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A lvl 13 Shield... 100 Physical Armor and 100 Magic Armor

A lvl 15 Shield... 300 Physical Armor and Magic Armor.

Armor increased by 200%

A lvl 13 Xbow ... 50 base damage

A lvl 15 Xbow... 100 base damage.

Damage increased by 100%

The game was not tested very well for mid-end game. Through out Fort Joy gear scaled correctly, with gear becoming slightly better every level, but then in Driftwood, the level difference in gear becomes insane. Same goes for encounters for that matter.

Last edited by Nokturnel; 23/09/17 03:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by Akka

Why not simply makes stat progression linear instead of logarithmic ? Simpler and actually fix the problem at the source instead of tweaking twenty different things to partially hide the effects.


Because fixing the stat formula will affect the entire game.

Right now, this issue is only really prevalent in Act 2.

Act 1 is fine, just lack gear and even then, legendaries aren't in the range yet and epic are limited.

Act 3 is fine and most of the gears.

Act 2 is "Have good gear = lolstomp because they didn't balanced enemies to be as strong as the early legendaries"

Another way to fix this is to just change what level legndaries and divine appears. Lock Legendaries to level 13+ (for roaming boss fights in act 2 and Nameless Isle. You barely find legendaries and divines on Nameless isle merchants!) and Divines to 18+ (Act 3 only)

Last edited by Ellezard; 23/09/17 03:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ellezard
Originally Posted by Akka

Why not simply makes stat progression linear instead of logarithmic ? Simpler and actually fix the problem at the source instead of tweaking twenty different things to partially hide the effects.


Because fixing the stat formula will affect the entire game.


Yes. So Larian should fix the entire game. Doubling damage in two levels is frankly just silly.

Larian did not make a perfect game which is absolutely flawless. They are mortals and they can make mistakes and overlook things. Mistakes should be corrected.

Now I agree that they probably can't change things on existing saves, but eventually, they should rebalance the game for later users starting a new game.

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Fixing the whole game formula because Act 2 has gear inflation issues is like burning down your own room because it has ants.

Last edited by Ellezard; 23/09/17 03:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by Ellezard
Because fixing the stat formula will affect the entire game.

Right now, this issue is only really prevalent in Act 2.


Act 1 is fine, just lack gear and even then, legendaries aren't in the range yet and epic are limited.

Act 3 is fine and most of the gears.

Act 2 is "Have good gear = lolstomp because they didn't balanced enemies to be as strong as the early legendaries"

And fixing the entire game is bad because the problem is less glaring in some part ? What kind of fucked up logic is that ?

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Gear in the end-game(late Act 2 and Act 3) is also busted but you dont see it that much because of not gaining so many levels as in early Act 2. I do believe that Fort Joy is the most balanced part of the game, rest need a good from the developers.

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Originally Posted by Kubiben
Gear in the end-game(late Act 2 and Act 3) is also busted but you dont see it that much because of not gaining so many levels as in early Act 2. I do believe that Fort Joy is the most balanced part of the game, rest need a good from the developers.

Even Fort Joy is rather fucked up. It just is more lenient, but you'll see the guides about the strict order you need to follow to get enough experience to have the levels required so as not to get slaughtered in fights, and how you need to cheese the game for money and gear.

The entire game is twisted by this idiotic power growth.

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Originally Posted by Akka
game is bad because the problem is less glaring in some part ? What kind of fucked up logic is that ?


Act 1 has you using the same gears as EA. Nothing wrong with any of that. People were fine playing through it over and over in EA but they're not now?

Act 3 has limitation placed on what you can get. I finished the game with an Epic xbow, not a legendary or a divine one, because the ranger shop npc refused to put the legendary and divine weapon in her shop anymore.

Plus, the strongest weapon, Anathema (2h), is from an NPC quest and is clearly a last fight weapon since it has a durability of 1.

Majority of Act 3 unique weapon are also strong enough to beat the game and you get them from just exploring the map and doing quests aka just playing the game. Some of them even reward you for being curious like teleporting a giant corpse out of the sea to check if it has any loot and tada, legendaries. I barely get to spend money in Act 3.

Act 2 is the only one with massive scaling issues and that's where all the effort to fix them should be directed. It's not hard to modify item stat best on the data people that stomp or struggle through Act 2 can provide. All it take is a few number adjustment, not a complete revamp.

Last edited by Ellezard; 23/09/17 05:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by Akka
Originally Posted by Baardvark
I agree the stats are very bloated. Fortunately it looks like we can modify this very easily, so I'll definitely release a mod that tones down the scaling a whole lot.

