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#601323 28/03/17 09:54 PM
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Invisbility for Polymorphist: Only a 6 turn cooldown??? Accessible in character creation??????

How is this balanced at all?

1 turn cooldown on Totems???

I don't understand.


Last edited by vivalafai; 29/03/17 04:21 PM. Reason: Chicken claw does not bypass magic armor. Please update description.
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Yeah they seem very silly.

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Some of these I have a feeling aren't meant for the early game but are being given to us at this time to test it out.

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Probably wanted to make an exciting splash with the new skilltrees, though chicken polymorph ignoring armor definitely seems ludicrous.

I believe Swen said each point of summoning lets you summon 4 totems? That seems equally ludicrous. 40 Totems summonable with 10 ability points? My impression is each point should let you summon 1 totem, which will help make investing in the ability feel important rather than "Oh, now I can summon 20 totems, yay?" Even having 3 or 4 totems plus an incarnate sounds really strong. I also hope the incarnate's visuals scale with the investment in summoning (maybe at certain breakpoints, like level 3, 6, and 9 make them look more menacing and bigger.)

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Totems don't live that long, that one player could ever have so many totems around. You amount of AP is pretty limited still and at least this skill isn't that cheap. Also at least at the start totems get easily killed too.

But yeah, some of the others skills feel far from improving the balancing, except if you want balance by making pretty much everything broken.

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Not to mention that Totems do very little damage.

Also Chicken penetrating armor is a bug. The kickstarter video says it relies on magic armor being down.

Last edited by Neonivek; 29/03/17 05:35 AM.
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...Are you suggesting that a 6 turns cooldown is short?
That's pretty much as long as they come in this game.


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Originally Posted by Tuco
...Are you suggesting that a 6 turns cooldown is short?
That's pretty much as long as they come in this game.


If anything that might be too long. To admit I can imagine the summoner getting abilities later on to ease that problem.

Kind of interesting the Summoner's summons are weaker than typical summons but they have a lot more potential.

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The description of the Chicken Polymorph does not mention magic armor.

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The 1 turn cooldown on totems seems fine with how they are oneshot kills for enemies.

I'm not saying I like that! (neither both the "incarnate's" nor totems designs...)

But it's clear what Larian aims for with their design, they want to force the player to do what the class is named after: summoning, and spending your AP for exactly that. I just do not think it's a good way to do it that way. It for example potentially prolongs the often already quite boringly slow battles even more with masses of weak attacks.
I actually would go with lower amounts of "full summons" instead, scrap the "totems" (+ give the "incarnate" a real elemental design as well as rename) and give them a reasonable AP upkeep in return.

Or as a narrow gauge solution at least... give them a way lower maximum number but higher protection, damage and slightly increased AP cost.

Last edited by Seelenernter; 29/03/17 10:39 AM.

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the only way they aren't 1 turn kills is adding both fortify and magic shell onto them.


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Chicken doesn't go through magic armour btw, just tested it. I also discovered the spell works really well with the opportunist talent because the chicken runs away, procing opportunist, and it doesn't break on damage.

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So the descriptions are lacking.

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Originally Posted by Neonivek
Originally Posted by Tuco
...Are you suggesting that a 6 turns cooldown is short?
That's pretty much as long as they come in this game.


If anything that might be too long. To admit I can imagine the summoner getting abilities later on to ease that problem.

Kind of interesting the Summoner's summons are weaker than typical summons but they have a lot more potential.


What's the cooldown for Walk in Shadows? 10 turns? Also, now that you have 2 invis spells with different cooldowns you can chain them together and basically wait for all your other cooldowns to refresh. This isn't even cheesing as it is directly possible via skills...

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Totems don't live that long, that one player could ever have so many totems around. You amount of AP is pretty limited still and at least this skill isn't that cheap. Also at least at the start totems get easily killed too.

But yeah, some of the others skills feel far from improving the balancing, except if you want balance by making pretty much everything broken.


