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Although combat is better balanced, it is very boring compared to DOS1. All fights are very samey. You avoid using any skills that have effects/CC at the beginning while focusing on skills that deal damage only. After armor is depleted it then becomes an effect/CC fest and often means victory to whichever side still has armor.

There should be a chance to land an effect through Armor. It can be very straightforward like:
100% Armor = 100% Resist Chance
78% Armor = 78% Resist Chance
22% Armor = 22% Resist Chance
and so on...

Also, constitution is very unattractive as it is now. Along with increasing HP, it should give a flat chance to resist effects as well.

Option A: Stacks with Armor
Base 10 CON doesn't give any +resist and let's say every 1 CON after = +2% Resist. For example:
80% Armor + 11 CON = 82% Resist Chance
22% Armor + 20 CON = 42% Resist Chance

Option B: Doesn't Stack with Armor
Base 10 CON doesn't give any +resist and let's say every 1 CON after = +5% Resist. After Armor is depleted the CON resist chance will start working. For example:
12% Armor + 12 CON = 12% Resist Chance
0% Armor + 12 CON = 10% Resist Chance

While option A makes more sense realistically, I think option B is more interesting because it would feel like a Last Stand mechanic.

What do you think? Anyone else have any other ideas on how to change Armor?

Last edited by Killertofu; 21/09/17 06:48 AM.
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there are many ideas, but armor got invented, so there is no more RNG regarding CC, so it is not really likely, that they will change it. There are enough, who love the non-RNG version, and enough who quite hate it.

They quite as well could make, that Armor blocks only hard CC and lets soft CC pass through like oil, so there would be at least a little bit of effect.

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Thankfully due to the nerf on disables, your consitution matters abit more than before in survival. Although i dont understand why physical skills still get hard disables without setup if you dont have armor. Stuff like chicken form, knock down etc are way better than any of the magic schools offer.

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physical damage lacks surfaces and proper AOE effects, thats probably why smile Most of their abilites are shor ranged or line/cone spells, thats why i think they are more powerful (as it is harder to CC all enemies with one spell, which was quite easy with water+stun or freeze.

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Originally Posted by TsunAmik
physical damage lacks surfaces and proper AOE effects, thats probably why smile Most of their abilites are shor ranged or line/cone spells, thats why i think they are more powerful (as it is harder to CC all enemies with one spell, which was quite easy with water+stun or freeze.


what? physical damage doenst friendly fire, and the cone for battlestomp is about as reasonably big as you can get, otherwise it'd be ridiculous. Also physical disables like chicken has less targets but much more reliable on a boss.

Water if you missfire you screw yourself so hard.

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And yet, when magical damage is down, I am able to stun whole map with rain+electrical strike, no LoS required. Thats why there are armors and two stages of CC smile Question asked and answered.

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Originally Posted by TsunAmik
And yet, when magical damage is down, I am able to stun whole map with rain+electrical strike, no LoS required. Thats why there are armors and two stages of CC smile Question asked and answered.


good for you i guess, meanwhile i just battle stomp the next enemies after my turn and it does the same thing.

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Good for you? What are you trying to prove though? I just answered your question " i dont understand why physical skills still get hard disables without setup if you dont have armor", with clear explanation that it would be too OP for magical cc to do the same most likely, while physical CC is much more single target /small aoe oriented so it doesnt matter that much. I dont care about your bragging lol.

You have to realize, that one character can do about 2 or 3 knockdowns and then goes for 4-5 turns CD.

While there are about 4 shocking spells in game and 3 or 4 freezing spells, all available on single character easily, each of them capable of CC half of the map.

Its just fair that they dont do that and are two staged smile

Last edited by TsunAmik; 21/09/17 12:13 PM.
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A good way to fix this new save throw system is, every time u hit the enemy's armour, there's a chance for they to fail the save throw check so the CC kick in, chance is decided by how much damage u make against their current armour amount. So for example if the enemy has 100 magic armour and u casted a fireball which cause 50 fire damage, there should be 50% he failed the save check and got burning status. If you did 90 fire damage, the chance will be increased to 90%. And no matter how low the damage is, there should be a 5% to success, just like other classic d&d games.

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
there are many ideas, but armor got invented, so there is no more RNG regarding CC, so it is not really likely, that they will change it. There are enough, who love the non-RNG version, and enough who quite hate it.

They quite as well could make, that Armor blocks only hard CC and lets soft CC pass through like oil, so there would be at least a little bit of effect.


