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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2017
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I would argue that the only people that have the "credentials" on that subject are the Larian team themselves, given that they know what is required to add more features to their engine, or what it would take to rework things to meet your request. Thank you! But by your own logic, you don't have the "credentials" to say that such a thing is easy or even possible to implement within the time between now and release, right? Correct. "Easy" isn't the correct word for what I'm trully expressing. But considering this is not my native language and all I see in this post is "hard, impossible, gigantic"...kinda sounds I'm the least of your narrative problems in here 
That kind of thinking is a logical fallacy though. You don't need credentials to make logical assumptions based on time, experience with the game and development progress, and rationality.
Close, but this is not a logical fallacy. It's a proven fact that this feature exist and works in other games. Although I agree you don't need credentials to make logical assumptions, that only applies to common knowledge. Say, you love football and watch it all the time, you don't need someone to tell you when it's a penalty or not. Does that apply for game development? Meh.... It's such a specific area with so little information across the net, that no, you can't properly measure something like time. It varies way too much, beetween studios, teams, people, money, development and much much more. Maybe this features takes an enourmous time to implement. Maybe they just need the idea and a few days. Right? GM mode seemed like a reasonable outcome to me, mainly because such a thing most likely existed in some form as an editor they used to create content for the game itself. Tweaking it and adding things to make it a viable as a mode for players was just a wonderfully creative idea. One of the best features of this game so far in my opinion.
I think there's some inherent limitations in the way the party system works right now, specifically with player characters. Try it yourself: Host a game, and connect 3 other instances to it and make 4 characters.
Now disconnect the other 3 players, and play is as a singleplayer game. Maybe you eventually want to dismiss one of the player-created characters and recruit an origin party member. Unfortunately, you can't. Where would the player character go anyway? Even worse, if one of the player characters was an origin character, dialogue is bugged with them. You can't dismiss them.
I'm yet to try this. Unfutunately I only have one friend playing the alpha. This is something I'll def try. But I do know there are limitations in this build and a later stage will soon be put into testing. For all I know, there's inherent limitations in just the way all this data is stored in the save file, and untangling it to somehow transfer and store it in someone else's save file results a huge mess.
Something like this is usually easier to plan and implement near the beginning of development, as it could affect the way you design saving, NPC interaction, quest progression, stat balancing, loot impact, and so forth.
This is also why multiplayer is usually better planned and implemented when development starts, instead of at the end, as designing your systems around the idea is more efficient, and creates less problems down the road, than trying to cram it into an already built system. I agree. Something planned from the start it's better. But multiplayer is in place, this is not a new feature altogether. The whole sentence above is strong when you think: "this is a single player game, we are 3 months away from launch, lets try to implement multiplayer" That is not the case for this particular suggestion. But lets see how things go. Consequently, that doesn't stop modders from working out the problem on their own, and finding a way to implement it (as evidenced by multiplayer mods for single player games). Sure. It would be a great addition to the game.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2017
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I agree.
Something planned from the start it's better.
But multiplayer is in place, this is not a new feature altogether. The whole sentence above is strong when you think:
"this is a single player game, we are 3 months away from launch, lets try to implement multiplayer"
That is not the case for this particular suggestion. But lets see how things go. Ah right. That multiplayer part was more of an example. I think multiplayer is currently implemented very exceptionally. I've never played a turn-based tactical RPG where you can just go separate ways and not be forced onto the same screen. That fact alone blew me away in the first game, haha. It's a stark contrast to games like Magica/Helldivers/BroForce, where you're constantly dealing with the edges of play getting in the way of freedom of movement. My main point was that this may be a system (character transfer between different host worlds) that could have possibly been implemented had it been planned from the start, but may now be unreasonable to pursue this close to release. We can only guess of course. I make my assumption based on how characters and save data seem to work in both this game and the previous one. Player characters being locked into your party is one of the bigger indicators. An easy solution I can see is to make new player characters hirelings, and just have the hireling inherit the main character's quest progression and current xp. The character would have to be restricted to custom-only (as hirelings don't have origin stories), you'd have to pick your attributes/ability points/talents again, and your equipment would be whatever the host is willing to give to you, or what you can find. Skills would have to be re-learned. Then if this player leaves, the host can continue to use the character, or place them back into the hireling pool. Basically, new players would just be creating a new character as a hireling in an ongoing save, or picking one they had already made previously. My hope is that we can save our appearance settings at least, and that the host doesn't have to make the hireling for us (as was the case in the first game). That seems like it would be the best solution to avoid most of the problems I listed in my last post. Also, I probably just reiterated what other people have said in this thread. 
