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Got a question for OP: do you save scum?

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Hi.

1. The existence of an option to change a decision does not automatically make the original decision irrelevant, as you claim. No: you yourself have to make *another* decision to actually use said option to change your original choice (and thereby to make it irrelevant, if you want to see it that way).

2. It follows that you can simply decide not to use that feature. In this case, your game is free of what you consider an exploit. There is nothing to discuss.

3. You can also decide to use the feature. In this case, you (irrationally) chose to use what you consider an exploit, and you have nobody to blame but yourself for it. There is nothing to discuss.

4. It's up to you if you want/need an in-character justification for exercising (or not) that option. The game cannot hold your hand for every bit of storytelling -- that is one of the core aspects of RPGs. They (intentionally or not) leave a lot of room for you to fill with your own inspirations and fantasies.

5. By the way, this applies to almost everything in a game, particulary a RPG. You feel that pyro spells are OP? Do not use them. You do not like how stealth works? Do not use it. You want an iron-man mode? Do not use the save/load feature. It is child's play to justify every non-meta decision from an IC perspective (e.g. your character has had to witness a parent die to fire and hence suffers from a severe trauma, rendering them unable/unwilling to cast fire spells).

6. However you decide, personally, you cannot legitimately impose your choice in this matter on everybody else. What would be the justification?

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he talk 24/7 about game need to balanced and can't give single argument why... its clear even for 5 years old child that respec ingame is exactly for balance... he just ignore every single argument and continue to thow this shi*t about balance...

Last edited by ztn; 19/09/17 06:20 PM.
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Maybe you could RP that ancient lore states using the mirror destroys whoever uses it and replaces them with an evil doppleganger, so avoiding the use of the mirror to respec is no longer hard to resist - It's your only choice if you want to survive.
rpg007

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Also the only way you could "respect to beat persuasion check" is if you save scum.

You know, get into a conversation, see a Persuasion check needed, fail it, so reload, visit ship, respec, go do the conversation again, then respec after the conversation.

I could see them putting in something like a timer for Respec. Ie "only available every X hours" to avoid this issue. But frankly, its not really an issue.

If you know you're going to engage in a lot of conversation with people ... you have four characters. SPECIALIZE them. Like others have said.

Have one character max out his persuasion (Lizard / Red Prince gets a bonus). Voila, no worries about "respec to beat persuasion check!" just make sure that you do conversations with your 'face' man.

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Originally Posted by KentDA
Also the only way you could "respect to beat persuasion check" is if you save scum.

You know, get into a conversation, see a Persuasion check needed, fail it, so reload, visit ship, respec, go do the conversation again, then respec after the conversation.

This is true for only a few NPCs most let each individual party member engage in dialouge. Just take a different character to talk to the same NPC with readjusted skills, unless your skillcheck you failing the check results in combat there is no savescumming required.

Originally Posted by Kishidle
Got a question for OP: do you save scum?

Only for encounters so I don't have to redo multiple fights, I don't reload to revert decisions I made.

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Jesus christ why isnt this thread sunk to second page yet?

a few elitist snobs want to ruin quality of life measures on a perfectly valid balance, and yet people still taking the bait?

SERIOUSLY EVEN PILLARS AND TYRANNY HAS FREE RESPECT, GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE.

If you really like a challenge theres tactician honorable for you, request a mod that makes every NPC hostile or something.

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If you don't like the respec system, show some self-restraint and don't use it.

Or if you want, donate all of your gold to a random NPC every time you respec for the cost.

Stop trying to ruin things for others because you have no willpower.

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Originally Posted by Cyka

a few elitist snobs want to ruin quality of life measures on a perfectly valid balance, and yet people still taking the bait?


How is my suggestion to not have respec be completely inconsequential elitist?

Originally Posted by Cyka

SERIOUSLY EVEN PILLARS AND TYRANNY HAS FREE RESPECT, GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE.


You are wrong though.
Pillars of Eternity requires you to pay for respec at a tavern, while Tyranny doesn't allow it at all.





Originally Posted by kathars1s
If you don't like the respec system, show some self-restraint and don't use it.

Stop trying to ruin things for others because you have no willpower.


Oh I don't use it, but I just hate casual game design.

We have different outlooks on how games should be designed I guess. I get it, you think it's not a problem because you don't have to use it.
Let's hyperbole this a bit.
If the game gave you a key that opened any door, a spell that instakilled any enemy once you reach Act 2, would you still just say "Don't use it"?
Those would be completely overpowered. Everything needs to have a down and upside, respec just being free whenever you want has no downsides.
Why does every other RPG, whether singleplayer or MMO, either not allow respecs or makes you pay for it in some way? It's simply good design.

The developer sets the boundaries for what is possible inside the game, a good game doesn't let you abuse such elements to this extend. It's also not up to me to ignore such lazy design, but up to Larian to fix.



Last edited by Niklasgunner; 19/09/17 10:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by Niklasgunner
Originally Posted by Cyka

a few elitist snobs want to ruin quality of life measures on a perfectly valid balance, and yet people still taking the bait?


How is my suggestion to not have respec be completely inconsequential elitist?

Originally Posted by Cyka

SERIOUSLY EVEN PILLARS AND TYRANNY HAS FREE RESPECT, GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE.


