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#607984 25/08/17 01:33 AM
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Really what the hell is Larian thinking? No class even comes close to the damage, maneuverability. Combine that with poly skin graft and why even bother playing anything but rouge. Make 4 rouges and you could beat the game blind. PLEASE fix back stab, do 50% more damage not auto crit. Which you gave 150%-200% more damage to daggers. Such a glaring overpowered poorly thought out design...

Honestly made an account just to complain about this. My 2hder ,duelwielder and ranger do 20-40 amage per attack and the rouge just walks in teleports behind does 80+, normal attacks for another 60+, then tosses out the daggers for another 40+. Does more damage than my whole team combined.

On a side note, just pick 4 elves screw the passives for other abilities. 10% more attack +1 AP for what? 1 constitution? Clearly someone at Larian has an elf fetish to want every person to pick and play one.

Last edited by Dtrooper; 25/08/17 02:51 AM.
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Elf and rogue are OP... but human is still useful for summoners at least...

Last edited by Adrianna; 25/08/17 01:37 AM.
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What level are your characters ?

If your 2hander or ranger do 20-40, you probably have a problem with their spec or gear.
Yeah Rogue are OP mainly because the dagger throw does twice as much damage as it probably should, however my 2hander has 34% crit chance and hits for 200 damage (regular, not even counting the +50% from warfare on Armor).

My elf rogue does about 160 with a regular backstab with flesh sacrifice on (does more with her skills).
So yeah mortal Blow is insanely strong but this is a single target source skill and the dagger throw, ... well it probably should only do half the damage it currently does. I think this is a bug but we'll see.

So basically my warrior does much more damage when the target has armor but then the rogue become superior.

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I'm only level 8 at the marshes right now. All the characters have level appropriate gear, I think the crossbow on ranger is the strongest. It wouldn't be nearly so bad if they just fixed back stab to not 100% crit chance. Do what it did in divinity 1, 50% more damage and then if your crit chance does proc make it do the bonus 150%. Otherwise there is no point to rogue crit chance if it's guaranteed from back stab. Broken mechanic. With that said it's still alpha maybe they will fix it before they release in a super troll update. And then laugh as the rogues tears fill there goblets to feast on!

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And at level 8 your character should do much more damage than that. The number I told you were from level 8 Characters as well.

That's the entire point of the rogue to guarantee critical hits and yes, you should focus your stats on something else rather than crit chance on your rogue.

You say the rogue is OP but what you suggest would make it even more powerful so, ...

Last edited by Deadknight; 25/08/17 05:17 AM. Reason: Misread
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I have some problems with such statements. It is the task of a rogue to do much damage. Same for a two-handed warrior who also has some cc in addition usually.

Overpowered? Maybe. Or not. Can he even solo the game? Maybe. What about mages who can solo the game for sure? Not overpowered?

If the high damage of Throwing Knife is a bug they should change it. Perhaps they also change the stuns and slowing of surfaces and such in the game.

Last edited by geala; 25/08/17 09:53 AM.
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[Linked Image]

Now seriously, guys i think that everybody knows that elf-rogues have the best damage output of the game but i don't think that it is a issue so painfull for doing a post about it every 5 days.

If you think they are so OP that they destroy the game balance simply don't pick them. I have never play a rogue, because i don't like that class since D&D and i have not fell that the game has lost anything. My last play was with a party of full invoquers and it was just fine even if everyone consider they are UP.

They probably know that backstabing is to powerfull and it will probably be nerfed has teleport will be and rage was. Just don't panic.

Last edited by vometia; 25/08/17 02:47 PM. Reason: formatting
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Even if a class/combo is OP, you don't have to play it. Play whatever is the most entertaining to you.
Is only a gaem, why u heff to be mad?

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Rogue is single-target, warrior and mages are AoE.

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I hear Chat Engine is overpowered like Godmode.
really it should be nerfed.

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Originally Posted by HombreFelipe
Even if a class/combo is OP, you don't have to play it. Play whatever is the most entertaining to you.
Is only a gaem, why u heff to be mad?


Tbh, I hate arguements like this, because it discredits any arguement around balance and simply says "If you don't like it/think its broken, dont play it". In fact, the question shouldn't be "Why not ignore OP class?" and instead be "Why should I play any other class?". If the game provides little to no incentive to play the underpowered class, then the balance should be a concern.

Originally Posted by Wouter445
I hear Chat Engine is overpowered like Godmode.
really it should be nerfed.


