love it.

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Quote

34 i feel like the whole armor system is just a mess. you wear heavy armor and then when the enemy breaks through it its like youre wearing nothing at all? its just awkward, doesnt feel good. Maybe try something like: heavier armor gives flat damage reduction from ALL damage, leather armor gives dodge, and cloth armor gives a recharging shield. the frontliners need damage reduction more than temporary hp, the leather wearers are kind of in a weird in between, and the magic users (or whoever would be wearing cloth since hybrid is a thing) could make more use of temporary hp since theirs would be low and they wouldnt be tanking enough hits to need reduction. Something like each piece will recharge 10% of its total each turn, and the amount can be 0 so that early game you dont have wizards running around with mega shields. this is just a suggestion, since the current system feels wonky. but better yet just have cloth be worthless for protection and give damage stats and rarely have the magic shield modifier since traditional casters should be squishy pastries anyways.


I agree with a lot of your points, but this is just a matter of perception. Here is a basic example of what I mean.

Hero 1 has 50 hp and 50 armor and is immune to physical debuffs.

Hero 2 had 50 hp and 50% damage reduction.

Both heroes take a physical hit for 50 damage.

Hero 1 loses his armor and is no longer immune to physical debuffs.

Hero 2 takes 25 damage and has 25 hp remaining.

Both heroes have an effective 50 hp left against physical attacks, hero 1 has a significant edge against magic attacks and the added benefit of being protected from any debuffs from that first attack.

As long as the percentage reduction and health added are similar (which they very much seem to be in actual play compared to DOS1) then the new system is more effective for the player more than a traditional armor/resistance system.

In addition to this, you can easily see how armor and magic armor effect both you and enemies. In most other systems, in order to get that information you would have to dig through a menu and then calculate out the actual effect. So the new system, while not what we're used to, is generally speaking better for the player both for combat purposes and usability.


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Quote

I agree with a lot of your points, but this is just a matter of perception. Here is a basic example of what I mean.

Hero 1 has 50 hp and 50 armor and is immune to physical debuffs.
Hero 2 had 50 hp and 50% damage reduction.
Both heroes take a physical hit for 50 damage.
Hero 1 loses his armor and is no longer immune to physical debuffs.
Hero 2 takes 25 damage and has 25 hp remaining.

Both heroes have an effective 50 hp left against physical attacks, hero 1 has a significant edge against magic attacks and the added benefit of being protected from any debuffs from that first attack.

As long as the percentage reduction and health added are similar (which they very much seem to be in actual play compared to DOS1) then the new system is more effective for the player more than a traditional armor/resistance system.

In addition to this, you can easily see how armor and magic armor effect both you and enemies. In most other systems, in order to get that information you would have to dig through a menu and then calculate out the actual effect. So the new system, while not what we're used to, is generally speaking better for the player both for combat purposes and usability.

I'm not really great at articulating or coming up with "better" ideas but this system in game now is very bad.

(p.s. the system I mentioned was only flat damage reduction from all sources, not percentage, as flat is just better in most situations in a game like this.)

But my idea doesn't matter it's not about my idea being better it's just a possible solution, what matters is that the current system is bad. The system we have now was built because armor was useless in the previous game, because status effects and one shot potential are too strong. The armor shouldn't be receiving an overhaul, the problem that's causing the need for better armor should be receiving an overhaul.

Temporary hp magic/physical shields are cool but they should be the exception, being rare effects on items, not the norm. 100% immunity is bad, temporary hp on everything is bad, 100% chance to apply every debuff is bad. It's not good to just keep adding progressively worse things in order to deal with a bad mechanic that you maybe like and don't want to change. When it comes down to it, debuffs and damage dealt per turn are out of control, and honestly armor could be exactly how it was in Divinity 1 because it was normal, it was fine. Armor isn't the problem, it's the unbalanced combat.

There's a reason most tactics games do things like having one move, then one attack. The AP system and the amount of enemies being fought at once need to be seriously looked at, as well as the damage values and ground effects, but most of the problem is really coming from the sheer number of things you can do in one turn.

Last edited by chocolate; 21/10/16 04:37 AM.
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Now we got chocolate to our fluffypuff-muffin, how will we survive this? aargh oops

Many things I would agree on, somethings I don't care that much and other stuff that is lively discussed in many topics.


When I first saw the ladder animation, I played a dwarf so I thought it was perhaps something only for dwarves and was fine with it. When I saw, that everyone does is, it got more of something annoyingly ridiculous. just to much.

