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Originally Posted by ImariKurumi
I like the Phy Armor, Magic Armor system but after sinking in a couple of hours, the whole system feels off and is lacking. Imo the saving throws mechanic should make a return to complement the Armor mechanic. Balancing between the 2 systems is a challenge but i'm pretty confident Larian can work it out.


Yay! Thanks smile

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I will say this: the current magic system does not work in any way with the Fear skills, especially the ones enemies have, ESPECIALLY the ones which hit all targets in an AoE.

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Armor system still feels dreadful.

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I think people are looking at this wrong. The bulk of the problem doesn't lay with the mechanic that prevents cc (saving throws/armor) but with the availability of cc.

Seriously, why does every aerothurge skill have to stun? And all the offensive hydrosophist skills need to freeze? Why do so many of the available warrior skills have a knockdown?

They need to make crowd control more expensive for the caster so they have to make an active decision to use it. If the abilities with cc had longer cooldowns, were not as common, didn't have other utility (like a gap closer, battering ram is kinda bs), or usually had a 3 ap cost instead of 1 or 2, then over half of this problem would be solved right away.

Anyway, I hate rng whenever it can realistically be expected to decide a match. If rng is in charge of crowd control in a game where you can often die in 3 turns or less, then too much is riding on it already, so no, I'd never want to go back to old saving throws.

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I had the same question. Why the alternative was not to just add skills only revolving around CC and being less "frequent", like one per class, with a high cooldown enough so that it would be situational instead of being the bread and butter of combat.

This is what scares me with the release on September though, the present batch will not have been tested by players, so if it's flawed, it will be flawed for release, that's a shame...

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Ah well, just run 4x elf party mage 29 ap build and steamroll the entire tactician mode.

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If a fight is not decided by cc, it is decided by raw damage. Or randomness. Currently we have a system combining raw damage and cc with very few randomness. I like it more or less.

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What is CC?

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Crowd control. Like when all your dudes get perma-stunned by various meanies.


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Or transformed into a chicken for a turn. I always get hungry when I see it.

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Originally Posted by Party Starter


They need to make crowd control more expensive for the caster so they have to make an active decision to use it. If the abilities with cc had longer cooldowns, were not as common, didn't have other utility (like a gap closer, battering ram is kinda bs), or usually had a 3 ap cost instead of 1 or 2, then over half of this problem would be solved right away.


Pretty much this. I'd rather have a empower mechanic allowing some skill to have cc with an empower version (cost more ap) than this bad armor system.
I've seen my character getting cc the whole fight, while my friends were able to play I wasn't. This all or nothing is worse than RNG to me. And I hate RNG.

And don't forget that the armor system forbid synergy between different damage source. Enemy has 5hp and no physical armor ? But all his magical armor is up so the mage in your group can't finish him up. Great. Better have full physical or full magical.

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Originally Posted by Party Starter
I think people are looking at this wrong. The bulk of the problem doesn't lay with the mechanic that prevents cc (saving throws/armor) but with the availability of cc.

Seriously, why does every aerothurge skill have to stun? And all the offensive hydrosophist skills need to freeze? Why do so many of the available warrior skills have a knockdown?

They need to make crowd control more expensive for the caster so they have to make an active decision to use it. If the abilities with cc had longer cooldowns, were not as common, didn't have other utility (like a gap closer, battering ram is kinda bs), or usually had a 3 ap cost instead of 1 or 2, then over half of this problem would be solved right away.

Anyway, I hate rng whenever it can realistically be expected to decide a match. If rng is in charge of crowd control in a game where you can often die in 3 turns or less, then too much is riding on it already, so no, I'd never want to go back to old saving throws.


Problem here is that you'll end up turning this into diablo 3 where types of damage don't matter and the only difference between an ice shard and lightning spell is the graphics.

Every skill is meant to feel powerful, unique, and multifaceted in order to make up for the memory stat limiting number of skills and to encourage people to not feel gimped when either building a class wide or tall.

Also, the armor system is inherently flawed.
Just look at the example above with the 5hp but your make cane do anything.

Armor should mitigate damage, not stop it completely. Just as it should mitigate CC, but not stop it completely. Further, the armor values across enemies should represent more specialization in armor type to encourage mixed PC parties.

Yeah, they could tone down the hard CC, but I can always just build a high memory class that takes the CC skills from every tree and be done with it; I'll still have plenty of options.

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We'll have to see how it goes but many of us have strong feeling and great ideas on how the system should be of feel like, however this is probably too hard to completely change the system with all the balancing and tuning it would require even if they already though about it a few month ago.

To solve the 5 hp guy problem (if you even consider it a problem, some ppl might think it's fine, and I am not overly concerned by that type of occurrence) they could still make it that Wands have a tiny part of their damages being Physical (piercing) damage the same way magical melee weapon have magical damages imbued into them.

And yes you mage can still do something. He can Nether Swap, teleport or be a necro and do physical damage.
Does it feel wasting a teleport to finish off a guy ? Maybe but that's how the game is and how any games are in these clutch situation, you sometimes have to use skill you want to keep but the circumstances, ...
Or Keep scrolls for your mages for added variety.

Last edited by Deadknight; 15/08/17 07:32 PM.
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Then again rng is the bread and butter of rpg since even before they were adapted to computers.

I must admit I'd rather have a mitigation system rather than a full barrier. The simple idea of saying "once the barrier is down, everything lands" seems flawed just by reading it... A percentage system would be better with the armor only reducing the possibility of cc or even damage for that matter...

Then again, the game comes out in a month, do you think they'll change anything about it. I'm waiting to see the final release but the more I come on these forums the less I'm confident about it being a good system...

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Originally Posted by aj0413

Yeah, they could tone down the hard CC, but I can always just build a high memory class that takes the CC skills from every tree and be done with it; I'll still have plenty of options.


If you build a high memory class and invest points in multiple different skill sets like aerothurge, hydrosophist, etc to get all the types of cc, you've already made a large sacrifice to get a bunch of cc. Your character will deal a lot less damage than characters of comparable level. And if they made each of those cc spells have a higher ap cost than they do now, then they wouldn't be applying cc to every single enemy a turn. I feel like that could be balanced, even with the current armor system.

Changing the entire armor system at this point right before release is not feasible, true. However, rebalancing individual skills that apply crowd control and making them cost more ap or removing their cc entirely (in exchange for extra damage or something to keep them balanced) would at this point be doable. Not that I think they will do it. It's just an option.

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Currently once armor is off your damage doesnt matter, Once all enemies are electrified by huge amount of water + electricity, i skipped my turn until all enemies are stunned to death and is just a matter of skipping my turns. This is not strategy nor is it actually a good system.

Why not actually separate CCs into tiers so that some makes you lose X amount of AP, some pushes your turn back alittle, and only the most powerful skips your turn?

Currently CC skipping turns is so absolutely powerful it is why the armor system is so flawed, because it is all or nothing. The way Oil works is brilliant so i do not understand why cant they just implant more things like that, it'd be easy with the current combat system too.

Besides, making CC reduce your AP for X amount of turns also allows you to fight against them if you know what you doing, with those 1ap CC cleansers, and makes certain traits such as Glass Cannon not completely useless.

Last edited by Cyka; 16/08/17 07:18 PM.
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