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With my Greed loot mod you can find chest pieces that alter your AP recovery/maximum/start in various ways. And not to get too promoty, but my no/reduces vitality scaling mods also make gear more interesting in a way by reducing the need to replace everything every level.

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Originally Posted by devdev463
Personally I like the idea of ap being standard and not being changed by an allocation of stats like in the first one, but ellezards suggestion of messing with ap more in gear or possibly spells other than just haste could give it some more flare.

I agree the gear felt rather lackluster as everything was only stats with the occasional gear piece with a skill but given how randomized the gear was if you found a gear piece with a skill you actually wanted then you were rather lucky. gear could have been made much more interesting if you could level up your gear, allowing you to pick interesting gear choices and keep with them, which would open them up to actually add interesting variations without it being defeated by that fact that you change gear pieces every other level. If you want to keep the feeling of progression in there, just make upgrading the stats on gear take crafting items that you get in the new areas you explore as you progress. Maybe you only find bronze to upgrade your weapons with on fort joy, then you find better metals later, something like that.

It might make more sense to give some more flare to the skill tree before something like the gear system though. I would very much like to see tiers for rank 5 and 10 milestones for every school that do something interesting for example.


I really enjoyed the 4 or 5 weapons you got outside of Cyseal that leveled up with you in a sense. The "kits". You find pieces throughout the game, and you can insert the piece into the equipment and it increased the dmg and gave more stats.

It was...decently implemented, usually the other gear you found was better when you finally got the upgrade, so they didn't scale it properly, but with a few tweaks, they could have put stuff like that in the game. (mods maybe?!)

Originally Posted by Baardvark
With my Greed loot mod you can find chest pieces that alter your AP recovery/maximum/start in various ways. And not to get too promoty, but my no/reduces vitality scaling mods also make gear more interesting in a way by reducing the need to replace everything every level.


Can that mod be found in the steam workshop like your bard mod?! And work with existing saves? Would be pretty cool.

Also a question, do mods work in Co-op? Like do both players need the mod, the host or only some mods work or mods are just singleplayer stuff?

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Yes, it's called Greed - Increased Loot Variety. It works with existing saves, though I've heard some people say it increases load times a lot the first time loading after implementing the mod. If you are the host in multiplayer, people joining should automatically download the mod.

HUcast #624067 30/09/17 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by HUcast
In Divinity OS 1 your ap start totals changed as you went further because your stats determined it. This lead to you discovering all the new things you could do with your extra AP. This made you feel like you progressed more and become more powerful and versatile, giving you a sense of progress without the mindless number bloat the game currently uses to do so. While some stats that gave you it were a little too powerful, I don't think that's a reason to abandon the system entirely. The flexible system in DOS 1 was superior, in my opinion.


I couldn't agree with this more. I really miss the sense of progression you got in D:OS1 by being able to raise starting / regen AP with attributes. I just hit level 10 the other night and combat doesn't really feel any different than it did at level 1 or 5. Sure I have a few more skills to use but the never changing AP means I'm almost always doing the same thing each fight.

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Originally Posted by UnderworldHades
Pretty much. For my mage, I know every single fight will start with impalement and fireball. There is no strategy. I get that they wanted to condense the AP so it allows for more or just make it easier, but really it's just made it more dull.


That's fair, but I also would argue in DOS1 and almost all TB games, there is a pattern on which you use and how you start. It isn't like this system started this. DOS1, get high init, have all my chars go first, lambast them with a series of commonly used skills. Rinse, repeat.

Not that I'm saying there isn't any reasonable thoughts against this system. To me it is just what it is, I have to think at best you are arguing for a different system in DOS3. To me there is no way they can make a drastic change now, like getting rid of Armor or making a big change to AP, there is 500K+ people that would wake up on a Tuesday in which 94% of the people like enough to vote it up and be like wtf? Mods can fix most of these things now.

Last edited by Horrorscope; 30/09/17 05:29 PM.
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Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Originally Posted by UnderworldHades
Pretty much. For my mage, I know every single fight will start with impalement and fireball. There is no strategy. I get that they wanted to condense the AP so it allows for more or just make it easier, but really it's just made it more dull.


That's fair, but I also would argue in DOS1 and almost all TB games, there is a pattern on which you use and how you start. It isn't like this system started this. DOS1, get high init, have all my chars go first, lambast them with a series of commonly used skills. Rinse, repeat.

Not that I'm saying there isn't any reasonable thoughts against this system. To me it is just what it is, I have to think at best you are arguing for a different system in DOS3. To me there is no way they can make a drastic change now, like getting rid of Armor or making a big change to AP, there is 500K+ people that would wake up on a Tuesday in which 94% of the people like enough to vote it up and be like wtf? Mods can fix most of these things now.


I don't really expect it to be changed in this game, but for the next game, yeah, there needs to be a bit of balancing with this.

But even then, in the first game having increased AP as you leveled up gave a bit more sense of progression, and it still ALLOWED you to do more, in this game, not so much.

zkxf335 #624205 30/09/17 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by zkxf335
Yeah I guess it's a choice between the elven racial+tactical retreat and glass cannon. I have found glass cannon to be ok for ranged characters, provided that you have good positioning (tactical retreat helps there as well).


I was so starved for AP, that I decided to try Glass Cannon... What a disaster. Any CC they have is thrown at you and only you. They know that you're running Glass Cannon, just like how they know Fane is undead instantly.

It's just awful.

