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My brother and I finished this play through and had a lot of fun with it. Agree with most of your points OP.
Beat it with only 2 characters, both melee one 2-H and one sword and board. The recover ability was always used but I never used the 3 ap attack of the two hander. I think attacking for 2 ap and saving 1 point for next turn was a better option

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Gotta also remember that they JUST implemented the new damage system, so they need time and our feedback to tune it just right.

I'm sure they will lower the enemy armor values or make it easier for us to get some armor of our own.

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Originally Posted by Kokoro-Sensei
Gotta also remember that they JUST implemented the new damage system, so they need time and our feedback to tune it just right.

I'm sure they will lower the enemy armor values or make it easier for us to get some armor of our own.


I think neither of those will be the case.

The first one... Well... the only problem with enemy armor is when they outlevel you. The game is harshly antagonistic towards you fighting enemies out of your league at least at the start. It is certainly hard to defeat enemies in their strong point though.

The second one... Your lack of good equipment forcing you to scrounge for any armor at all is the point of the start of the game. Though it requires a lot of effort, if you get rings and amulets you can just about double your armor.

It is kind of why a second chapter MIGHT be a good idea for the alpha/beta later on.

----

As for Staffs... I have a suspicion that AT LEAST later on they will get the stat boosts.

Once again we hit the "We are being intentionally starved for equipment and good equipment" barrier.

---

Also this version crashes HARD for me... I usually have to reset my computer.

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Originally Posted by Baardvark

I do have a general issue, where combat can feel really chaotic with the elements constantly causing explosions and stun clouds and smoke and cursed surfaces and crazy stuff.
DOS 1 worked well. Sometimes an unusual reaction chain happened, but now its out of control all the time. Current battlefield brings on top of it vertical effect, so requires more camera fiddling back and forth. Result is, player plays with camera, then throw a spell flowed by spectacular chain reaction. Then reload, or not. Russian roulette combat.

Graphics is bright, all the textures are sharp, expensive animation, all that fancy racial armor ... but game somehow lost a soul. Back in DOS1 even swamp monster looks cute. Now its not cute anymore, also game play is ... meh. I am sorry, but it looks to me it goes wrong way. Why you tryied to re-invent a wheel when you had a working car ?

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Maybe once they add armor recipes things won't be so awful feeling.

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The way I handle the crocodiles is I sneak my ranger(s) on the small ledge overlooking the battlefield and then try to bottleneck the crocodiles to the ground near it. Usually I can manage to burn them to cinders with the oil barrel there or just outlast them with superior damage.

Joined: Dec 2016
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Hello there, I just ended my third playthrough on this patch (Actually i'm like, 4h into my fourth) so here's some more feedback.

Stats :

Strength / Intel / Finesse : I like the fact accuracy does not depend on your score in these stats anymore however I'm not sure how I feel about physical/magical armor enhancement being tied to Strength/Intel since they are offensive stats.

Strength : I really hate the fact that it does not reduce movement penalty anymore. Bring it back pls ? Tie it to constitution if you want to keep armor enhancement on strength.

Constitution : I think armor enhancement should be tied to constitution since it is a defensive stat. But with the current bonus to health it may be too strong. May be tone it down a little.

Memory : I really like what was done there. I feel like the stat is in a good spot right now. However, if magic armor enhancement was to be changed from intel to another stat, it would be memory and then it would become too strong. Returning it to one slot every two points may do the trick. (Maybe change the name too, memory does not make you more resilient to fire magic or necromancy...)

Wits : I don't know what to say about this stat. It feels really weak, yet when that crit does pop up with your crossbow shot... Ooh baby ! It doesn't help that you need a shit ton of it to get the initiative over all the ennemies in almost every fight.

Combat Abilities

I for one am pretty satisfied with those as a whole. I wish we still had 3 points at character creation, but it didn't seem to be so bad without it. There's always a few things I can talk about tho.

Weapons : Ok, not so much to talk about here ! I like it.

Defence : It's so empty ! We need to fill this up.

Shield Mastery : An ability for shield users would be great (I would even say mandatory but, I may be wrong !). Suggestion : Increasing armor bonus from shields by a % and / or increasing blocking chance.

Leadership : This used to be mandatory in all my games. Now I don't even bother. The bonus is really strong, but 5m is far too short. Maybe it has something to do with my party composition and strategy (Lohse as Mage/Supp, Sebille as the deadly ranger, Red Prince as a suicidal Tank/Supp and my character as a death dealer hoping around the battlefield, typically a melee char.) but I can't seem to make good use of it. Since my tank is never as mobile as my melee dps, I always end up beeing deprived of this awesome buff. I really liked the older version too, but oh well. I'd rather have the bonus reduced and the distance improved than keep it in this state.

