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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2017
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You know what? i think that the whole point of this thread is about comparing e-penis. I mean, all the comparisons with mods didnt work because, if you use a mod, you cant (unless you're liar) tell "i beat the game in tactician/honour mode!", because you actually played a modified version of the game. You cant really brag of your playthrough. Same argument with difficult. Explorer mode is far more easy than tactician, but nobody complain saying "it's not fair, some player could abuse this difficult system to make their game easier!". Why? because, in that case, you cant say "i finished the game on the hardest mode!". So, the point is that there are free respecs on every difficult, and there's isnt a "no respecs mode". If there was such modality, i think nobody would complain about that, because in that case they will just raise over the "just tactician respecs" plebs.
The whole point is that if there is some "make easier" mechanic in one game, generally the hardcore player want some tag/achievement/medal to beat the game without using it. Maybe I don't care about achievements and e-penis and want to play a game that doesn't water down it's RPG mechanics? Maybe I shouldn't have to mod a game to fix an obviously exploitable mechanic? It's easier to attack me for making the topic than accepting that a core mechanic is broken in your new favorite videogame, I understand. I can live with the devs streamlining the game, adding questmarkers, combining lockpicking and pickpocketing into thievery, combining bow and arrow into a ranged skill, it makes sense, but this simply doesn't. I don't even care about combat respeccing, you have to buy skillbooks anyway, but the civic skills become completely irrelevant if you can respec to your hearts content. I don't call Skyrim a bad RPG because it makes me look like some hardcore nostalgiafag grandpa, but because it's boring.
Last edited by Niklasgunner; 19/09/17 11:49 AM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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It's not broken, you just don't like the feature because it clashes with your preconceived notions of what an RPG should and should not contain.
A broken mechanic can be objectively proven to be true. A personal belief cannot.
~NuttiKrust
Last edited by NuttiKrust; 19/09/17 11:55 AM.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2017
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A broken mechanic can be objectively proven to be true; your claim, cannot. So it's not broken, you just don't like the feature. Does respeccing being free make your civic skillchoices irrelevant? Yes or no? Yes it does, this isn't even debateable. If I can teleport to the ship, respec and be back at the chest/door/trader/NPCs I want to lockpick/pickpocket/persuade in LESS THAN A MINUTE, then this one mechanic nullifies the other mechanics. This a change that completely defeats other core parts of the game, something that was never a problem in the first game, thus it's bad design, finished, finito, Q.E.D. Not an opinion, fact, try it yourself. I don't get how this is hard to understand?
Last edited by Niklasgunner; 19/09/17 11:57 AM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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Larian should make respec available in Act I. Best feature ever!!!
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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Does respeccing being free make your civic skillchoices irrelevant? Yes or no? In my opinion, nope. Yes it does, this isn't even debateable. Of course it is. If I can teleport to the ship, respec and be back at the chest/door/trader/NPCs I want to lockpick/pickpocket/persuade in LESS THAN A MINUTE, then this one mechanic nullifies the other mechanics, Do you do that? Because I don't, nor will I. If I can't open it, or if I can't persuade someone, I don't. I prefer to see where my decisions / lack of planning / character build takes me. Other's don't. And, again.. I ask (which you seem to be conveniently ignoring): How does a player doing that affect your game? Why do you feel the need to impose YOUR idea (because that's what it is) of an RPG game onto others? I don't get how this is hard to understand? Less difficult to understand, more disagreement with your summation that it nullifies the other skills, or breaks the game, or devalues the experience. Edit: My post you responded to was edited, likely whilst you were replying. ~ NuttiKrust
Last edited by NuttiKrust; 19/09/17 12:03 PM.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2017
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If I can teleport to the ship, respec and be back at the chest/door/trader/NPCs I want to lockpick/pickpocket/persuade in LESS THAN A MINUTE, then this one mechanic nullifies the other mechanics, Do you do that? Because I don't, nor will I. If I can't open it, or if I can't persuade someone, I don't. I shrug and see where my decisions takes me. It's irrelevant whether you do that or not, its an exploit and shouldn't be possible. I guess in the end you simply don't care and are just defending the game because you like it, so I'll stop responding here since it's going in circles. Developers should fix exploits, you are just looking the other way because you are a fanboy.