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2017
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Also, I probably just reiterated what other people have said in this thread. Stop right there. Not at all !! This is in fact a very nice suggestion wich can be implemented to suffice what can't be made till launch...(or post launch)
Ah right. That multiplayer part was more of an example. I think multiplayer is currently implemented very exceptionally. I've never played a turn-based tactical RPG where you can just go separate ways and not be forced onto the same screen. That fact alone blew me away in the first game, haha. It's a stark contrast to games like Magica/Helldivers/BroForce, where you're constantly dealing with the edges of play getting in the way of freedom of movement.
Yes! I was blow away the first time I saw you could split the party and engage simultaneously different enemys. - Multy And theres of course also room for improvment Player characters being locked into your party is one of the bigger indicators. I never testes that, maybe tonight I see if I can grab a friend to do it. But I believe in you (course) and I do think this is one of the changes most people are going to request and I do think Larian is going to adress soon. Maybe even in the next big patch. The possible solution is to dismiss the player (friend) and the char runs to a specific location.
An easy solution I can see is to make new player characters hirelings, and just have the hireling inherit the main character's quest progression and current xp. The character would have to be restricted to custom-only (as hirelings don't have origin stories), you'd have to pick your attributes/ability points/talents again, and your equipment would be whatever the host is willing to give to you, or what you can find. Skills would have to be re-learned. Then if this player leaves, the host can continue to use the character, or place them back into the hireling pool.
Basically, new players would just be creating a new character as a hireling in an ongoing save, or picking one they had already made previously. My hope is that we can save our appearance settings at least, and that the host doesn't have to make the hireling for us (as was the case in the first game).
That is an elegant solution and quite simple. Of course my suggestion involves that I use my chacr previously created, but that works too.
That seems like it would be the best solution to avoid most of the problems I listed in my last post.
Lets just hope the next release comes with more content, especially for gm mode and multiplayer. Than we can know at what point this whole thread is viable. I just hope they see this, my info, yours and any other good idea. This is just a two day discussion ad we already come up with something. Given time, and this in place who knows. Hopes up :P
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2016
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You are worried about npc character development in the campaing when you could have the most rich possible character (a real person) playing? I rather have someone over an scripted NPC. It's much more fun, engaging and rich.
This makes a ton of sense to me, especially as a lover of P&P. The most interesting NPC in a DM's world will still never outdo another person at the table.
Chaotic neutral, not chaotic stupid.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2013
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Er, no?
I don't see a problem at all join a game with a new name.
There can be only Ifan and thats the host.
I don't even know why bring this particular topic, its a situation that might happen but so what? bring solutions to this.
At every game and every multiplayer I played so far I've seen unique characters. The origin ones are just a bonus in the game, the majority of the player base uses custom and builds its own history.
But if you want your character to be Ifan, then join the host who already has Ifan, someone would have to step back from how they want to play the game. just because most people dont do certain things (here it would be playing with origin characters) doesnt mean that you can just leave the problems unsolved. You would have to invest time discussing/implementing/testing.
It's not an idea, its a hidden script in game already.
Hence why they collect all data in this alpha module.
While the script is already there, i dont know if its already in the save system. Thats why i said its an idea.
Besides, don't overcomplicate things.
If you change your class mid game you can do it too in the host's game.
On a briefing screen or at a vendor. There can be multiple alternatives if you think about it, given time.
I'm just trying to point out scenarios that have to be discussed and possibly implemented/tested. Again, you delivered a solution, which may be good or bad, that causes Discussions, rescources being spent on implementing and time to test things.
Not if you bring a late char to the level of its current host.
Which needs to be discussed, implemented and tested.