Pain Reflection : I love it. Nothing more to say. Oh actually : maybe check your loot table to avoid people getting stuff with +146 on this for free. http://imgur.com/zODfngu

Skills

Few things on the top of my head :

Like said by earlier : Hail strike went from overpowered to really weak, reducing it to 2AP may be a good idea.

The reduction in memory slot for source skills : Thank you. Before this patch I just never used any source skills, but now with the new memory attribute and the reduced cost in slot I feel like it is worth it to take some. Btw Chain Lightning is OP (Especially when ennemies use it 8), damn you Radeka).

Walk in Shadows no longer a source kill : Amen.

Necromancy : Love the passive, my melees liked it too. Too bad the spells are mostly boring. No more Oath ? No more summons ? I guess those will come with the summoner skill (this makes me sad).

Civil Abilities

We need more points. At least one more at character creation, either that or bring it back to one at level 3, then every 3/4 level. As it is right now, a rogue can either be better at sneaking than anyone else or be a thief but not both before level 4. It's a bit too late if you ask me.

Talents

Same. Previous patch we could get two more talents by level 7 (5 total, except for Ifan with Drudanae addict). Now at level 8 you don't even get a new talent (you end up with 4). It's really lame in my opinion. I don't know at which level we can pick up another one, but I hope it's not too far down the road. Admittedly, I have no idea at which level the game is supposed to end, nor how many talents you want us to have but...yeah. Me want moar talents.

Weapons

Weapon Skills : Great addition, I love them.

Cost to attack : I don't know about the change for one-handed weapon with free hands. I guess it would have been too strong with the Knock-out skill ?

As for crossbows, I think it could be a good idea if only they did enough damage to justify the cost to attack. Right now, 90%+ of the crossbows I found ended up being sold because the damage dealt to action point cost ratio was worse than that of the bows I had, most of the time. Maybe I was just unlucky.

Unique items additions : Great idea to provide some decent gear. I especially like the armor set you can steal in the ghetto and the weapons left behind by the magisters after their inevitable demise. Fort Joy is a dangerous place.

Unorganized thoughts :

Right now the game feels more difficult. For the first time in 6 or so playthrough, I died to the voidwoken on the beach. Multiple times. I'm not proud.

However after a bit of adaptation it seems ok. Fights are really slower early game because of the low damage. I don't know if I like it or not, but I got used to it so it can't be that bad.

Maybe it's because I played a lot of this game already but I haven't faced the same issues as a lot of people regarding the aligators fight. I always manage to handle them without too much trouble but then again, they don't seem to use their full potential on me ? In three playthrough they only used fear one time, and I still had magic armor. I can see the bullshit in this move since, most of the time, people won't have a lot of armor and to be feared in this fight is just a death sentence.

It does seem a bit unfair to see ennemies with so much armor compared to my characters. Early game it seems overwhelming but with the right gear you end up doing enough damage i guess.

To get good gear you need money tho and money is really hard to come by, especially if you don't want to bother with the whole paintings stealing. Thievery seems almost mandatory to get good gear right now, if you don't want empty pockets at the end of the first act anyway. It's true that I always end up with some savings but with every level 7 necklass costing 700+ gold, I wouldn't be able to gear my party if I didn't steal them. Then again, i guess we are supposed to feel deprived of gear in this first act, right ?

Regarding experience when leaving fort joy, like a lot of people, I feel like I need to wipe every magister in the castle to be confortable coming into the swamps. Some ways of escaping definitely net you less experience and I'm afraid some new players might feel thrown into the fray too soon. The worse part is that optionnal quests seem... well mandatory.

Inquisitors : I like the change ! Was it always the case that warfare skills would scale with the attribute of the weapon used ? (Here, INT for a Staff) If the answer is no then Good Job ! If it's yes, then I love this game, I always seem to learn something new !

Spears : So I wondered what it would be like after my staff wielder to play a finesse warrior/scoundrel. Felt good enough eventhough I ended up playing with a two-handed sword for a large portion of the first act. I couldn't find a good spear after Braccus'... made me wonder why I had so many points in finesse since with almost 0 points in strength I did far more damage. Obviously it is because of the low starting point and quick progression of the weapon damage. But still, I wondered for like 5minutes at least. I saw some suggestion on the board to have synergy between scoundrel skills and spears : I am in favor. Don't give them backstab though, that would be pretty broken.

Rogues do it from behind : Backstabber is Reaaally strong right now. I shouldn't say that since I love playing rogues but, they may need a nerf ?

There seems to be a bug with experience distribution ? My characters used to level up all at the same time, regardless of when they joined the party. Now my PC is slightly ahead of Red Prince (first to join) and the last two lag behind by a little margin.