Last edited by Niklasgunner; 19/09/17 12:05 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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It's irrelevant whether you do that or not, its an exploit and shouldn't be possible.
Considering that a) teleportation is part of the game, b) running is part of the game, c) respeccing is part of the game and completely free.. ... I'd say your claim that it's an exploit is nothing more than an emotional response to a feature that you simply do not like.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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Developers should fix exploits, you are just looking the other way because you are a fanboy. And you've run out of arguments so you resort to ad hominem's. With that, I think we're done here.
Last edited by NuttiKrust; 19/09/17 12:14 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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And you need to realize this is Divinity 2, not Divinity 1. This kind of complaint is as entitled as FF7 fans complaining about the remake not being the exact same game just with better graphic. This is a terrible argument. The validity of a system has absolutely nothing to do with the title of the game.
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member
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member
Joined: Nov 2015
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I think the free respec is the carrot to keep folks going when things get tough or Larian makes balance changes to the game. It has value to me whether or not I actually use it. A functionally similar feature in another game I've played (Heroes of Steel) is the option to "boost" a party to the beginning of Act 2 (once the player has completed Act 1 at least once), where the boosted party is given access to a bunch of chests so that they can gear themselves to match their builds. If your party idea proves fun and effective you can then remake the group at level one or continue from there without replaying an act you may have played as many times as you want to.
If DOS 2 were less complex, less buggy, and companions weren't pre-leveled, I wouldn't see a point to this option, but given the nature of the game I think it's a great addition--and a feature that shouldn't be PC-only, which it likely would be if left to modders.
Last edited by Imryll; 19/09/17 12:40 PM.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2017
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It's irrelevant whether you do that or not, its an exploit and shouldn't be possible.
Considering that a) teleportation is part of the game, b) running is part of the game, c) respeccing is part of the game and completely free.. ... I'd say your claim that it's an exploit is nothing more than an emotional response to a feature that you simply do not like. Again, if I can just respec any of my civic skills at any time, they become irrelevant, no? You keep denying it, but don't explain your view. Why have civic skills if I can change my characters to have the perfect skills for every situation anyway? Getting past that door is just a minute of respeccing away. Just because you don't it doesn't make it go away. And, again.. I ask (which you seem to be conveniently ignoring): How does a player doing that affect your game?
Why do you feel the need to impose YOUR idea (because that's what it is) of an RPG game onto others?
Because a certain bit of permanency is important for an RPG, see Fallout, see Diablo, Wasteland, Pillars of Eternity, Planescape, KOTOR, Dragon Age. You aren't roleplaying if you can change your role whenever you see fit.
Last edited by Niklasgunner; 19/09/17 12:48 PM.
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Duchess of Gorgombert
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Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
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You aren't roleplaying if you can change your role whenever you see fit. I don't. If other people do, I don't care: like I said, what they do in their own game is none of my business.
J'aime le fromage.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2014
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The respec is behind a :effort: paywall.
You need to have finished act1 before having access to it, and so it's a great tool for people who realise they have gimped their build with bad choices but like what they actually have done with their roleplaying or just don't have time to reroll and begin the game again. Or, you know, know they would lose motivation to play if thye do.
Then if you want to abuse it you need to go back there, make new characters and spend time abusing it. It has a high 'effort' needed to abuse, and when it comes down to it, it's OK if people want to spend a lot of time to abuse a game. It's part of the game, and it's something most people just won't do because it's, for most, not a fun thing to do. For the people it's fun to....well, they can do it. It's good for them.
It's also very good for people who get stuck at a wall and realise they /need/ a respec or they have to stop playing.
