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Bullhorn does state that it raises retribution and that you can make a charging attack.

Though it never indicates that said charging attack is finesse based.

Given that my immediate assumption was that it would use strength... (and frankly there is a REALLY good argument that it really should)

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Edit: I see my confusion. I didn't know it was based on your primary weapon.

Though it saying that in the tool tip could have been nice.

Last edited by Neonivek; 29/03/17 05:25 AM.
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They should probably swap the ability bonuses with Tentacle hand, so the Tentacle Hand uses Finesse to precisely strike and disarm the enemy, but the big strong bull charging uses Strength. That would make much more sense.

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Regarding the fact, that attributes are pretty simple made and don't support mixed classes very good, I think it's pretty odd, that Polymorph seem to be thought as a mixed attributes skill tree. Because of tentacle I thought Polymorph is a STR-Skilltree, but now it's really odd, that Bullhorn is not STR.

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It is possible Charge being finesse based is an oversight/mistake because it causes bleeding.

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In my game "Bull Rush" is STR-based (Description: "Damage is based on your weapon and receives bonus from Strength").

Maybe it is based on your weapon, so if you use a finesse weapon it uses finesse and if you use a strength weapon it uses strength ... i only tested it with a two-handed weapon.

But "Bull Rush" feels i bit overpowered. It does the same damage as an normal attack for the same action-point cost (2 AP), but it is also a multi-target attack with range that causes bleeding and has no cooldown.

Last edited by Tommy123; 28/03/17 11:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tommy123
In my game "Bull Rush" is STR-based (Description: "Damage is based on your weapon and receives bonus from Strength").

Maybe it is based on your weapon, so if you use a finesse weapon it uses finesse and if you use a strength weapon it uses strength ... i only tested it with a two-handed weapon.

But "Bull Rush" feels i bit overpowered. It does the same damage as an normal attack for the same action-point cost (2 AP), but it is also a multi-target attack with range that causes bleeding and has no cooldown.


I forget: How do those numbers compare to the regular battering ram, which can cause knockdown?

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Level 1 2-handed elven warrior: STR & DEX 12 each

Battering Ram 4-5, Bull Rush 5-6

Level 1 2-handed elven warrior: STR 14 & DEX 12

Battering Ram 4-5, Bull Rush 6-7

Level 1 2-handed dwarven warrior: STR 16 & DEX 10

Battering Ram 4-5, Bull Rush 6-8 (same as elf with flesh sacrifice)

Last edited by Kalrakh; 29/03/17 12:49 AM. Reason: added dwarf results
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I just went and tested this and it appears that the Bull Rush power does indeed apply Strength or Dexterity based on your currently wielded weapon (with unarmed using Strength).

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Well that's cool that bull rush can be used either with either dex or str. But a 2 AP charge attack + bleeding skill with NO COOLDOWN? I honestly don't know what Larian was thinking with polymorph. Ultra mobility skill + floating status, ultra mobility damage attack, regenerating armor, ranged disarm attack, unresistable 2 turn 1 AP CC?! AND a cooldown negation skill (this must use a source point, right?) Just wowzer, what's even the point of testing all that for balance?

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Ahhhh I didn't know that.

I only saw that my guy had "All in" and since daggers are one handed... I thought he actually had a sword.

I didn't know they removed sucker punch and gave one handed "All in"

Then nevermind my suggestion is somewhat unneeded. It explains itself decently.

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Originally Posted by Baardvark
Well that's cool that bull rush can be used either with either dex or str. But a 2 AP charge attack + bleeding skill with NO COOLDOWN? I honestly don't know what Larian was thinking with polymorph. Ultra mobility skill + floating status, ultra mobility damage attack, regenerating armor, ranged disarm attack, unresistable 2 turn 1 AP CC?! AND a cooldown negation skill (this must use a source point, right?) Just wowzer, what's even the point of testing all that for balance?


I think it might be a little case of Swen-bias "this is going to be the coolest skill school ever"!

Meanwhile, in the slums of Rogueville, Rogues still have to pay a Talent Tax on daggers, don't have much in the way of dodging ability or armor protection without tanking their desperately needed mobility, have poor survivability, need to invest into Huntsman for the much-needed Duck Duck Goose Talent, and is it even possible for them to learn the basic Winged Feet/Levitate Scoundrel skill while on the island?

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One handed still gives Sucker Punch, they even added it for Wands.

Isn't it also kind of odd, that Battering Ram does not get increased damage through STR?

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I see my confusion. I had a spear... but the Lizardkin Spear on a certain angle looks like a knife.

No freeken idea why a polymorpher would want a spear... seems incredibly contrary to how you would build one.

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Honestly not even sure why Polymorpher needs a weapon at all. You are turning your body into a weapon so unarmed fighting would be more expected?

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Honestly not even sure why Polymorpher needs a weapon at all. You are turning your body into a weapon so unarmed fighting would be more expected?


Because there is no such thing as an Unarmed weapon type, and if you have no weapon in your hand you do less damage than if you have a weapon in your hand.

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There are many skills, whose damage does not depend of a weapon, even for non-magic skills, so the same could work for Polyporph. Bull Rush makes you ram enemies with your head, and not your weapon. So only a headwear would make sense to influence damage. xD

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Using weapon stats opens up the Polymorph skill to a lot of new opportunities as well as letting it combo off of basically any of the three primary attributes.

Essentially... It can be put into any build.

Which is a pretty good way to do it. Unfortunately there is no indication Bullhorn does that.

Last edited by Neonivek; 29/03/17 05:06 AM.
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Yep, I just went and checked on that too: Bull Rush also works with Int-based weapons, even dual-wielded wands. It deals the appropriate elemental damage type(s) in the process.

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Sure, the concept is nice, but why doesn't it work for every Polymorph-skill the same than?

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
So only a headwear would make sense to influence damage. xD
I quite like that idea. You could collect various hats for different engagements...

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