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Stabbey Offline OP
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All of these are VERY BAD SPELLS because they change all surfaces around. Even surfaces which are not even connected.

That is almost always a recipe to FUCK OVER THE PLAYER and not the enemy, because the enemy has a major armor advantage over player characters.

These spells ARE BAD and Larian should FEEL BAD for putting them in the game. What genius thought it was a good idea to put in spells which are unpredictable and uncontrollable in a tactical combat game built around creating massive surface interaction combos? They are wasting valuable space in the game and especially on the presets.

No one likes them. No one uses them. No, not even that guy. They are awful.


***

I got a great example of this while testing out starting a fight in the first room of the game. AI Red Prince used Contamination which changed all the blood into poison, including the blood my Death Knight was going to use to heal with.

Except that it didn't just turn into poison. It turned into FIRE because apparently some of the blood had been in contact with a fire surface from the Red Prince's stupid shitty fire breath skill. That somehow managed to set the poison in my room on fire even though there wasn't a path between them.

***

The only possible fix I can think for them is to have them change the surfaces only in a specific circle to allow you to use them precisely. Except we've just established that won't work because adjacent surfaces can set each other on fire.

Ditch the spells. They are garbage. We don't need huge giant FUCK-OVER-THE-PLAYER spells as part of the player's skill set. What we do need are PRECISION TARGETED spells which do not create surfaces when cast on an enemy.

How about "Skipping Stone" which inflicts slow to enemies without magical armor instead of Contamination? Fire Breath instead of Ignition. (Lizards get Shed Skin instead) a piercing Ice Lance which chills or freezes enemies in a line without armor. And if you can't think of another fire spell idea, then at least lose the "set all surfaces on fire just because lol" part from Fireblood.


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I use them

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Global Cooling and Ignition are perfectly fine. Heck Global Cooling is excellent!

It is only Contamination that has a problem for three reasons
1) Water is everywhere and sometimes hard to spot
2) Blood... Blood is an issue.
3) It poisons smoke... SOMEHOW!

The first problem isn't that big, if that was the only issue it would be fine.

The second is a much larger issue... But on its own it isn't THAT bad. (Bad, but usable)

The third makes it almost unusable.

---

Fireblood on the other hand I have no idea what it is for other than as a NPC only spell.

I feel like it ONLY exists because a NPC character uses it. It is pretty useless...

I don't know if it needs to be removed (maybe Spell Crafting can make use of it) but yeah I can't think of ANY build where I'd even suggest it.

Last edited by Neonivek; 25/05/17 01:31 PM.
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Stabbey Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ludvig
I use them


Okay...

Are you going to share your experiences with them? If you have something to say in defense of those skills, now is a good time. Please speak up and tell us.

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How about:

You click on an effect on the ground. (Blood for Contamination for example) and only this and all directly adjacent puddles will change. Basically like bless/curse just that it changes the ground effect. Then reduce costs and BAM powerful and useful combo feature.

Last edited by Lyrhe; 25/05/17 09:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by Lyrhe
How about:

You click on an effect on the ground. (Blood for Contamination for example) and only this and all directly adjacent puddles will change. Basically like bless/curse just that it changes the ground effect. Then reduce costs and BAM powerful and useful combo feature.


The issue is that these skills are still useful as a LARGE AoE attack which have small cool downs and low AP values.

It is why Global Cooling is nearly broken because of its large AoE CC.

Removing that aspect would weaken the overall point.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Ludvig
I use them


Okay...

Are you going to share your experiences with them? If you have something to say in defense of those skills, now is a good time. Please speak up and tell us.


Well you seemed very firm on your position regarding the topic so i got the impression you wanted to discuss how they should be changed instead of debating if they are fine in their current state.

Now everything can be improved so i am not against changing them, just as i am up for changing anything in the game.

They cost 1 ap which is the primary reason why i use them every now and again, it is not like they are key spells to my victories, but after a bit of fighting so is there usually quite a bit of blood, if the opponents are in the blood (which they often are) i usually do the contamination followed up with ignition combo to deal some aoe damage on them, and yes of course i need to first make sure my own guys dont get hit to hard.

I rarely use global cooling, but that is often because my hydrosophist mage is busy doing heals, frost armor and such stuff, so i lack some experiance with that one.

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I can see why they annoy you .They often screw everyone else over except the one that cast the spell. This seems to be caused by not having a clear idea whats going to happen when the spells cast. I find it rarely does what i think its going to do, still an amusing spell tho. I just wish it was more clear exactly what obstructs it because some things do i'm just not sure what. (I have only got around to using contamination so far.) I think a better indicator of whats going to happen when it is cast is required to make it usable but that is just my 2 cents i still think it's cool >_<.

