Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: May 2017
Y
yttihs Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Y
Joined: May 2017
Hi Larian,

1 point in Ranged gives 5% increase damage and 1% crit.

1 point Huntsman gives 5% increase elevation damage.

So my question is, what is the motivation to put points into Huntsman when Ranged is obviously a better option? Unlike Warfare and Aerothurge, it gives a 10% damage to armor and 10% to magic armor respectively. That's something to consider!

The only motivation I guess is to use spells? But if my character is a ranger which heavily invested in Finesse, I don't see the encouragement to spend more than 1 point in Ranged unless there's a Ranged cap.

Perhaps, consider rebalancing the Huntsman bonus?

Joined: Feb 2017
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2017
the +5% high ground damage affects All types of damage of you do so it helps arrows and spells alot.

Last edited by Bullethose; 16/05/17 04:46 PM.

Rogues are the best
Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Bullethose
the +5% high ground damage affects All types of damage of you do so it helps arrows and spells alot.


Yes, but it's weird that Huntsman is only good for a hybrid build, not for a pure ranger. Not sure what it would take to make Huntsman generally superior to ranged. Maybe 7% damage bonus from height per point? Still not sure if that really compares with a non-situational increase of 6ish% (5% + 1 % crit) damage from Ranged.

Joined: Oct 2015
N
old hand
Offline
old hand
N
Joined: Oct 2015
Did you know you get more damage from Huntsman then you do from Ranged?

Joined: Feb 2015
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Originally Posted by Bullethose
the +5% high ground damage affects All types of damage of you do so it helps arrows and spells alot.
Every mage knows that a fireball casted on the second floor does more damage. Its obvious, because its obvious. eeerr. Or not?

Last edited by gGeo; 16/05/17 10:31 PM.
Joined: Nov 2016
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
Doesn't Huntsman also increase the range of the extra range you get from high ground?

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Originally Posted by Neonivek
Did you know you get more damage from Huntsman then you do from Ranged?


Elaborate on this. 5% from high ground seems to be less than 5% of all ranged damage + 1% crit.

Originally Posted by TraceChaos
Doesn't Huntsman also increase the range of the extra range you get from high ground?


It used to. Not anymore. They could probably return if they toned it down from less absurd heights. Like, even .2m max range per Huntsman point would be helpful without going into full on ranged craziness like it was before.

Last edited by Baardvark; 17/05/17 02:59 AM.
Joined: Oct 2015
N
old hand
Offline
old hand
N
Joined: Oct 2015
One is additive and the other is multiplicative.

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Originally Posted by TraceChaos
Doesn't Huntsman also increase the range of the extra range you get from high ground?


No, likely because it's already set to an absurdly long range. Basically, if an enemy is elevated, they can hit you from 25 meters if they have line of sight.

Joined: May 2017
Y
yttihs Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Y
Joined: May 2017
Originally Posted by Neonivek
One is additive and the other is multiplicative.


I understand the concept of additive and multiplicative but your elaboration is pretty vague, e.g. 2+2 = 2x2. You need to accompany your elaboration with examples.

Percentage (%) is always a product(multiply) of something, e.g. Base + (5% of Base) = Base x 105%. The only time percentage is addition is that it has the same product, e.g. Base x (5% of Base + 5% of Base).

Anyway, I have not done extensive testing. So it all boils down to the damage formula.

It can be Base + Finesse Bonus + Ranged Bonus + Elevation Bonus.
It can also be [Base + Finesse Bonus + Ranged Bonus] + Elevation Bonus.
It can also be [[[Base + Finesse Bonus] + Ranged Bonus] + Elevation Bonus]
Etc.

So Huntsman maybe justifiable after all. But the downside is that some fight doesn't have elevation at all. Peace.


Last edited by yttihs; 17/05/17 06:09 AM.
Joined: Oct 2015
N
old hand
Offline
old hand
N
Joined: Oct 2015
Quote
But the downside is that some fight doesn't have elevation at all.


Yeah! Like... and... What battles don't have high ground?

I know some have ridiculous requirements to obtain the high ground. (Source Hounds and Hound Master)

OHH! The Ice Dragon! That is one battle where there is no high ground whatsoever. Then there are the bugs but high ground and damage doesn't benefit those battles.

Given that less than halfway through the game you will have maxed out Ranged attack... I think a skill that is useful in 80-90% of all battles isn't too too bad. That is more often then Fire will prove useful.

Last edited by Neonivek; 17/05/17 08:25 AM.
Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
The fights on the starting side of Fort Joy have no high ground, like the turtles, but that's basically it.

Originally Posted by Neonivek
I know some have ridiculous requirements to obtain the high ground. (Source Hounds and Hound Master)


The enemy has the advantage in that fight. Don't let them have it. When I trigger the houndmaster fight, it is with one high initiative person who lures the enemies back into the prison to the stairs, where there is cover and high ground that YOU can start out with.



Joined: Mar 2017
member
Offline
member
Joined: Mar 2017
There is high ground with the turtles, for sure. The boat on the right side, for one.

Anyway, I don't think there is a problem with Huntsman. I love how it synergizes with hybrid mage/ranger gameplay.

As for the dogs, remember: they can't open and close doors xD. Also, they can't walk down ladders...but Larian, they should be able to jump off high ground and take falling damage and/or knockdown. It's so easy to teleport them onto a platform with only a ladder as an escape. Don't tell me that's cheesing...that's just a flawed aspect of game design.

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Originally Posted by vivalafai
As for the dogs, remember: they can't open and close doors xD. Also, they can't walk down ladders...but Larian, they should be able to jump off high ground and take falling damage and/or knockdown. It's so easy to teleport them onto a platform with only a ladder as an escape. Don't tell me that's cheesing...that's just a flawed aspect of game design.


That's using your brain as a player, it's not a flaw in the game. Also if humanoids are not allowed to jump off of ledges, dogs shouldn't be able to either.

Joined: Oct 2015
N
old hand
Offline
old hand
N
Joined: Oct 2015
Well I mean to get the highground against the dogs you TYPICALLY have to charge through them.

Which highly depends on you using teleport.

Joined: Oct 2016
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2016
Both of the damage bonuses are multiplicative, so if you're using a bow from high ground then having a mix of Ranged and Huntsman will result in more damage than all of 1 and none of the other.

However, because Huntsman has a high ground requirement, no crit chance, and has a default 20% bonus with 0 investment, it's not as appealing as Ranged.
In fact, a character has to have 5 points in Ranged before 1 point of Huntsman is more damage, and then continue at an even pace afterwards (this is due to the default 20% high-ground bonus).

Also consider that skills are capped at 10, and of course Ranged is only viable to Bow/Crossbow while Huntsman works for any high-ground attack, (great skill for multi-element mages looking to stack damage).

A few examples: (not considering crit, which is minor anyway)
10 points in Ranged is 150%. With high ground that's 150%*1.2, so 180% damage.
10 points in Huntsman is 170% with high ground.
5/5 split is 100%*1.25*1.45 = 181.25% with high ground.
7/3 Ranged/Huntsman split is 100%*1.35*1.35 = 182.25% with high ground.
10 points of both results in 100% base, 50% Ranged bonus, and 70% High Ground (50% Huntsman and 20% default). That's 100%*1.5*1.7 = 255% damage.

So as you can see, Ranged is basically always better until you cap it out, assuming your weapon applies. The minor damage bonus possible from mixing and matching isn't worth the loss on the times high ground isn't available.


Moderated by  gbnf, Nicou 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5