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#608497 01/09/17 12:40 AM
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After seeing the latest update and twitch stream -- what are some new things that you see? Comment below so that we can compile all these goodies.

- It seems like Fane is the only one who gets Time Warp. The custom origin seems to get Dome of Protection.

- Some new skills available at creation -- Pinning Shot, Shield Throw (that is just my guess from the icon).

- Different voice types that you can chose for your character such as Scholar or Funny

On a side note I'm really excited to play undead. I think Play Dead and the immunity to Death Fog will be a huge benefit throughout the game.

Kresky #608515 01/09/17 01:36 AM
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I'm also hype for the undead race. I'm likely to play as Fane my first full game playthrough, and as an undead lizard or elf in most of the GM Mode games that I get to be part of.


Kresky #608530 01/09/17 06:02 AM
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/171233930

If you jump to about 1:49:00 Swen shows a skills list. I should note that this was while in GM Mode, but I think it is a safe bet of what we will see on the campaign side.

- Skin graft looks like it will take two memory slots and cost a source point to use

Kresky #608547 01/09/17 07:29 AM
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I have written this in other post, but here it will make more sence, so here is my observation and thanks to BraccusaurusRex and Nuked to point things out

There is no racial points, but now it depends on class. You can see it on the stream at 00:12:34 when Swen goes to "Preset" tab and you can see that it says "Wizard" Attributes which can be changed (in that case +2 Int and +1 Con) and also you are able to change combat AND civil abilities.

Tried to get all about this changes. Seems like for alive races they still have that +Civil point like Bartering for Humans (can be seen on lvl up point distribution at 01:11:45)

But I have new question. Since we have 3 ability points to distribute by our own will without depending on race, what does those racial talents give us now? On character creation we see that Lizards are still Sophisticated and Humans are Ingenious.

Also, you can see that for Undeads they receive exactly those talents and not those that give you +Civil ability. EXCEPT for Undead Elves, they have Corpse Eater.

Kresky #608570 01/09/17 08:58 AM
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Taken from the Steam forums:

Quote

-Stunning abilities now apply a status effect called shock to their targets. In order for a character to be stunned they need to be hit by a stunning ability while shocked. This means you essentially have to 'stun' them twice. I believe they said the same concept applies to chilled/frozen as well.

-Necromancy abilities will heal the undead

-They fixed dagger throw bug and nerfed elf rogues.

-Warfare will have at least one taunt ability.

-Undead cannot bleed

-The familiar from summoning will grow larger as you gain power.

-Tooltips for the two new huntsman abilities that Swen used:
Elemental arrowheads
Pin Down

Last edited by Bukke; 01/09/17 08:58 AM.
Kresky #608572 01/09/17 09:06 AM
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In the vid (1:49:37) Bless now requires a source point.
I appreciate playing Arena surfaces gets changed a lot with Bless!
But that is also part of the strategy.
Necessary change for play balance?? Im not sure (related to Undead being harmed by blessed surfaces, I sense an Undead conspiracy)

Kresky #608583 01/09/17 09:41 AM
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Bless needs a source point? What a crap. They go much too far with the alleged balancing. It's such a pity that DOS2 has multiplayer parts. I hope it is only in fights, then I can live with it. My most use of Bless is changing annoying oil surfaces out of combat.


Last edited by geala; 01/09/17 09:42 AM.
geala #608597 01/09/17 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by geala
Bless needs a source point? What a crap. They go much too far with the alleged balancing.

I'm not happy about it either, but not surprised: I mean there's been a chorus of people regularly demanding that this, that and the other are nerfed for ages now. Hopefully things won't have been hammered too flat as a result.


J'aime le fromage.
Kresky #608598 01/09/17 11:49 AM
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It looks like the undead race got even more love than the elves did.

I hope, they improved the others races for the final release, otherwise they will feel really shallow?

Kresky #608600 01/09/17 11:56 AM
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Definitely not a fan of Bless requiring a source skill, especially not when it (to me) mainly was used to negate the rampant cursed surface(s) the enemies spit out every other encounter. Not to mention that you also often have to bless random NPCs/objects in order to complete many minor quests.
I realise that there's going to be multiple ways to obtain source in the final release and that it'll be possible to have multiple source points at the same time, but I must admit I'm still not too happy about that change.

I hoped that Bless requiring source points to cast was a GM mode exclusive thing, but after re-watching the Gamescom video it does indeed seem like it's going to be require one source point in the real game as well. At 5:10 in the video Swen demonstrates the bless ability by having Sebille cast it on a fire surface. Sebille's source point is immediately consumed afterwards.

Kresky #608607 01/09/17 12:43 PM
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Bless and curse requiring source points is insanely dumb for multiple reasons.
* Bless is required to do the hellfire pig quest, and you need to bless roughly 7 pigs.
* Bless is required in order to leave the Hall of Echoes, and if you used a source ability during the Dallis fight you are now stuck.
*Even if you did have a source point I always bless the other gods first before my own to hear what they have to say. Its highly likely more people will do the same as me. Not realizing it would lead to a dead game.
* Bless is needed to remove the necrofire on the historian in the gargoyle maze.
* Bless is needed to make surfaces harmless after a fight otherwise friendly and neutral npc's will start attacking you.
* You need to have bless to prove to Mylady that you are a Godwoken.
*Bless and curse aren't even remotely close to being op because they can both benefit and hinder you at the same time depending on the situation.
I am certain I'm forgetting even more reasons this change to bless and curse is dumb.