I hope we can fix it through mod, but I wonder how hard it will be. If the foes' stats are mindlessly calculated from a level-based spreadsheet, it'll be easy (it'll also be very underwhelming to realize that no customisation of enemies happened and they are just the usual "a level slapped onto a model" instead of full-fleshed creatures).
If not, it would mean altering by hand all the stat of all the mob and items in the game, which would be daunting.

And honestly, I'm starting to lose the desire to play with this idiotic inflation (and the slaughtered fighting system, which I find just a vastly inferior one to DOS1, which sadly only double down on the stat inflation problem), so I'm wondering if I shouldn't just wait for such a mod. How long do you think it would take you to do it ? :p


And it's out smile Dramatically toned down scaling, and certain levels no longer have huge spikes in health. Uploading to Nexus now if you don't have Steam version:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1142608415

There's simply a global multiplier for vitality scaling. Different enemies have different constitution values, but everyone is subject to the same multipliers. From the vitality numbers, armor and damage values are calculated automatically, so everything should maintain the same relative balance as vanilla, unless there's some independent numbers I've missed somewhere, but pretty sure there aren't.

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I can get behind Akka's suggestion for Linear equipment progression (especially with the current stat system) as a broad-stroke change, but this system really is the kind of thing that requires a lot of fine tuning and an overhaul of enemy statistics as well. I also find Ellelizard has a point about the scaling being at its worst in Act 2 (but I think this is mostly due to the very tight scope of levels and items in Act 3; the problem is at its most severe there for me but given the least light), though I think he's coming at the issue from the wrong direction but he's got the right outcome at heart.

I think we can all agree that, in some way or another, all of the following needs to happen in regards to equipment scaling:

- The economy needs to be touched upon in regards to gear pricing, availability and crafting.
-Equipment scaling needs to be toned down significantly or the formula for doing such should be significantly altered.
-Equipment scaling needs to account more closely for level gaps and Unique items.
-Equipment scaling should be less hostile towards crafting.


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Originally Posted by Baardvark
Originally Posted by Akka
Originally Posted by Baardvark
I agree the stats are very bloated. Fortunately it looks like we can modify this very easily, so I'll definitely release a mod that tones down the scaling a whole lot.

I hope we can fix it through mod, but I wonder how hard it will be. If the foes' stats are mindlessly calculated from a level-based spreadsheet, it'll be easy (it'll also be very underwhelming to realize that no customisation of enemies happened and they are just the usual "a level slapped onto a model" instead of full-fleshed creatures).
If not, it would mean altering by hand all the stat of all the mob and items in the game, which would be daunting.

And honestly, I'm starting to lose the desire to play with this idiotic inflation (and the slaughtered fighting system, which I find just a vastly inferior one to DOS1, which sadly only double down on the stat inflation problem), so I'm wondering if I shouldn't just wait for such a mod. How long do you think it would take you to do it ? :p


And it's out smile Dramatically toned down scaling, and certain levels no longer have huge spikes in health. Uploading to Nexus now if you don't have Steam version:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1142608415

There's simply a global multiplier for vitality scaling. Different enemies have different constitution values, but everyone is subject to the same multipliers. From the vitality numbers, armor and damage values are calculated automatically, so everything should maintain the same relative balance as vanilla, unless there's some independent numbers I've missed somewhere, but pretty sure there aren't.


You are a hero. Screw steam achievements, now I can resume playing this game and actually having fun with it. Stopped shortly after finishing act 1 because I spent more time visiting merchants than I did with any kind of meaningful gameplay. I just don't get why they thought it was a good idea to begin with.

Slightly unrelated but is it possible to change a way gear works in this game, getting rid of item levels? Right before I was so tired of itemization and awful diablo-style loot I had this idea: what if gear gave scaling bonuses instead of flat stats. For example, there wouldn't be strength based armor levels 1-20. There would be just one armor that gives 30% of vitality as physical armor and 10% as magical armor (chose %values mosly randomly). Same with weapons, damage would just automatically scale with level. I don't know if it's possible to do but that'd fix most of the things I personally hate about itemization. Would even make randomized loot much less awful.

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Originally Posted by Baardvark
And it's out smile Dramatically toned down scaling, and certain levels no longer have huge spikes in health. Uploading to Nexus now if you don't have Steam version:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1142608415

There's simply a global multiplier for vitality scaling. Different enemies have different constitution values, but everyone is subject to the same multipliers. From the vitality numbers, armor and damage values are calculated automatically, so everything should maintain the same relative balance as vanilla, unless there's some independent numbers I've missed somewhere, but pretty sure there aren't.

That's great !

But could you not put it behind Steamwall ? :p
Some of us bought the game on GOG and don't have Steam !

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You're a hero, Baardvark! I'll certainly use this mod in my second playthrough.

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Glad ya'll like it smile

Nexus version here: https://www.nexusmods.com/divinityoriginalsin2/mods/58/?