You might not care if the games even remotely balanced, but that doesn't mean other people don't care. The fact that bad balance and super abuseable mechanics still exist in this game is pretty bad for the games quality as a whole, and undermines any effort the team puts into developing a variety of options and strategies when one option is way better than the rest.

But go ahead, compare playing an overpowered class to using a cheat engine. I'm curious to hear how they're even remotely similar.


Last edited by BraccusaurusRex; 25/08/17 05:37 PM.
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Originally Posted by BraccusaurusRex
Originally Posted by HombreFelipe
Even if a class/combo is OP, you don't have to play it. Play whatever is the most entertaining to you.
Is only a gaem, why u heff to be mad?


Tbh, I hate arguements like this, because it discredits any arguement around balance and simply says "If you don't like it/think its broken, dont play it". In fact, the question shouldn't be "Why not ignore OP class?" and instead be "Why should I play any other class?". If the game provides little to no incentive to play the underpowered class, then the balance should be a concern.

Originally Posted by Wouter445
I hear Chat Engine is overpowered like Godmode.
really it should be nerfed.


You might not care if the games even remotely balanced, but that doesn't mean other people don't care. The fact that bad balance and super abuseable mechanics still exist in this game is pretty bad for the games quality as a whole, and undermines any effort the team puts into developing a variety of options and strategies when one option is way better than the rest.

But go ahead, compare playing an overpowered class to using a cheat engine. I'm curious to hear how they're even remotely similar.



Quite funny consider the game is not released and stated that EA is anything but balanced.
Best what devs can do is give players a abstract of balance nothing can be balanced their is always a tactics, winning strategic or just mechanical braking point to this game and all games released before or after Divinity.

just like they nerfed teleport now they chanced range meaning all chests you can teleport with it would likely be out of range thanks to cry baby's
up for the mods to fix what was not broken

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The MAIN problem with rogue is as i said in the beginning is the guaranteed CRIT from back attacks. Daggers have a 150-200% bonus (from what ive seen so far) to crit. What is the point of going crit build for rogues? you already get 100% crit, the cool down for the warp backstab is a stupidly low 2 turns. REMOVE 100% crit chance to back stabs, make it do more damage a bonus 50%, and IF you want it to crit you need to improve your crit chance with Wit and Gear. OR alternatively leave the 100% crit in but remove duel wielding for daggers. Also as someone else mentioned that dagger throw skill needs a hard nerf as well.

Meanwhile my incarnate does 10 damage a hit even when buffed and when it dies and i have to wait 10 turns to summon again? Rogues can teleport behind people every 2 turns and 1 shot everything. Someone at larian must see how broken this is.

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Originally Posted by Dtrooper
The MAIN problem with rogue is as i said in the beginning is the guaranteed CRIT from back attacks. Daggers have a 150-200% bonus (from what ive seen so far) to crit. What is the point of going crit build for rogues? you already get 100% crit, the cool down for the warp backstab is a stupidly low 2 turns. REMOVE 100% crit chance to back stabs, make it do more damage a bonus 50%, and IF you want it to crit you need to improve your crit chance with Wit and Gear. OR alternatively leave the 100% crit in but remove duel wielding for daggers. Also as someone else mentioned that dagger throw skill needs a hard nerf as well.

Meanwhile my incarnate does 10 damage a hit even when buffed and when it dies and i have to wait 10 turns to summon again? Rogues can teleport behind people every 2 turns and 1 shot everything. Someone at larian must see how broken this is.


Their are people also playing Rogue type based on range
Also backstab also request close combat and most of the time environments are less then ideal.

so it might be weird for Crit to pick for a "rogue" type of gameplay but that's how you CHOOSE to play.

Last edited by Wouter445; 25/08/17 06:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by BraccusaurusRex
Tbh, I hate arguements like this, because it discredits any arguement around balance and simply says "If you don't like it/think its broken, dont play it". In fact, the question shouldn't be "Why not ignore OP class?" and instead be "Why should I play any other class?". If the game provides little to no incentive to play the underpowered class, then the balance should be a concern.

I dunno, it does sound like it's being seen almost as an exploit so I can see the reason for the comparison. From my perspective I guess the incentive is to not do something you don't enjoy: I suppose I would view playing as a class you feel to be overpowered as much the same as playing on the easiest difficulty and then complaining that it's not hard enough. Then again, I have actually seen someone saying exactly that.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not actually a very skilled tactician or combatant but I'd rather lower the difficulty or deal with it than adopt a style of gameplay that doesn't agree with me. I suppose in that latter regard I'm surprised anyone would do otherwise.