You even whatch the dev videos?
Theres one guy especifically working for that.
And I never said singleplayer doesn't need balance, I simply don't care and don't wimp like most.
If I want to play my fighter, even if a wizard is far better, im gonna play my warrior.
Yes i did watch all their videos. Im pretty sure that out of 120+ employees there are more people working on balancing. Especially now. The reason i brought that was because you said this
Theres a Arena..worry about balance there.
There are too many people that think a singleplayer doesnt need to be balanced. So i just wanted to point it out.
Yes this is a suggestion forum, but im (EDIT) not saying that your idea is terrible. There are a lot of games doing what you want very successfully. But this game wasnt designed with importing characters, so it wont be in this game. Its just like real time combat or respawning enemies. You cant just change it a fundamental aspect 3 months before release.
Urgh... I don't get this "import" my character... You dont need to import anything. You just need to join and play a session your friend is playing with your own char. It's a connection in a session. You don't need to download my whole info to stick to that specific host forever and its history. To keep it simple, think as Diablo 3. You are playing with a companion NPC, then someone connects takes the place of that companion and play with you. The guy leaves, the companion comes back. Your characters stats gets imported to the hosts save (even if its only temporarly). "Import" may not be the best term, but it should be good enough. And what if my companion has a personal quest with an NPC that doesnt want to talk to Lizards. You join the game replace the companion with a Lizard (because thats what your character is). And suddenly this quest is broken. That problem can happen another way too. For example. A player joins, sweet talks Butter and leaves afterwards. The Host now doesnt have the option to sweet talk Butter anymore, which might lead to missing out on a quest later in game. Also the system would have to be discussed, implemented, tested. (I really hope that Diablo 3 example was just a joke tbh.)
The game releases in 3 months and isnt done yet. There are still other promised features that need to be implemented/looked at (like full crafting, skill crafting, origins, QA, balancing, kb/m UI needs some fixes, Controller UI, Splitscreen, adn more). With all that its impossible to make that feature until release.
Don't be naive. You are playing an alpha. The real game is in MUCH more advance state. Much of the features you listed are already done. Wait for the next patch to test it. But its not finished. In an older Kickstarter update, Swen mentioned that he only wants to announce the release date when its almost 100% certain that they can ship the game. This feature would delay it. Also Controller UI and Splitscreen are definitly NOT done yet.
Never said this feature needs to be implemented in the first day.
It can be implemented via patches, dlc...
Adding such a feature as a DLC/AddOn/Patch? I would rather wait for a new game that was designed with importing characters.
And what keeps a player playing the game after the end of the campaing?.......
In a good RPG the replayvalue of the campaign imo.
Multiplayer.... make it strong for it to last it long.
Game Master is a good adition, but aditional features are also needed.
Multiplayer is already in and one of the strongest parts of the game. I dont think your suggestions would change that much.
When I say "it's easy" to implement something like this it's because I already played games and I know this is possible. And I'm not talking big games, huge studios like Blizzard, BioWare... I know it's a feature that sure, it takes time to implement, but it's not a game breaking. Thats the base for all this.
Overread this one. Yes its possible. Its very possible to implement this feature. There are so many games out there that have this feature. But you know what? Most of them were designed with having the ability to join others with your character. Thats the problem here. DOS 2 wasnt designed with importing characters. I hope you were able to read one thing out of my reply: The feature itself wouldnt be bad, but because you need to look at so many aspects of the game again (I mean look at how many solutions to possible problems were posted already by people who dont work on the game) its too late for it to be implemented (not even as DLC/Addon/Patch).
An easy solution I can see is to make new player characters hirelings, and just have the hireling inherit the main character's quest progression and current xp. The character would have to be restricted to custom-only (as hirelings don't have origin stories), you'd have to pick your attributes/ability points/talents again, and your equipment would be whatever the host is willing to give to you, or what you can find. Skills would have to be re-learned. Then if this player leaves, the host can continue to use the character, or place them back into the hireling pool.
Basically, new players would just be creating a new character as a hireling in an ongoing save, or picking one they had already made previously. My hope is that we can save our appearance settings at least, and that the host doesn't have to make the hireling for us (as was the case in the first game).