Actually soft CC like slow and slippery from ice ignores armour.

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Originally Posted by Killertofu
Although combat is better balanced, it is very boring compared to DOS1. All fights are very samey. You avoid using any skills that have effects/CC at the beginning while focusing on skills that deal damage only. After armor is depleted it then becomes an effect/CC fest and often means victory to whichever side still has armor.

There should be a chance to land an effect through Armor. It can be very straightforward like:
100% Armor = 100% Resist Chance
78% Armor = 78% Resist Chance
22% Armor = 22% Resist Chance
and so on...

Also, constitution is very unattractive as it is now. Along with increasing HP, it should give a flat chance to resist effects as well.

Option A: Stacks with Armor
Base 10 CON doesn't give any +resist and let's say every 1 CON after = +2% Resist. For example:
80% Armor + 11 CON = 82% Resist Chance
22% Armor + 20 CON = 42% Resist Chance

Option B: Doesn't Stack with Armor
Base 10 CON doesn't give any +resist and let's say every 1 CON after = +5% Resist. After Armor is depleted the CON resist chance will start working. For example:
12% Armor + 12 CON = 12% Resist Chance
0% Armor + 12 CON = 10% Resist Chance

While option A makes more sense realistically, I think option B is more interesting because it would feel like a Last Stand mechanic.

What do you think? Anyone else have any other ideas on how to change Armor?


I like the idea that Con should give more resistance as in option A.

It would work very well mixed with my idea,
Constitution could increase resistance as you suggest AND work as resistance to critical hits - on which hard CC effects need to be dependent on.

Ill just quote myself:

Originally Posted by Hiver

Larian will pick up only those ideas that fit with their ideas or dont drastically change them. The only worthwhile result of these kinds of discussions is whether some modders pick up a good idea or not.

The Baardwark Bard mod should be the best option to hope for since it also includes changes to CC effects. And may also change how armors function.

The armor system and CC effects are very codependant and both need changing, not just one, to really have a better and more tactical gameplay.

The way to do this is to make a lot of softer CC effects that do not completely stun or freeze enemies but cause softer debuffs and similar negative effects. And then also keep hard lock CC effects - as critical hit success only. This would make them rare and hard to achieve, but still available because they are fun and tactically useful abilities - if they are rare and hard to achieve.

Some further balancing of how crits happen and what requirements they should have in order not to be too easy to achieve would then be relatively easier to add.

This could also improve value of Wits.

Constitution could then give resistance to critical strikes - and therefore higher chance to avoid hard lock CC effects, which would make it more valuable.

Thus the attributes would be balanced and improved.


Armors of course, should work in some form of percentage based defense/damage reduction as i (and several others) already suggested.
It could be a simple point for point system because that is elegant and easy to implement - and extremely easy to understand even by the most casual of players.

While the insane amounts of armor and Hp numbers need to be toned down. Dealing in thousands of points is pointless.- ba dum-tshh.
Its literally pointless bloat that serves no purpose.
All numbers should be lowered into hundreds at most across the board. Armor, vitality/HP and damage values.

Thats not a big demand or a big issue but it would make the whole system more elegant, lean and mean.



Additionally here is a mod made by Xaelyn that will make gameplay better in the meantime.


Originally Posted by Xaelyn
I made a mod that makes most of the lesser debuffs apply through armour. All hard CC still needs armour to be destroyed.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139858748


Also available on the Nexus.

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Sad to hear this made it past beta... I remember how boring 100% CC-resisting armor was and 100% success without armor. Made each fight indeed similar to raid armor, cc, repeat.

Of course then the PvP crowd flamed me to death saying it was the best thing ever and calling me names and everything smirk.

This suggestion definitely sounds good.

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I actually like the armor system way more than the RNG-based system of the first game. Those chances on almost every spell just made fights super random, while also kinda incentivised savescuming (it felt like that for me atleast). The argument about 'stripping armor to apply CC' making game feel repetitive is kind of ridic actually, because if you don't need to destroy that armor, all you will actually do is conrtol every enemy possible from the start of a fight, and that makes every fight exactly the same (right now enemies have at least different ml\pl armor values, so you need to choose your target wisely)
And for real guys, if you don't like something that doesn't mean that it's bad, or in need of a change(s) for that matter. Ofc you will see less of a praise for this system, because those ones who like it will likely just enjoy the game and don't bother writing anything on forums.
But if the lack of RNG is a problem for you for some reason there are mods to "fix" that.


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