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There are other things I could discuss, but for the moment I'll only say that the ladder animation is a callback to Divinity 2.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
There are other things I could discuss, but for the moment I'll only say that the ladder animation is a callback to Divinity 2.

I loved ED's ladder animation. I was playing it a bit yesterday and that bit of randomness still amuses me after all these years.


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I also enjoy the ladder animation, although I do agree that there needs to be a toggle for stealing things. Also, how about a thread where we can discuss the elves in greater detail? 😉

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Originally Posted by Mathdude
Also, how about a thread where we can discuss the elves in greater detail? 😉

I'm trying to forget that we've already enjoyed several of those. D:


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Stabbey
There are other things I could discuss, but for the moment I'll only say that the ladder animation is a callback to Divinity 2.

I loved ED's ladder animation. I was playing it a bit yesterday and that bit of randomness still amuses me after all these years.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
There are other things I could discuss, but for the moment I'll only say that the ladder animation is a callback to Divinity 2.

The ladder animation just isn't good for this game. Maybe as an easter egg somewhere, but it doesn't fit the story, and in a game like this the story and gameplay and every element should be working together towards one solid theme.

Last edited by chocolate; 20/10/16 07:48 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mathdude
I also enjoy the ladder animation, although I do agree that there needs to be a toggle for stealing things. Also, how about a thread where we can discuss the elves in greater detail? 😉


There was another thread that pretty much became that if you're interested.


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I personally don't care about the ladder animations. In fact I didn't even notice at all until you guys pointed it out. I am, however, very much on OPs side about the sneaking animation... With the setting of the game being much darker (which I love btw) the nonsensical sneak animations seem very much out of place.


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The sneaking and ladder animations are always going to be controversial, but as much as I'm enjoying the more serious business of the MQ, I would be very, very sad to see them go. They're just those odd little touches that make the Divinity series what it is. I'd hate to see it taking itself too seriously, however dark the story is.


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Originally Posted by Kilroy512512
[quote=Mathdude]I also enjoy the ladder animation, although I do agree that there needs to be a toggle for stealing things. Also, how about a thread where we can discuss the elves in greater detail? 😉


There was another thread that pretty much became that if you're interested. [/quote

I know. That was just my lame attempt at humor.... I'll see myself out.]

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Fair enough, though it's a bit "in service to the brand" for me.


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Originally Posted by vometia
The sneaking and ladder animations are always going to be controversial, but as much as I'm enjoying the more serious business of the MQ, I would be very, very sad to see them go. They're just those odd little touches that make the Divinity series what it is. I'd hate to see it taking itself too seriously, however dark the story is.


It's not about them being controversial though, regardless of how anyone feels about them they just don't belong. It's not because of how dark the story is - comedy can and will tell dark stories - it's because of the realism the game wants to convince you of. All of the text is trying to seduce you into believing these realistic and gritty rules of the world in order to make you care about what happens to the characters in it, and silly things like the sneak and other wacky character animations go against that and break any immersion the (amazing) writing may have created.

The wacky animations are not wrong. Larian just needs to decide if they're making a realistic game (as the story is trying to be right now) or a silly game (as the animations are trying to be) because no matter which one Larian wants they can't have both without hurting the players immersion.

Last edited by chocolate; 20/10/16 08:03 PM.
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I think they can have both: Ego Draconis did it pretty well, having a number of random, odd and absurd touches, be it the handstand at the apex of a ladder or the hermit-with-the-wit-of-a-carrot, or the Broken Valley Village gossips, or the gravestones, or the Horror of High Hall's exclamation of "oh bugger!"... etc. But I don't think it detracted at all from what was actually quite a serious storyline, and something which I found to be quite heart-rending more than once.

Perhaps it reflects our own approach to life: I've often been told off for not being as serious as a situation dictated, sometimes in an official capacity, but personally I felt my misbehaviour just added character and general seasoning to something that needed a bit more depth. Well okay, perhaps "need" is going a bit far, but y'know.


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I think, I would like the climbing ladder animation more, if it were some kind of 'personaility' of a hero who is a jester, rogue or otherwise very athletic and braggy. It would improve his uniqueness and personality. Instead of climbing down he would just jump with a salto or something like that.

But a dwarf in heavy armor doing an overflip on top of a ladder? That's just kind of odd.

If you have sneaking high enough, your char perhaps learned to mask himself, turning his sight into an enemy. Kind of mimikry. That would a logical reason why he can get closer than others. laugh

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