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Rogue type as range? You cant even use the skills since it clearly states daggers/knives only... Lol suuuuure

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Originally Posted by Dtrooper
The MAIN problem with rogue is as i said in the beginning is the guaranteed CRIT from back attacks. Daggers have a 150-200% bonus (from what ive seen so far) to crit. What is the point of going crit build for rogues? you already get 100% crit, the cool down for the warp backstab is a stupidly low 2 turns. REMOVE 100% crit chance to back stabs, make it do more damage a bonus 50%, and IF you want it to crit you need to improve your crit chance with Wit and Gear. OR alternatively leave the 100% crit in but remove duel wielding for daggers. Also as someone else mentioned that dagger throw skill needs a hard nerf as well.

Meanwhile my incarnate does 10 damage a hit even when buffed and when it dies and i have to wait 10 turns to summon again? Rogues can teleport behind people every 2 turns and 1 shot everything. Someone at larian must see how broken this is.


Doing 50% more damage or doing 150% total damage is the same increase.
Making the rogue auto crit at least prevents them from doing backstab AND crit at the same time.
Yes there is no point in having a rogue with high crit chance really but what you propose (give them 50% increase AND the ability to crit) will make them even more powerful than they are and yet you complain they are too strong.

Your argument doesn't really make sense.

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Deadknight i dont think you understand how numbers work. You start with 0% crit, you would need to amass gear and points into wit which would take away from the finesse dump that rogues do now since you get 100% crit rate on back stab. Starting off lvl 1 and having 100% crit rate on your attacks is stupid. Which would be the trade off lower damage for higher crit. IF you crit you do the 150% bonus, So no you wouldn't do more damage. Daggers i've seen go as high as 186% (probably go even higher) more damage from crit, they also duel wield which means they are doing 372% damage per back stab. Explain to me how you think this is the same.

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Originally Posted by Dtrooper
Deadknight i dont think you understand how numbers work. You start with 0% crit, you would need to amass gear and points into wit which would take away from the finesse dump that rogues do now since you get 100% crit rate on back stab. Starting off lvl 1 and having 100% crit rate on your attacks is stupid. Which would be the trade off lower damage for higher crit. IF you crit you do the 150% bonus, So no you wouldn't do more damage. Daggers i've seen go as high as 186% (probably go even higher) more damage from crit, they also duel wield which means they are doing 372% damage per back stab. Explain to me how you think this is the same.


You clearly don't understand how the game works.

One crit does 150% of your total damage based on your weapon (sometimes it is 200%).
It is NOT +150% it is a TOTAL of 150% so an increase of 50%.
Then dual wielding also has -50% base damage on the off hand.
Dual wielding daggers already have a lower base damage compared to 2handed or dual wielding sword of the same quality.

At level 8 white quality items:
2 Handed sword base damages: 23-28
Main hand dagger: 13-14 + Off hand dagger (13-14)/2 (-50% from dual wielding) = 19 - 21

So a 2 handed sword has about 25% more base damage and Warrior have a skill (enrage) to have 100% crit chance for 2 turns (tool tips says 1 but this is effectively 2).

Guess who does more damage with auto attacks ?

If you allow rogues to crit (+50% damage in average) on top of the backstab (+50% as you propose) then you will have rogues with enrage (to have 100% crit chance) to deal even greater damage than anyone would think of.

What's broken about the rogue isn't the backstab mechanics it is some of their skills:
- Throwing Dagger Should not be able to trigger its damage twice.
- Backlash should have lower damage or take 2 action points (that is a teleport - usually 1 ap - that does the damage of a basic attack - 2 ap). For 1 ap you have a move that usually requires 3 ap with other skills. Making the other Rogue movement skill pretty useless especially since you can use it every other turn.
- Mortal Strike should not be able to backstab or have sneak damage reduced x3 instead of x5. With guerilla and a 200% crit damage dagger (with scoundrel spec) you can one shot many bosses.
- Sawtooth Knife should not be able to backstab or have base damage value lowered. It is an attack that already does more damage than a basic attack and that ignores armor and transform weapon magic damage into physical damage (I love this). With skin graft you can again kill many bosses when you use it twice you can do about 350-400 health damage at level 7 or 8. The cloaked figure has 380 HP on the boat...

Last edited by Deadknight; 26/08/17 06:33 PM.
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I bet the game isn't even going to be the same once it releases.

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