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Testing Offline OP
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Summoning states that every point invested grants +5% summon stats.
In truth it grants 10% per point.
EVERY skilltree gets 5%.
When many of those points are stacked the difference becomes HUGE (like the incarnate or any summon gets 200% multiplier).
This makes summoner overshadow most builds in parties, when a player can summon a creature more damaging than ANY party member (even a full bs rogue).

Ergo, Soul Bond NEEDS to be brought in line.
Summons already have immense utility by distracting enemies, we dont need them to also take over the role of the DPS party member.

(I would mention how an incarnate soloed most bosses on tactician with ease, while the summoner run constantly away, but it would be redundant)

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How did you managed to test the actual scaling of Summoner ability stat?

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Oh very simple, the bonus from summoning, the REAL bonus is visible when you hover over the "Soul Bond" buff that the summon gets when you raise it.

For example at 10 summoning it grants +100% dmg,life etc, as it says on the buff (or if you examine the summon with a character)

However normally it should have +50% instead of +100% at 10 summoning. This difference REALLY gets crazy as you put more and more points there.

Self cast simply cant keep up.

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The reason why Summons get 10% instead of 5 is simple...

They get NO outside sources of power. There is no incarnate weapon, there are no incarnate attributes, there is no incarnate weapon.

The only thing Incarnates get is the incarnate skill.

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@Neonivek
That is so VERY incorrect.
1. Incarnates DO have attributes. This is way peace of mind+encourage is an IMMENSE damage boost for them. With those two buffs they reach about 35-40 str/fin/int at mid-late game.
2. Their BASE damage scales very well, but no more than other skills, problem is not here.
3. They have infusions, for +25% and +25% damage multipliers. Consider that no normal builds get those.
4. They get an ENORMOUS multiplier out of the blue. (easily 200% in the end)

I get the impression you havent had a summoner team-mate who kept pushing your fire wizard further and further into redundancy with the sheer amount of damage it can dish out with the VERY same skills you get. (eg My fireball does at 50 int and 18 pyro about half of the incarnates fully buffed fireball)

I invite you to demonstrate how self cast can compete with that, because, frankly, that huge multiplier looks VERY out of place.


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Incarnates don't use YOUR attributes.

But this isn't how Soul Bond interacts with other buffs. This is about how "10% is too much!"

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@Neonivek
I assert that you have never played a summoner or with one, or have any idea what you are talking about.

1. Please, I never, ever said they use your attributes. Using the EXAMINE option on an incarnate shows THEIR attributes which scale with levels and also can be buffed with encourage etc. THOSE attributes are a VERY big multiplier.

2. The crux of the argument is "Incarnates overshadow self-cast builds because 10% is too much". Proof is that incarnates have access to almost EVERY multiplier that self cast builds have (they have their own pyro attribute, int attribute etc) and on TOP of that have an OBSCENELY high multiplier.

If you think any of the above doesnt correspond to reality all you have to do is get an incarnate, buff it, right-click, press "EXAMINE", and hover over the "DAMAGE" field. Then all the multipliers that take a normal amount of base damage to an obscene quantity become obvious. (hint: try comparing that to the ONLY two multipliers a caster gets, +increased from int and +increased from pyro.)

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I have two summoners in my party, I think Tactician is ridiculously easy, it's simply not challenging and bores me now so much that I stopped playing summoner.

I'm not good at the game, summons are just even more OP than the first game, OP is right.

Last edited by Niklasgunner; 21/09/17 07:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by Testing
@Neonivek
1. Please, I never, ever said they use your attributes.


Lets just cut this argument off right here. Since I didn't say you said that either.

I am saying the reason why summoning gets a 10% when Pyromancy gets a 5% is because Pyromancy uses intelligence (5%) and Pyromancy (5%).

That was it.

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Originally Posted by Neonivek
Originally Posted by Testing
@Neonivek
1. Please, I never, ever said they use your attributes.


Lets just cut this argument off right here. Since I didn't say you said that either.

I am saying the reason why summoning gets a 10% when Pyromancy gets a 5% is because Pyromancy uses intelligence (5%) and Pyromancy (5%).

That was it.


except summons also have their own stats (which are usually higher than your own)... my incarnate outdamages the rogue in our team in multiplayer.

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Regardless of whether it should add 5% or 10%, the tooltip says 5% and it's adding 10%, so it's not acceptable the way it is now.

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Are you certain it is actually adding 10% and it's not the buff tooltip that is lying?

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Yes, of course. One can see it more clearly by examining a summoned incarnate, in particular its damage stat. The game uses 10% to calculate the final attack damage from the base damage, instead of 5%.


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