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After hurting myself and allies the first 5 times or so I have found that they're a school of spells that when used correctly are possibly the best effect per AP in the game. Early game examples are most of the animal fights and in Kniles' room. The little or 0 MA on these mobs make it easy to poison/ignite/freeze them all. Just takes a quick check to make sure you're doing more good than harm. On discord I usually just ask if anybody's standing in anything or if they have MA to withstand it as well. That all being said I have a friend that will never carry those spells because he hates them, that's part of the beauty of this game. Don't like a spell then nothing makes you carry it, they're plenty of targeted spells.

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Stabbey Offline OP
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I've forgotten about Nails + Boots = immune to slipping, and there are tons of nails around, so I'll put aside my complaint about Global Cooling.

I agree with Ravensky, one of the biggest problems with these skills is not knowing what will happen after you cast them. This is a tactical combat game where it's important to be able to have a clear picture what will happen. Skills which fail that test are a poor fit.


Originally Posted by Helf
After hurting myself and allies the first 5 times or so I have found that they're a school of spells that when used correctly are possibly the best effect per AP in the game. Early game examples are most of the animal fights and in Kniles' room. The little or 0 MA on these mobs make it easy to poison/ignite/freeze them all. Just takes a quick check to make sure you're doing more good than harm. On discord I usually just ask if anybody's standing in anything or if they have MA to withstand it as well. That all being said I have a friend that will never carry those spells because he hates them, that's part of the beauty of this game. Don't like a spell then nothing makes you carry it, they're plenty of targeted spells.


Enemies with little magical armor are few and far between.

If you (or more specifically a Companion) is using a preset which has Geomancer, then yes, you ARE forced to carry that spell and need to pony up extra money to buy a new skill to replace the useless Contamination. Why does the FIGHTER of all people have Contamination, when it is a melee class who will be standing in blood almost guaranteed and will therefore poison themselves.


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They could highlight the areas affected better I suppose. I've still ran across several enemies (Usually the plate wearers) with light enough MA that exploding a barrel or something similar brings them to 0 and makes them susceptible. I'm way more frustrated with Hail Strikes hitting outside it's target than these spells.
The Fortify, Battle Stomp, Contaminate preset is a weak one imo, but I usually drop the Contaminate for Fossil Strike in the early game. I usually run multiplayer games where everybody picks their starting spells.

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Wait are you not micromanaging everyone as the only time I have had an issue with field is if i was not paying heed to the field. Also npc companions class can be changed when you recruit at joy or if you have 4 mates get them to join you. get them to make your compans as you like then save and have them drop.

As for what spells do is it not mentioned in the info panel also there is a circle that shows the area effected by the spell (only problem is water made by rain as that is a big ass circle but stays near pointer.).

Rain is a must if fire or poison is your foe also hail is good at getting rid of poison.

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This is a moot point until Poison and Fire have a new interaction. Poison having an EXPLOSIVE interaction with fire is BAD for the game in almost every way possible. If fire hitting a puddle of poison turned it into a poison cloud, fine. That makes sense. Oil ALREADY explodes with fire, leading to abusive damage combos that toss oil at an enemy that is on fire, causing them to take damage from 3 sources: The oil, then the explosion, THEN the "new" fire surface they are now "standing in". This alone CRUSHES creativity in builds. But to have the EXACT same interaction with TWO different elements is BEYOND unacceptable.

Ask any mage player. They know this combo well and HAVE to abuse it to keep up with the new bullshit that is a finesse dagger build.

Last edited by Fluffington; 28/05/17 05:20 AM.
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Only Oil barrels explode with fire.

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Just keeping with OP's PoV I created character last night taking Ignite, Contamination, and Peace of Mind. On current build on Classic difficulty I've solo'd the ship fights, beach voids, Burro/Kana, Turtles, Silence, Crocs (used Electric Discharge Scroll), Card Players, Frogs, Silent Monks, pulled a patrolling Ranger (dinged Lvl 4). Just finished "The One" and am cleaning up the magisters now.
At lvl 1 most things died to Dragon Breath, Cont/Ign, wand down.
At lvl 2 Purchased Haste, same strategy. The wand that drops from Turtles works well with build
At lvl 3 I now have searing daggers and poison arrow. Delaying turn to go 2x in a row works well, blow up their MA with the targeted spells, ignite/contaminate puts the dots on them, generally a turn or 2 of wanding finishes job.
At lvl 4 I now have enough spells that it feels much more like a traditional Geo/Pyro build. Same strategies but I now have much more firepower and Ignite/Contaminate are relied on less heavily.
The point? Nothing really, just that these spells are viable and I personally had fun testing this build out. They are still not even close to my favorite spells but when they shine they can shine brightly. Their were several fights that were over in a couple rnds with all enemies burning/poisoned and me just regaining HP/Shields while they died

Rules for this run was no Companions, No fleeing fight, No abusing stealth, No buying scrolls/pots and I also try to avoid using scrolls as well. I used Turtle Wand and the best shield I could find so far. Migo's Ring and Teleportation gloves are also being used as soon as I can obtain them.


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