That seems like it would be the best solution to avoid most of the problems I listed in my last post.
Sounds like a good solution for many possible problems (though the different races may be a problem), but just like this whole thread (heck even the one in december 2016), it would be a good addition for sure, but its too late for this game.
You are worried about npc character development in the campaing when you could have the most rich possible character (a real person) playing? I rather have someone over an scripted NPC. It's much more fun, engaging and rich.
This makes a ton of sense to me, especially as a lover of P&P. The most interesting NPC in a DM's world will still never outdo another person at the table. I never played P&P games, but have a question: Is it common for such a game to have other player controlled characters joining an already started game without the GM knowing it?
[Insert something funny here]
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
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I like how Raze already said that the system that the guy wants in isn't gonna -be- in because it's not something that would work with the game and he's all like "Nope, it definitely can and should be in."
Like yeah, first he says he doesn't care what the rest of us think if we disagree because we're not the developers. So then one of the developers comes in, says it won't work, and he just... ignores the man?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
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I will say that it would be nice to be able to keep your characters on GM mode and bring them to other people's sessions. Right now the host (I'm pretty sure) has all the characters. Of course, this still has some problems, and the game isn't designed for it, but IMO that would be a feature actually worth pursuing. Zero expectations about that happening though.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
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He's clearly a young player. He's thrashing around like a child on a forum with logical failings, childish reasoning and pig-headed stubborness. He wants something and isn't above alienating himself to get attention. All hallmark signs of immaturity. Let this post necro and die. The OP is irrational and results to insults. Not someone we need to waste our time on. There are actual issues with the game that need fixing. This is no time to have a developer go out of his way to waste his time trying to convince an angry child about something.
Last edited by Fluffington; 13/06/17 06:47 PM.
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Duchess of Gorgombert
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Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
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Can we keep it civil, please?
J'aime le fromage.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2017
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He's clearly a young player. He's thrashing around like a child on a forum with logical failings, childish reasoning and pig-headed stubborness. He wants something and isn't above alienating himself to get attention. All hallmark signs of immaturity. Let this post necro and die. The OP is irrational and results to insults. Not someone we need to waste our time on. There are actual issues with the game that need fixing. This is no time to have a developer go out of his way to waste his time trying to convince an angry child about something. This coming from a guy named "Fluffington"...right. If i wanted, I could keep this topic as much as I want. There's not point in that anymore, the team I needed to watch this already did so its lived to its porpose. This is still a suggestion that I want implemented, either by official means or mods. And If I find any new reasons or idead, I will reply untill it's done. But right now I have other concerns witch I'm adressing with reviews and new suggestions, you know, actually trying to make the game better instead of coming here saying bs. So take your knob boat and go back to your little rant in the "Re: Magic Skills Balance" thread.
Last edited by RodrigoRRP; 14/06/17 07:29 AM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
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More name-calling and insults, hilarious. Also way more misspelling.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2017
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Feeling lonely Trace? It´s kinda sad the lack of attention ppl are giving to you.
You can talk to me in private, I'll be your friend.
About the misspelling, you can choose beetween english, portuguese, spanish and and bit of deutsch, whatever suits your needs.
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Duchess of Gorgombert
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Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
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Play nicely, guys, or toys may be taken away.
J'aime le fromage.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2016
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Fair enough Vometia, I was getting out of hand. Still, my main point is that it's definitely not simple to code new features into how saves are handled such as importing / exporting characters for use in multiple worlds, so if it's added at all it'll have to be via mods after release.
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Duchess of Gorgombert
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Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
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I agree with you: as frustrated as I get with incompatible saves, it's often more trouble than it's worth if they can be loaded. I'm thinking of even relatively minor things like installing and uninstalling mods on e.g. Bethesda games which is possible to do with existing saves but it really is a case of "on your own head be it": even when attempting to carefully disentangle yourself it can come back and bite you further down the line. BTDT more often than I'd like.
In this case I dare say that the changes between alpha versions are more significant than changing a mod, and even if they did work, not having a clean start would render much of the purpose of an EA rather irrelevant.
J'aime le fromage.
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