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I love the armor system, but I don't like how some skills, such as taunt, are made absolutely worthless by it. A few skills need to pierce the armor(s), that's for sure.
I also hate how AI will stop at nothing to CC someone with glass cannon regardless of how much armor they actually have. Also makes me annoyed to even bother having a tank.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
I don't see the point of posting this poll now instead of at the start of Early Access. It ain't changing drastically at this point, that ship sank a long time ago.

Honestly, though, during the beta, I did try to think of a better system, and I couldn't.
Really? It took the RPG Codex, like, 10 minutes. Partial resistance based on remaining armor. Boom. Done.

Also, a lot of effects should simply ignore armor altogether. The fact that Taunts bounce off someone's plate-mail is insanely ridiculous.

A fully binary system is horrible. I'd rather cast Charm 10 times at complete randomness.

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Quote
Partial resistance based on remaining armor. Boom. Done.

Already suggested by me during Ea.

Its not something the devs couldnt figure out themselves.
They made their choice intentionally.

So no amount of suggestions will change that. Especially now when the game is selling very well and the new mass market audience spam their "enjoyment" all over.

btw, the poll is ridiculous garbage which consists of three l "i like the system!!!" even one where you apparently "like" the system but would want major overhauls...
And one "I hate it!" option, with no further clarification or explanation, -

Liking DOS1 more is irrelevant as well as "no opinon whatsoever".


Last edited by Hiver; 20/09/17 04:04 AM.
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Linio Offline OP
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Thanks for calling me a deranged hypocrite, when you're saying earlier that you think the armor system should be changed.
Jesus, people in this thread.

Quote

Its not something the devs couldnt figure out themselves.
They made their choice intentionally.

So no amount of suggestions will change that. Especially now when the game is selling very well and the new mass market audience spam their "enjoyment" all over.


To me this is exactly the problem, and yeah, of course a poll will be biased, I mean, I did what I could, I don't see how puting "It is perfect", and "I hate it" together is pointing towards an answer, but hey, that's just me. You can't possibily have context from a poll, it's just a way of having some kind of view of a general opinion.

That will be my last post in here, I just wanted to show Larian that maybe the system needed change, and I think this is exactly what it shows, of course it's subjective, I mean heck, I like the idea of the system myself, just not the system as it is now. I think what they tried to do to change the way it was done in the first opus was just a good idea, but the execution is horribly wrong. And I'd rather see it changed for the better, but as of today, I'd rather play the first one...

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Regardless of completely or partial immunity discussion regarding Armor and Magic armor, I personally think taunt should **always pierce armor**. It really makes zero sense that throwing an insult at someone would be blocked by armor.

"Hey Guard Captain! YOU SUCK!"
"Words don't hurt my feelings bro, I have this plate armor on - it protects me against your cruel words"

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That is, why I like Willpower, it made far more sense to resist because of high willpower than everything now.

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The only real problem I have with this, is that you have to focus on a single damage type for your whole party, the one and only change I really want to see is to make it so that different damage types can be used.

My suggestions would be, if Physical Armor reaches 0 than magic damage will deal 25% of its damage to vitality and 75% to the magic armor, and same other way around. The requirements to CC someone with a damage type remain the same, but this would allow teams to be 3 of one type and 1 of another.

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I really don't like the system. I feel it it against having a mixed team. It feels like you need your team speced to smash away at either physical or magic, especially on tactician.. Like, where's the tactics in that?

I set myself up in a good place that tunneled the bad guys, set up rain, starting out with lightning, and every one of the 6 of them ran through the huge puddle taking magic damage (Down to probably half magic armour) and proceeded to then slaughter my team as they obviously still all had full physical, half magic and passed all my CC (Which more cc would be useless because half of them were right in the middle of my group) (I have - 1 fighter, 1 ranger, 1 cleric/necro, 1 CC mage - (Had, don't really see how I can continue with the party make up the way it is smirk )).

I personally feel the dos 1 version was better and would of only needed some refining.

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Originally Posted by Linio
Thanks for calling me a deranged hypocrite, when you're saying earlier that you think the armor system should be changed.
Jesus, people in this thread.


Ah sorry, the poll looks like you tried to lean it towards "new system is great" while only other options is "i hate it!" as if its just an emotional issue so... i didnt process that nicely.

Its all the "im having fun therefore this is great!" logic ive been exposed to.

And i definitely need to get off the internet for a while.


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Originally Posted by Littlebob86
I really don't like the system. I feel it it against having a mixed team. It feels like you need your team speced to smash away at either physical or magic, especially on tactician.. Like, where's the tactics in that?

I set myself up in a good place that tunneled the bad guys, set up rain, starting out with lightning, and every one of the 6 of them ran through the huge puddle taking magic damage (Down to probably half magic armour) and proceeded to then slaughter my team as they obviously still all had full physical, half magic and passed all my CC (Which more cc would be useless because half of them were right in the middle of my group) (I have - 1 fighter, 1 ranger, 1 cleric/necro, 1 CC mage - (Had, don't really see how I can continue with the party make up the way it is smirk )).

I personally feel the dos 1 version was better and would of only needed some refining.


Meh, I am playing with summoning+warfare, classic shadowblade, wayfarer+pyro and classic enchanter... and it works just fine, its all about target prioritization, typical rock/paper/scissors.