Originally Posted by Alanta


You are a hero. Screw steam achievements, now I can resume playing this game and actually having fun with it. Stopped shortly after finishing act 1 because I spent more time visiting merchants than I did with any kind of meaningful gameplay. I just don't get why they thought it was a good idea to begin with.

Slightly unrelated but is it possible to change a way gear works in this game, getting rid of item levels? Right before I was so tired of itemization and awful diablo-style loot I had this idea: what if gear gave scaling bonuses instead of flat stats. For example, there wouldn't be strength based armor levels 1-20. There would be just one armor that gives 30% of vitality as physical armor and 10% as magical armor (chose %values mosly randomly). Same with weapons, damage would just automatically scale with level. I don't know if it's possible to do but that'd fix most of the things I personally hate about itemization. Would even make randomized loot much less awful.


Well, you could completely eliminate vitality scaling and then loot from level 1 would be roughly comparable to loot from level 20, but that's a pretty extreme change. I may release a version like that though, since I've gotten a couple requests. Otherwise I don't think armor and weapons can automatically scale armor and damage values, at least without some serious scripting.

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Really noob question but...how does the vitality scalling works exactly? biggrin

Last edited by Dopelgingembre; 23/09/17 05:54 PM.

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Here are the default numbers:

key "VitalityStartingAmount","18"
key "VitalityExponentialGrowth","1.28"
key "VitalityLinearGrowth","12.5"
key "FirstVitalityLeapLevel","9"
key "FirstVitalityLeapGrowth","1.25"
key "SecondVitalityLeapLevel","13"
key "SecondVitalityLeapGrowth","1.5"
key "ThirdVitalityLeapLevel","16"
key "ThirdVitalityLeapGrowth","1.25"
key "FourthVitalityLeapLevel","18"
key "FourthVitalityLeapGrowth","1.5"

As you can see, the exponential growth of 28% is a lot by itself. But then the leap growths at levels 9, 13, 16, and 18, are just extra ridiculous ( think they mean that at level 18, say, vitality is suddenly 50% greater. That's just absurd.)

I basically eliminated the leap growth, and brought down the exponential scaling to 1.10.

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Originally Posted by Baardvark
Here are the default numbers:

key "VitalityStartingAmount","18"
key "VitalityExponentialGrowth","1.28"
key "VitalityLinearGrowth","12.5"
key "FirstVitalityLeapLevel","9"
key "FirstVitalityLeapGrowth","1.25"
key "SecondVitalityLeapLevel","13"
key "SecondVitalityLeapGrowth","1.5"
key "ThirdVitalityLeapLevel","16"
key "ThirdVitalityLeapGrowth","1.25"
key "FourthVitalityLeapLevel","18"
key "FourthVitalityLeapGrowth","1.5"

As you can see, the exponential growth of 28% is a lot by itself. But then the leap growths at levels 9, 13, 16, and 18, are just extra ridiculous ( think they mean that at level 18, say, vitality is suddenly 50% greater. That's just absurd.)

I basically eliminated the leap growth, and brought down the exponential scaling to 1.10.


I just don't get it. There must be some reason why they thought such a scaling is good but I can't think of any tbh. I hope it gets significantly toned down by patches eventually.

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Oh okay, I understand now. Thanks Baardvark!


@Alanta ; I don't know. But, hey, at least now we can find out just by playing a full campaign with Baardvark's mod! grin


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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
There is no real char progression left, attributes are pretty meaningless and AP are fixed, so they need big numbers, so people can feel 'mightier'.

'Tons of damage'
Same stupid method uses all asian MMORPG. Hits for milions HP, discovering a meaninglesss corner of a map in a sidequiest gives gazilion XP. and so on. Just imagine an average kiddo smashing gamepad. That is the target group.

This asian system simply overloads human mind, so people cant find so quickly that game rules, skill, items are badly designed. I see same pattern here as a purpose.

In the first game I had about 2500HP on my tough guy. In final fight, untouchable. I asked several times here on forum, made specific hreads to cut HP, Items, skills stats to brain countable numbers. For reasons. Average people can quickly count to 20. Some people with talents comfortably do 100. Anything above is hard to get. That is true even for university educated people, that is our nature.

I believe Larians are not stupid or make such horrible mistakes. Those bloated stats are the purpose.

Start with high HP then just keep constant flow of MOAR. If you cant find the stats, skills and talents are shit, then you are satisfied right?

This stupid system together with gutted combat system, makes the game friendly to casual players, see the massive sales. However, ... RPG fans, looks at Wartile and Pillars of Ethernity 2.

Amen

Last edited by gGeo; 23/09/17 06:55 PM.
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That's brilliant Baardvark, thank you.

Gonna have a look and maybe tweak a bit myself, I'm still sore about stealth sucking so much xD

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