Or, as people say, for experimentation.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2017
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I'm not attacking you, i just gave my 2 cents on this argument. You're saying all the time that respecs water down the rpg mechanic, but it's not objectively true. Yeah, you could abuse that system, and in the same way you could abuse many other things in the game (and that was true even in dos 1), so? what's the difference? You can choose explorer mode, abuse all the cheese build, abuse ai, download a cheat engine trainer, and made dos2 the easier game in the universe. All this things are acceptable, why? what is the real difference between download a #1 downloaded mod from nexus and use a in-game function? The difference, in my opinion, is that you cant accept that someone else could beat the original game (not modded) in a way that you consider easier.
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Duchess of Gorgombert
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Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
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The difference, in my opinion, is that you cant accept that someone else could beat the original game (not modded) in a way that you consider easier. This does seem to be an ongoing problem with RPGs in particular, I've noticed. I like SP games because I can do my own thing without feeling like someone else is trying to usher me along but sometimes it seems even SP isn't safe. One of the earliest examples I saw (okay, it's comparatively recent, especially for someone who's been gaming on and off since the 1970s, but I'm somehow a latecomer to RPGs) was in Oblivion where I was surprised and not impressed with the number of suggestions that new players get rid of quality-of-life things like the Skeleton Key or Azura's Star. I remember accosting a few and they defended their "advice" on the basis that it would somehow enhance the newbies' gaming experience although their general attitude rather belied that claim: it seemed more a case of the big kids not wanting the little kids in their playground. I've seen the same mentality a lot since then and still don't really understand it.
J'aime le fromage.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2017
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The difference, in my opinion, is that you cant accept that someone else could beat the original game (not modded) in a way that you consider easier. This does seem to be an ongoing problem with RPGs in particular, I've noticed. I like SP games because I can do my own thing without feeling like someone else is trying to usher me along but sometimes it seems even SP isn't safe. One of the earliest examples I saw (okay, it's comparatively recent, especially for someone who's been gaming on and off since the 1970s, but I'm somehow a latecomer to RPGs) was in Oblivion where I was surprised and not impressed with the number of suggestions that new players get rid of quality-of-life things like the Skeleton Key or Azura's Star. I remember accosting a few and they defended their "advice" on the basis that it would somehow enhance the newbies' gaming experience although their general attitude rather belied that claim: it seemed more a case of the big kids not wanting the little kids in their playground. I've seen the same mentality a lot since then and still don't really understand it. There is a difference between quality-of-life changes and casualizing mechanics into irrelevance. If you rather have choice be completely inconsequential, rather than choices mattering, in a genre that is DEFINED by choice and consequence, because it somehow empowers the player, more power to you, that is where the market is headed.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2017
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2017
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Oh lord, someone is afraid of being called a "casual" because the designers saw fit to allow free respecs. Even a double facepalm doesnt do this thread justice.
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Duchess of Gorgombert
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Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
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If you rather have choice be completely inconsequential, rather than choices mattering, in a genre that is DEFINED by choice and consequence, because it somehow empowers the player, more power to you, that is where the market is headed. It's as inconsequential or not as I decide. Much the same as savescumming, or even starting a new game because I wasn't happy with the outcome: even in the latter regard I'm generally loath to do so unless it's gone really bad. It's nothing to do with "where the market is headed" and everything to do with taking responsibility for one's decisions.
J'aime le fromage.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Dec 2016
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The problem I'm having with OP's issue is his contention that it nullifies social talent choice.
I, personally, disagree. I have maxed out persuade on my avatar, maxed out loremaster on my elf, maxed out barter on another character who does all my trading, and maxed out theivery on another who unlocks all doors and chests.
Would you say that kind of build nullifies choice? Because not once have I felt compelled to "go back and try again" or something.
Sure I could change my avatar to full lucky charm during dungeon crawls and my barterer to full sneak between barter sessions, but let me tell you... I am far too lazy to go through all that effort.
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