If the totem doesn't survive a turn, that means you paid 1 AP to waste at least half of an enemy turn (if it was buffed, maybe the whole turn), as it's tanking X amount of enemy dmg. I still think this is a huge advantage for the cost.

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Originally Posted by Seelenernter
The 1 turn cooldown on totems seems fine with how they are oneshot kills for enemies.

I'm not saying I like that! (neither both the "incarnate's" nor totems designs...)

But it's clear what Larian aims for with their design, they want to force the player to do what the class is named after: summoning, and spending your AP for exactly that. I just do not think it's a good way to do it that way. It for example potentially prolongs the often already quite boringly slow battles even more with masses of weak attacks.
I actually would go with lower amounts of "full summons" instead, scrap the "totems" (+ give the "incarnate" a real elemental design as well as rename) and give them a reasonable AP upkeep in return.

Or as a narrow gauge solution at least... give them a way lower maximum number but higher protection, damage and slightly increased AP cost.


This seems more reasonable.

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Think the new skills seem pretty well balanced overall, aside from the totems which are just plain annoying. They do little damage, attack random enemies, and their impact is aoe so they will do just as much damage to friendly melee while also setting off random fields.
There are already way too many random ways to trigger elemental fields, we really do not need more via totems.

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Originally Posted by Yun
Think the new skills seem pretty well balanced overall, aside from the totems which are just plain annoying. They do little damage, attack random enemies, and their impact is aoe so they will do just as much damage to friendly melee while also setting off random fields.
There are already way too many random ways to trigger elemental fields, we really do not need more via totems.


Sounds like Totems should only be allowed to do direct damage to enemies, NO AoE or splash to ground surfaces.

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Initial impressions:

Like a lot of people my first impression of the chicken polymorph was it's too strong. No armor check and two rounds?

I've since changed my mind and find it pretty balanced.

It saves against magic (just isn't mentioned in the tooltip).

Chickens run for the hills. They don't just stand there like other CC. That's great if it's standing in next two several of your guys with opportunist, but a lot of the time, the chicken runs far off and/or around a corner. That detracts from its appeal a bit, as the target de-polymorphs and a ranger/caster/whatever is now pegging you from max distance. Alternatively you chase it or use another CC on it, but that often kinda defeats the point.

Same thing goes for the tentacle (disarmed npcs run off but only for one turn).

Bullrush seems broken. You can charge - multiple times - every round, for several rounds.

Summons seem fine. Long cool down. Doesn't hit like a truck, high mobility, a special ability but long cool down for it, can't tank.

I think totems are pretty balanced (maybe even hit too hard). If you get several up they do a lot of damage per round but are one-shot by everything. People are going to totally cheese them though and summon multiple pre-fight.

Asides that (haven't gone too far) decaying touch is now physical damage and I think infect now nukes physical damage instead of MR. If so, that's pretty awesome with necromancy being all - psychical damage, unlike the other schools.

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Would be kind of cool if you could set global behavior on your totems on whether they do direct attacks or AOE.

Originally Posted by Seelenernter

But it's clear what Larian aims for with their design, they want to force the player to do what the class is named after: summoning, and spending your AP for exactly that. I just do not think it's a good way to do it that way. It for example potentially prolongs the often already quite boringly slow battles even more with masses of weak attacks.
I actually would go with lower amounts of "full summons" instead, scrap the "totems" (+ give the "incarnate" a real elemental design as well as rename) and give them a reasonable AP upkeep in return.

Or as a narrow gauge solution at least... give them a way lower maximum number but higher protection, damage and slightly increased AP cost.


I agree that summoners should actually spend relatively little time directly summoning because that's not very interesting. Rather, they should spend time enhancing and directly using their summons in interesting ways. I think there's a good start with the existing skills, and I'll see for myself tonight how it plays, but I hope they continue to go in a more in an active direction rather than a passive one.

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