In the fire slug cave, there is a chest that will always (I think?) get you a level 8 item. Is this intended ? Because having my level 5 Red Prince with 100 Physical armor and 50 magical armor with just a shield is pretty cool, but I doubt it should be this way so early in the game.

Sebille is crazy (Btw : Flesh-eating elves learning memory of the dead ? Wonderful. Their appearance and way of walking ? Not so much, but that's just me). Ifan is daddy. Red Prince is... well red, haven't played as him actually. Lohse is best girl.

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Originally Posted by Qaozer
In the fire slug cave, there is a chest that will always (I think?) get you a level 8 item. Is this intended ?
I liked your post but there was too much to respond to.

Yes you always get a level 8 item there and you did in the last version. However now if you get a level 8 weapon when you are level 2 your accuracy is -80% it is basically useless.

In the last build I liked putting extra points into Fin or whatever to compensate for a higher level item. If I found a dagger I'd go Scoundrel. OK my accuracy isn't great but it isn't 15%. If I found a bow, well whatever.

Now it is tough shit - you are level x it is level y -20% accuracy per level. That I think is a bit too high. You may as well dump it. Unless it is armor.

You can also pick up level 8 items in various other places - I guess these will change...
in a vase to the east after you go down the ladder into the arena before you get there, in a chest after jumping to the platform to the far N/E of the final fight - you need to either kill the shreikers or sneak in


And please Larian sort out AZERTY it is really annoying.

Last edited by lx07; 12/12/16 10:28 AM. Reason: spoiler tags
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The issue I have with leveling is something I've said before: "You want to strike a healthy balance between feeling strong and overpowered. You're the main characters. You're not the average grunt, monster or minion. You are the character designed to destroy the final boss and save the world, blah blah blah."

The point is simple: I feel TOO weak now. For being able to use magic and having experience with weapons, I do a pathetic level of damage compared to the advantages my enemies have. They always outnumber me, they always have magic and debuffs ready and always appear in top shape to fight me. Something I can't always do in return. Laren seems to have forgotten just how powerful cursed ANYTHING can be. It doesn't matter how much damage I do if my party gets cursed or plagued and has their HP reduced to 1. If I can't DPS race these very strong mechanics, I don't see how even HARDER difficulties are going to pan out with the current system.

In addition, it's as Stabbey has said. It's simply too easy to walk past the only real sources of experience and be left practically stranded. Difficulty isn't hiding the only ways to level up.

Last edited by Fluffington; 12/12/16 05:45 PM.
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I don't exactly see where your coming from Fluffington.

I admit that levels 1-4 that is kind of the situation outside a few builds...

But after that you seriously start to come into your own no matter what kind of character you have been trying to make.

As well you mention how all the enemies have skills? None of the pre-created characters lack magic and none of the current skills require more then 1 in a skill. You really are just crippling yourself by not diving into it.

The enemy is stronger then you numerically. What you bring to the table are your wits.

Yet I wasn't midmaxing...

As well cursed fire... That means you were fighting one of three enemies. Voidlings, Corrupted Turtles, and Frogs...

---

This is seriously where I wish I could watch you play the game... Because I really REALLY don't know where you are having such problems...

I don't doubt you are... But unless you seriously bombed with all your characters or are refusing to spend money I am just perplexed.

Last edited by Neonivek; 12/12/16 07:50 PM.
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I have to say I REALLY dislike these armor recovery skills. Why the heck is this shield-only? Shields could maybe grant an additional bonus but NOT have an EXCLUSIVE mechanic available. The armor system doesn't work differently without a shield...
This "solution" is none at all.

TBH, neither the old nor new (also with latest changes) "armor/defence/protection..."-system is working in a satisfying way, imho. I'd completely redesign it, but having seen the developement of DOS1 I doubt Larian will change anything in a drastic way.

So keeping that in mind and as much of the existing stuff as possible I'd just tackle the worst problems, that imho are:

- the split between physical/magical as it simply hinders a combined use of both kinds
- the fact that damage affects it instead of just the applied conditions/effects
- the distribution of it's influence

by changing...

> fuse both armor kinds into one (and maybe rename it, stability...? whatver)
> no direct damage influences it, only blocked statuseffects (-15 poison, -25 Knockdown... whatever)
> make it's use entropy based
> maybe keep one of the two as an "energy shield/EHP-only" similar to the shield spells in DOS1

Other item skills... yeah why not, just missing them on some categories like bows.

Last edited by Seelenernter; 13/12/16 01:38 PM.

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Quote
I have to say I REALLY dislike these armor recovery skills. Why the heck is this shield-only?


This is because Shields severely decrease your damage potential.

So this skill was added to make shields worth it... and it works very well.

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Yes, because any situation where you need to restore armor or shields is a situation where you haven't already been stunned to death?

