Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Nov 2016
Sethlon Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Joined: Nov 2016
I love that Divinity 2 has introduced the different free abilities that you can get depending on the weapons that you have equipped. They're all really flavorful and lend more pizzaz for the style of whatever that character is fighting with, and it's a really cool idea.

One thing that sort of bugs me is that in almost all RPGs is that there's never ever a reason to have nothing equipped in your off hand. You're either using a two handed weapon, a sword and shield, or two different weapons at the same time. Mechanically there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that, but it does leave out the historically accurate fighting style of having nothing in your offhand at all.

The sucker punch ability is really cool in that regard, in that it gives you something unique and useful whenever you happen to find your offhand free.

I feel like it's still a very inefficient way to be fighting, however. Sucker punch is great in that it only takes 1ap, does some damage, and is a knockdown on a relatively short cooldown. However, compare that to any of the other fighting styles; shields naturally make you a lot tougher, and two handed / two weapons deal a ton more damage. The utility of having a 1ap attack is kind of cool, but there are other useful 1ap skills, and if you manage to get on top of someone without burning AP on movement, you're going to be using all that AP to make two heavier hitting attacks with twohanded/two weapon styles anyways. Empty offhand just seems...bad.

Historically, not using a shield / weapon with your other hand is generally to leave your hand open to grapple with an opponent or manipulate any other things that might come up during a fight. 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons has an interesting Rogue archetype that can use a bonus action to either steal something off of their opponent or use one of the items they have on them, making it so they can get creative with mundane items like throwing acid or oil, setting caltrops or other traps, apply poison to a weapon, etc. Naturally they would need to have a hand available to do this sort of stuff, so it actually encourages the "one open hand" sort of fighting style, and makes sense form both a thematic and mechanical standpoint.

I'm trying to think of a way you could do something similar for Divinity. Grappling or disarming an opponent seems like it would be really complicated, and that sort of thing would probably require an entire skill tree focused on having an open off hand (which, come to thing of it, would probably be pretty cool). Realistically it would be impossible to pull out potions / throw bombs / etc if both of your hands were full, but it would be a dramatic change of balance if you needed an open hand to do that in Divinity. Perhaps something like a talent that makes it so that you spend less AP whenever you're throwing a grenade / using a potion / using a scroll if you have an open offhand? (The latter two probably wouldn't make sense from a design standpoint, but I'm just spitballing here.)

Thoughts?

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
I actually think a talent that lets you use grenades/potions/scrolls for less AP with no offhand would be perfect. Maybe it has some kind of cooldown (like 0-1 AP item usage every 2-3 turns). Another talent could be a sort of duelist talent, like if you dodge, than you counterattack the enemy. This would be stupid strong with a two-hander or DWing, but reasonable with a one-hander.

If there was a way to mod in a check for having only one weapon equipped, I could add some one-handed only skills. Not sure if that's possible (wasn't really possible in old game.) Would be nice to see a default check for that.

Joined: Feb 2017
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2017
I know the feeling bro i kept coming up with ideas for talents which would make the 1h empty offh style viable mah roleplay.


Rogues are the best
Joined: May 2017
A
stranger
Offline
stranger
A
Joined: May 2017
Make sucker punch 0 AP but long cooldown (3 turns?)

Give additional accuracy/dodge when off-hand is empty.

I wouldn't tie it to talent since that talent would have to justify itself (i.e. costing a talent choice) AND make 1H viable. Why not just make 1H viable?

Joined: Nov 2016
Sethlon Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Joined: Nov 2016
Originally Posted by Baardvark
I actually think a talent that lets you use grenades/potions/scrolls for less AP with no offhand would be perfect. Maybe it has some kind of cooldown (like 0-1 AP item usage every 2-3 turns).


I think this definitely would be a lot of fun and pretty themantically appropriate (although admittedly I'm the type of player who hoards all sorts of consumables and spends way too much time gazing into my inventory and wondering if now if the perfect time to pop one of the dozens of items that I have haha!)

I think having potions and scrolls cost 1AP less could potentially cause some balance issues, though. Potions are already only 1AP so you can get healing for free, and since you'd basically just be using skills for less AP than you normally would with scrolls, that seems like it could be problematic. Although maybe the economic costs of relying on that would balance it out in the long run, especially if there's a cooldown on the ability? And it would be a fun incentive to craft more. Ooh imagine being able to eat for free in combat and using the Five-Star Diner talent, that would be cool!