You are wrong though.
Pillars of Eternity requires you to pay for respec at a tavern, while Tyranny doesn't allow it at all.




You are wrong, Tyranny with DLC ALLOWS free respec any time via spires.

Did you even look at your thread title? I can never understood someone so self absorbed.

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Originally Posted by Cyka

You are wrong, Tyranny with DLC ALLOWS free respec any time via spires.


Alright, I only played vanilla

Originally Posted by Cyka

Did you even look at your thread title? I can never understood someone so self absorbed.


How does the thread title make me self absorbed?

Free respec makes civic skills irrelevant

Free respec is casualized compared to the first game and others in the genre

A mechanic that works against other mechanics is bad design.
There is no need to specialize your parties civic skills when you can just go respec everyone to a great thief, go to a trader and rob him 4 times instead of just once.
How is that not self defeating?

Can you stop with the personal attacks?

Last edited by Niklasgunner; 19/09/17 10:48 PM.
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Originally Posted by Niklasgunner
How does the thread title make me self absorbed?


It's the word "casual" which proves it.

Please just shut up and go away. No one is going to agree with your whining.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Niklasgunner
How does the thread title make me self absorbed?


It's the word "casual" which proves it.

Please just shut up and go away. No one is going to agree with your whining.


How is it not casual, compared to the first game for example?

Can you not discuss this without attacking me personally lmao, put in some effort
I guess I'm talking against a wall of fanboys, sorry for critizing your pefect video game.

Sorry for interrupting your release hype circlejerk, I'll be off to bed, see you tommorrow think
Larian has crafted a perfect, flawless masterpiece.

Last edited by Niklasgunner; 19/09/17 10:54 PM.
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Yes, exactly, you nailed it perfectly!

The entire forum is just a bunch of Larian-worshippers who have absolutely zero complaints at all, and band together to tar and feather anyone who dares to say otherwise. You've found us out, well done.

It has nothing at all to do with your ridiculous position unsupported by any arguments not based on your own personal opinion.

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Not to mention almost no one has agreed with him at all, yet he still somehow thinks hes right.

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Honesly, OP, the fact that you use terms like "casual" and "casualized" tells me enough. Dude, you're coming off as kind of pathetic. Just stop.

Fact is, free respec is NOT a bad thing. Not everyone has hours to devote to grinding up gold for a respec if they've got a build that doesn't work. People have lives and jobs - maybe you'll understand that one day :)

And before you try your strawman garbage on me, I'm not a Larian fanboy. DOS2 has plenty of issues, and segments/elements that are ACTUALLY bad design. This isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by Niklasgunner
Oh I don't use it, but I just hate casual game design.

I think that rather sums up the problem with this topic in one neat sentence.


J'aime le fromage.
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Originally Posted by Ferrous
Not to mention almost no one has agreed with him at all, yet he still somehow thinks hes right.


Being right does not come from majority decisions or opinions. Just because a mob thinks the earth is flat does not make it so. Socrates was tried because he "failed to acknowledge the gods that the city acknowledges". We are in the 21st century, let us try to avoid regressing to stone age mentality. We are no longer waging wars with sticks and stones, we now have nuclear weapons that could destroy the world a hundred times over.

Regarding the issue OP mentioned, it seems he is not complaining so much about respec in the sense of rebuilding your character's combat roles, but rather abusing the free respec to change outcomes to your favor or amassing gold via pickpocket rotation.

If that is the issue, then limiting pickpocketing to a single instance, regardless of character, and restricting persuation checks to a single instance (no second chances) would solve the issue OP is complaining about. Unless there is something else that bothers him about respec'ing

Last edited by vometia; 20/09/17 05:08 AM. Reason: formatting
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Originally Posted by overlordgod
Originally Posted by Ferrous
Not to mention almost no one has agreed with him at all, yet he still somehow thinks hes right.


Being right does not come from majority decisions or opinions. Just because a mob thinks the earth is flat does not make it so. Socrates was tried because he "failed to acknowledge the gods that the city acknowledges". We are in the 21st century, let us try to avoid regressing to stone age mentality. We are no longer waging wars with sticks and stones, we now have nuclear weapons that could destroy the world a hundred times over.

Regarding the issue OP mentioned, it seems he is not complaining so much about respec in the sense of rebuilding your character's combat roles, but rather abusing the free respec to change outcomes to your favor or amassing gold via pickpocket rotation.

If that is the issue, then limiting pickpocketing to a single instance, regardless of character, and restricting persuation checks to a single instance (no second chances) would solve the issue OP is complaining about. Unless there is something else that bothers him about respec'ing


This isnt a mob, this is blantly stupidity suggesting nerfing respect out of sheer selfishness and ignorance in an already hard game that punishes new comers.

There is no logic in this from the mere title alone. And your suggestion is even worse, but what more can i expect from someone named "overlordgod"

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Yes, exactly, you nailed it perfectly!

The entire forum is just a bunch of Larian-worshippers who have absolutely zero complaints at all, and band together to tar and feather anyone who dares to say otherwise. You've found us out, well done.

It has nothing at all to do with your ridiculous position unsupported by any arguments not based on your own personal opinion.


This forum needs an "upvote" system. Q_Q

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