And I'm talking about the game from a new player's point of view. You have to expand your viewpoints when designing a game. In the current form, new players are going to stumble around after creating a new character, feel incredibly weak and without direction, and will probably just quit in a confused and angry state. Several of my friends did this, and they are massive D&D players. The earlygame is where ALL the polish needs to be. It's called a first impression for a reason.

I'm not asking to be overpowered. I'm not asking for the game to be a breeze. But the earlygame is your hook. When your hook is what we currently have, no fish is going to bite that. This is discounting the hapless fish that already threw themselves upon the hook willingly (Us masochistic early access players).

Last edited by Fluffington; 15/12/16 03:40 AM.
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I dislike that the early game is relatively difficult and then things get easy once you obtain a few skills and levels. It would make more sense if the game started easier and got harder once players had a chance to familiarize themselves.

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Originally Posted by error3
I dislike that the early game is relatively difficult and then things get easy once you obtain a few skills and levels. It would make more sense if the game started easier and got harder once players had a chance to familiarize themselves.


This. 120% this. It's the legendary weapon vendor all over again.

Last edited by Fluffington; 15/12/16 05:31 AM.
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Originally Posted by Fluffington
Yes, because any situation where you need to restore armor or shields is a situation where you haven't already been stunned to death?


Well... Yes. There are many situations where the restore armor aspect of shields come in handy before you are stunned to death.

1) Your armor is low
2) Your armor was taken out but you aren't CCed
3) Your max armor has been increased
4) You've recovered from CC and you want to shore up your armor
5) Your buying time and chose to shore up your armor.
6) You took environmental damage or will do so.
7) You took damage from an ally

Shields are very useful. Don't knock them...

And I play on Classic... not explorer.

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Originally Posted by Fluffington
And I'm talking about the game from a new player's point of view. You have to expand your viewpoints when designing a game. In the current form, new players are going to stumble around after creating a new character, feel incredibly weak and without direction, and will probably just quit in a confused and angry state. Several of my friends did this, and they are massive D&D players. The earlygame is where ALL the polish needs to be. It's called a first impression for a reason.

I'm not asking to be overpowered. I'm not asking for the game to be a breeze. But the earlygame is your hook. When your hook is what we currently have, no fish is going to bite that. This is discounting the hapless fish that already threw themselves upon the hook willingly (Us masochistic early access players).


I agree completely. A challenge is most welcome, but that should come after the player is "hooked." Also, the term "challenge" may mean something different to those who are NOT die-hard early access players...

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I find the lack of gear disturbing

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Civil Abilities

We need more points. At least one more at character creation, either that or bring it back to one at level 3, then every 3/4 level. As it is right now, a rogue can either be better at sneaking than anyone else or be a thief but not both before level 4. It's a bit too late if you ask me.


^this^

Quote
Regarding experience when leaving fort joy, like a lot of people, I feel like I need to wipe every magister in the castle to be confortable coming into the swamps. Some ways of escaping definitely net you less experience and I'm afraid some new players might feel thrown into the fray too soon. The worse part is that optionnal quests seem... well mandatory.


Maybe if you escape fort joy you should get a huge exp boost. But all fight in fort joy if you return are now 0 exp. That way you get a huge boost when escaping fort joy but don't need to trail back into fort joy because the swamp is too hard and you also would not go back for exp farming. if people do go back it's for fun but they won't become overpowered since they get almost no exp.


Not in the mood for cheese?
That excuse has more holes than a slice this fine Gorgombert!
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Originally Posted by Neonivek
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I have to say I REALLY dislike these armor recovery skills. Why the heck is this shield-only?


This is because Shields severely decrease your damage potential.

So this skill was added to make shields worth it... and it works very well.


This doesn't change the fact, that these two things are not related. It's like saying "you don't need a car because your t-shirt is red".
The base system doesn't work differently there.


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I will also throw my 5 cents.

I like current level of difficulty though the game, it was challenging but not unfair, kinda like Dark Souls, except one time: Radeka just wiped my party with Chain Lightining, but she was one level higher.

Stats system is quite good
but i feel like Con is a bit weak, it also should give 2 % of every armor per point.

We need more civic skills points, that is quite obvious. If your character doesn't start with thievery for a while you would not be able to open anything by using lockpicks.

Shields are now great(kinda,slightly overpowered) i sugest tone them down a bit and buff other pieces of armor.

Hail from offensive spell went to control/produce ice spell i like it, dual wielder skill seems a bit weak.

To be honest i feel like everyone (heroes and enemies) are a bit too fragile.

I found some weird bugs
Skills treat everyone who aren't in party as enemies, and if ally will get hit from that skill he will be hostile after fight.
Voidwoken worm just give up, after killing Bishop.


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