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The armor system is actually quite fun and I don't understand the thing about people saying you need to stack a single damage type. Enemies most of the time have huge differences in armor so you have to focus different targets with different types of damage which actually makes it more tactical than just focusing everything on single most dangerous target every time. I'm running a 4 elemental school spellcaster, a huntsman, sword and board guy and a scoundrel and so far I haven't been cockblocked completely out of the game at any point on tactician.

The bigger issue with the whole combat system is CC being ridiculously overpowered. When you have mobs with 5k health while rest are usually in 500-1k range there's not much to do except to burn the armor that's lower down quickly and chain spam CC on the enemies. Maybe it's simpler on lower difficulties but that's my experience in general pretty much. The game would benefit overall more with a nerf to all kinds of CC effects while reducing some mob power levels.

Either way, I enjoy the combat system much more compared to OS1 which got really boring in the end game. Especially the spell variety is such a god sent, most of the difficult fights require some real setting up to deal with which is quite fun as well.

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Linio Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hiver

Its all the "im having fun therefore this is great!" logic ive been exposed to.

And i definitely need to get off the internet for a while.


I hear you. I also kind of hate the "If you don't like it, mod it" propaganda.

A little bit off topic, it's been a while I've prepared a setup to play with 3 friends, one of whom I played the first opus, and two "newbies". The hype was very strong, we installed two big ass TVs at my place, and we do gaming sessions together.
Honestly between these issues with how the new system is a little bit off and the general bugs on the controller version, I am not having much fun, and the sessions are getting a little bit frustrating, hence this topic, and the fact that I must too be on the edge.

No harm no foul bro, stay on the internet, I'm pretty sure we have all good things to say on the system and maybe Larian will pick up on some of those.

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It is generally fine, although I would prefer it to just be "armor", so that there won't be targets that are pointless to hit with magic or physical.

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Those of you saying the armor system is fine, I thought so too.

Then I encountered Lohsee's Demon, who had 17k armor and 22k magic armor, with 11k health (that was halved, there's a way to halve it from 22k health, 34k armor, 44k magic armro). The other bosses in the area had 4k armor, 6k health, and 5k magic armor...

Did I mention he has perseverance? 30% armor or magic armor restored after he recovers...

7k or 14k armor restored if he recovers... (he usually buffs himself)

Something needs to be looked into perseverance at least, it's kind ridiculous on a boss that can two shot the entire group with aoe source skills (that aren't dodge-able, I have 50% dodge on every character), and has unlimited source points...

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The rules of armor are too simple: it's either work or doesn't.
Each spell/ability should have an individual logical formulae that describes if it will work or not. And armor can be a part of these formulas along the way with caster/target stats and whatnot.

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Formulas and such are nice, but very confusing for casual players who just wanna start the game and play it.. I mean, divinity is hard now for beginners, adding some crazy formulas would make it even more convoluted

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Oddly enough, I played with casual/beginners players for both the first and the second game, and although the first was okay (I must say, my friend kind of liked the CC madness, she liked inflicting things that mattered to the enemies, so maybe not our ideal candidate but a category of players too), although my friends have a hard time wraping their head around the armor system as a whole. I wouldn't say it's more accessible than the first. The first was more opaque, so people not willing to crunch down the numbers would just play it, now you do have to understand the whole armor system in order to actually do some damage. I for one do not dislike it, but I wouldn't call the armor system newbie-friendly in regard of this.

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it would be nice if physical DD could get some mechanics to convert their phys damage to magical. Something like "let_the_sword_be_cold_as_ice(hot_as_fire)" buff from mage, so mages wouldn't stand still and do nothing in fights where enemy magical armor is too high. And it would be nice if mages had additional phys armor damage at their spells, so their CC-constituent still wouldn't pass until magical armor is here but they (mages) would be useful in battles with tough phys armor enemies and add more sense that enemy SHOULD get some physical damage from spell projectile (ball of fire\falling rock\ice lump\burn from electric bolt).
Now the game is forcing us to concentrate on only mages or only physical party for maximum effectiveness, what is not good for the game that claims total freedom. Thats the main problem of this system - mixed parties is not so effective as pure. That is artificial limitations and imbalance.

Last edited by Sergey Butsenov; 20/09/17 02:22 PM.
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It's not that I can't work around it. It's just that I heartily dislike the game's all-or-nothing, anti-hybrid approach to armor. Having certain abilities be all but useless against certain types of enemies can be interesting, so long as it doesn't become a tax applied only to mages or only to physical damage dealers, and it doesn't happen too often. The occasional creature with immunity to fire or piercing damage is fine. Resistances are fine. I find not being able to do anything until a creature is unarmored against the type of CC or damage a character can apply to be frustrating, not fun. It's not that having your party adapt to the occasional creature with such defenses wouldn't be interesting. It's that it makes for poor fare as a steady diet. I much prefer playing a party with varied abilities, both individually and collectively. I find it totally unfun to find myself debating whether to spec a character in a way that seems to go against their nature so that they can contribute efficiently to a magic- or physical-damage party.

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Guys! I'm so happy! A mod reducing the armour amounts and buffing health instead! smile

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139221227&searchtext=

Last edited by Littlebob86; 20/09/17 04:33 PM.
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