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Originally Posted by Alexstrasza
Originally Posted by zkxf335
Yeah I guess it's a choice between the elven racial+tactical retreat and glass cannon. I have found glass cannon to be ok for ranged characters, provided that you have good positioning (tactical retreat helps there as well).


I was so starved for AP, that I decided to try Glass Cannon... What a disaster. Any CC they have is thrown at you and only you. They know that you're running Glass Cannon, just like how they know Fane is undead instantly.

It's just awful.


The AI knows everything about you pretty much. What is there that they DON'T know.

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Originally Posted by Alexstrasza
Originally Posted by zkxf335
Yeah I guess it's a choice between the elven racial+tactical retreat and glass cannon. I have found glass cannon to be ok for ranged characters, provided that you have good positioning (tactical retreat helps there as well).


I was so starved for AP, that I decided to try Glass Cannon... What a disaster. Any CC they have is thrown at you and only you. They know that you're running Glass Cannon, just like how they know Fane is undead instantly.

It's just awful.


This actually wouldn't bother me if it was just that some enemies have high loremaster, but it just seems to be soemthing it's freely given instead of balanced into the builds and encounters.

I get that it's there to give the AI an edge, but it makes certain things near pointless...such as glasscannon

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Originally Posted by UnderworldHades
But even then, in the first game having increased AP as you leveled up gave a bit more sense of progression, and it still ALLOWED you to do more, in this game, not so much.


The first game was an embarrassment of riches, it's a saying. It was a game where you literally could have 30 strong choices each move. I didn't mind that, but wow a balancing nightmare is what I saw, this feels tighter, more Xcom like in execution now. Sure opinions will vary. DOS1 stands out on it's own vs about anything else TB, I don't think I played a TB game with so much variety, too the point of "this maybe a bit ridiculous". Any time you make a change there are always people like what we had.

aj0413 #624352 01/10/17 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by aj0413
This actually wouldn't bother me if it was just that some enemies have high loremaster, but it just seems to be something it's freely given instead of balanced into the builds and encounters.


I can't comment on all the nooks and crannies some data/code could be. But the standard locations, I don't see anything pointing to NPC types having high loremaster across the board.

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I do think that unique gear and gear with skills don't mean as much considering you don't really get to keep them as long. If somehow with Modding you can get gear that levels up as well, with crafting or something, then it would be much better to find a unique piece of gear.

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Rather than blatantly increasing the cap of AP/recovery rate like in the previous game, which caused every build to be around having as much AP as possible, and like EA where the best build was abusing all the +AP skills that had no downsides at the time, I would prefer there be more talents that revolve around niche builds.

The lack of talents right now is the real killer in combat, as talents define characters more than any stat or set of skills. As examples, if you took bully, you'd want to take as many knockdown skills as possible. There were talents that made you immune to your least favourite conditions, meaning you could freely use those elements more. Slingshot and Pinpoint made grenade builds more approachable.

I'd rather see more talents like Elemental Affinity and What A Rush - you have to create specific situations for yourself, but the reward is that, while you maintain that situation, your AP costs are lowered, or you're able to chain skills with more freedom, etc.
- A Bully-equivalent that reduces the cost of single target skills when your opponent is knocked down.
- A talent that makes every Xth spell you cast use less AP.
- A backstab talent that, for every normal attack you make, you can slowly accumulate points that can be used to reduce the cost of skills.
- A talent that gives you haste when you perform a specific action, or simply provides you with bonus recovery for the turn after.
- A talent that lets you save double the amount of AP - so if you end your turn with one AP left over, you get two the turn after.
- A talent that reverses the effect of shocked, so that you're energized and instead gain AP, but the downside being that you're easily stunned when you lose your magic armor.

Those kinds of talents create fun, rewarding gameplay without relying on power creep, and given how slowly you accumulate talents, there's little chance that taking multiple of them will suddenly make you into an AP God, as you still need to fulfill the conditions on all of them.

My 2H Warfare/Necro tank, albeit a commonly used build, is a good example of how talents can make a build and give you a flexible goal in combat. I use Walk It Off and Comeback Kid, while actively using skills that case damage to me/actively try to get myself low, to take advantage of Walk It Off. When I die, I'm still in Walk It Off range after Comeback Kid, so I can reliably start my turns with 5 AP, heal myself above half health with my extra AP, and then still be alive when they hit me the next turn below that threshold again.

I much prefer the 'everyone has the same AP, but if you can maintain specific conditions, builds, or even accept sacrifices, you can gain more' approach. It makes the game a lot less linear, but everyone still feels as though they're accomplishing things when they reap the rewards for their actions. I hated that the previous game was just a case of everyone having 10 AP, dipping into every single tree, and casting as many spells as they can to create absolutely busted combos, to the point that power creep was clearly a factor by mid-endgame. It didn't encourage niche builds, it didn't require creative thinking - it got the point where even if it seems like you're doing something unique, everything else is still doing the exact same thing because they've got the same ridiculous AP and need to dump it all somehow.

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Last game you did have more AP, but you have to realize that all the skills also costed more AP as well, they didn't cost 2-3 AP. So it kind of balanced out, but the getting more AP from investing into Speed Stat (and in the previous game, you only got 1 attribute point and not every level) it was a bigger choice and investment.

As for talents, I have posted about it before, the lack of talents is a HUUUUGEEEE disappointment. It's not even the same amount of talents as the last game, it's lower! Like its a big letdown.

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Your spells had their AP costs and CDs reduced simply by investing in their schools and appropriate stats, so you could easily cast 4 - 6 spells a turn if you wanted. The Speed stat was the definition of power creep, as well as the most desired stat, so every top build was focused on it.

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