Originally Posted by Baardvark
Another talent could be a sort of duelist talent, like if you dodge, than you counterattack the enemy. This would be stupid strong with a two-hander or DWing, but reasonable with a one-hander.


That could be cool too, and also thematically appropriate for a duelist. It's a shame that it wouldn't be able to synergize with the Parry Master Talent, though, since that requires you to be dual wielding (though it would be a pretty simple thing to have that work if you have an empty offhand as well).

Originally Posted by AzureDrake
Make sucker punch 0 AP but long cooldown (3 turns?)


Sucker Punch actually already is a 3 turn cooldown. Making it cost 0 AP could be interesting, that would make it so basically every third turn you deal closer to dual wielding damage and have the utility of the knockdown, hmmm.

Originally Posted by AzureDrake
Give additional accuracy/dodge when off-hand is empty.


This is actually something that Pillars of Eternity does that I think is really interesting! Especially since in PoE the critical hits are calculated by seeing how far above their dodge chance / AC / whatever you want to call it that you roll...having higher than average accuracy also means that you crit more often. Admittedly I haven't messed with it too much in PoE, but it seems like most to hit chances are pretty high in Divinity 2? I don't know that increased accuracy would be really worth it, balance wise.

Originally Posted by AzureDrake
I wouldn't tie it to talent since that talent would have to justify itself (i.e. costing a talent choice) AND make 1H viable. Why not just make 1H viable?


That's a fair point, yeah. Just making it viable would be nice, but how would you do that without talents and without making some sort of crazy change to how the combat system works?

Joined: Nov 2016
Sethlon Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
Joined: Nov 2016
Originally Posted by Baardvark
I actually think a talent that lets you use grenades/potions/scrolls for less AP with no offhand would be perfect. Maybe it has some kind of cooldown (like 0-1 AP item usage every 2-3 turns).


Actually, yeah, you would NEED to either have this on a cooldown or not affect potions / food. Otherwise you'd be able to full heal yourself on your turn by infinitely chugging potions / eating food, Skyrim style lol

Joined: Sep 2016
6
stranger
Offline
stranger
6
Joined: Sep 2016
Originally Posted by Sethlon
Originally Posted by Baardvark
I actually think a talent that lets you use grenades/potions/scrolls for less AP with no offhand would be perfect. Maybe it has some kind of cooldown (like 0-1 AP item usage every 2-3 turns).


Actually, yeah, you would NEED to either have this on a cooldown or not affect potions / food. Otherwise you'd be able to full heal yourself on your turn by infinitely chugging potions / eating food, Skyrim style lol


It can be only 1 item per turn. Still problem with 0 AP HP potions, especially those that heal for 50%+ HP.

Maybe only for granades?

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014


Originally Posted by 626th
Originally Posted by Sethlon
Originally Posted by Baardvark
I actually think a talent that lets you use grenades/potions/scrolls for less AP with no offhand would be perfect. Maybe it has some kind of cooldown (like 0-1 AP item usage every 2-3 turns).


Actually, yeah, you would NEED to either have this on a cooldown or not affect potions / food. Otherwise you'd be able to full heal yourself on your turn by infinitely chugging potions / eating food, Skyrim style lol


It can be only 1 item per turn. Still problem with 0 AP HP potions, especially those that heal for 50%+ HP.

Maybe only for granades?


IMO healing potions should be 2 AP by default anyway. And I suppose it could be like elemental affinity where it doesn't reduce AP cost below 1. Between that and a 1-2 turn CD, it'd balance out I think. Single-handed with no off-hand is a huge loss of DPS and shield defense, so it needs something pretty good to make up for it.

Originally Posted by AzureDrake
Make sucker punch 0 AP but long cooldown (3 turns?)

Give additional accuracy/dodge when off-hand is empty.

I wouldn't tie it to talent since that talent would have to justify itself (i.e. costing a talent choice) AND make 1H viable. Why not just make 1H viable?


I do think there should be additional bonuses that don't need a talent, but I do think talents could do some of the heavy lifting. We already have the problem of sucker punch being accessible on a whim just by unequipping a weapon while DWing. If your single-handed prowess requires a talent, it won't be so easy for someone to just unequip their weapon when they want the bonus (like using items for less AP), unless they're willing to invest in a talent.

Not sure if we need a whole new weapon technique or not, or could just throw in some of the bonuses to the existing single-handed ability. Like it gives 1.5x the bonuses if you don't have a shield.


Moderated by  gbnf, Kurnster, Monodon, Stephen_Larian 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5