Bless and curse are really interesting mechanics, and it would genuinely suck if they were locked by a source point wall, and it would make quests even more tedious for no reason. I am begging you guys on the Larian balancing to please change it back! Nothing good will come of it.

Last edited by Damashi; 01/09/17 01:34 PM.
Kresky #608609 01/09/17 01:00 PM
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They also made skill books cost twice as much as they do in the early access, which i'm really, REALLY not ok with. I feel that the economy in the early access version is perfect, and this change will really punish memory focused characters, and hybrid characters, just like it did when A.I 2.0 first dropped, which made the game insanely frustrating, and unfun to play at times, because you couldn't prepare for fights how you wanted due to everything being too expensive.

I actually had to restart because the game had become unwinnable during that playthrough, because I had to blow all my money on buying skills to complete my builds, but I didn't have the money to buy gear to not get one-shot by everything.

Its highly unlikely the economy will be THAT busted again on release, but it does genuinely make me worried that the release build will be less fun than whats on early access.

Really hoping they will still be keeping attribute requirments for gear, and skill requirements low like they are on EA. My biggest fear is that Jack of All trades, and hybrid characters will become a different, but equal kinda of frustrating that they were in D:OS1. Right now on EA the cost of being a hybrid or a Jack of All Trades character is fair. You are slower and do way less damage, but in exchange you have more options, so you are just as formidable, but in a different way.

Last edited by Damashi; 01/09/17 01:15 PM.
Kresky #608621 01/09/17 02:37 PM
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You can expect to not be able to go straight for your 'build' anyway, because in EA there were no skill requirements and in the fullgame they probably are to be expected like in the first game.

Kalrakh #608622 01/09/17 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
You can expect to not be able to go straight for your 'build' anyway, because in EA there were no skill requirements and in the fullgame they probably are to be expected like in the first game.

There are skill requirements they are just low, which why I liked it. Im not against it being in entirely, but it should be a steady increase. Skill requirement shouldn't just suddenly jump up to 3 and 4 as soon as we hit act 2.

Kresky #608630 01/09/17 03:39 PM
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We should keep in mind that these are conclusions that we are drawing from the evidence provided. In some cases all we can see is the Icon, AP cost, or Memory Slots -- the actually Bless skill could a much more powerful spell than the one we know in early access. Also, it is very possible that the puzzles in EA that require Bless have been changed to facilitate this change (either not require Bless or make Source more available).

By the way, when Swen picks Thievery and says "you know why"-- I know he meant the fact that Undead don't need lockpicks, but I kept thinking about just how stupidly strong it is in EA.

Kresky #608636 01/09/17 04:29 PM
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When you reach the harbour of fort joy you have virtually unlmited lockpick since you have so many nails and Nails+ hammer = 4 lockpick so.

That doesn't make much of a difference even in EA.

Kresky #608637 01/09/17 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kresky
We should keep in mind that these are conclusions that we are drawing from the evidence provided. In some cases all we can see is the Icon, AP cost, or Memory Slots -- the actually Bless skill could a much more powerful spell than the one we know in early access. Also, it is very possible that the puzzles in EA that require Bless have been changed to facilitate this change (either not require Bless or make Source more available).

By the way, when Swen picks Thievery and says "you know why"-- I know he meant the fact that Undead don't need lockpicks, but I kept thinking about just how stupidly strong it is in EA.

As far as I can tell from footage I've seen of the release version bless works exactly the same except it now requires a source point.

Even if source is more available you will have to spend around 7 source points on that 1 pig quest alone, and source is a finite resource even if it is more readily available in later acts as the devs claim. A person playing a single character would have to back track to that area multiple times just to complete it, because the max you can hold in a character without source orbs is 3, and you can't even hold that much to start, because for the first 9 levels you can only hold 1.

What is the point on giving feedback on all the act 1 quests that involved bless, or how the balance of act 1 feels, if they were just going to throw all that out in the release? The whole point of Early Access is to gather feedback, and iterate on ideas until they are as close to perfect as possible. We have a right to express concern when we see changes we don't like, or feel ruin something we think is already great in the early access.

Last edited by Damashi; 01/09/17 04:43 PM.
Kresky #608646 01/09/17 04:57 PM
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@Deadknight I don't care much for free lockpicks for that reason you mention. What I was trying to imply is Thievery for the pickpocketing.

@Damashi I'm on your side -- I'm just trying to see it from a different perspective to make some sense of it. The bless puzzles could be in EA to test the cleanse mechanic and now the pigs will just be normal burning pigs. It's a weak argument and so is the more source points one -- but it's really all I can see at this moment.

Kresky #608685 01/09/17 08:33 PM
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i liked bless the way it was, if bless requires a source point then there's a lot of thing we will locked out of on act I, which is silly

Kresky #608689 01/09/17 09:23 PM
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From the combat perspective I like bless requiring a source point. I always avoided using it in EA because of how op it was. I do hope they reworked puzzles to account for the change.

Skillbook cost being higher is nice. I hope they also added higher requirements for stronger skills. It was too easy to grab the strongest utility skills from each school.

Skin graft being a source skill is great. This ability should have never existed the way it was in EA. Now, I hope adrenaline was made harder to get on every hero.

Stun changes are nice though I wish they just reworked hard cc. I hope knockdown received a similar nerrf though, otherwise it's still too easy to cc-lock.

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