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#622427 27/09/17 01:34 PM
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So I want to preface this with saying that I really like how the game turned out (save a few nagging issues).

The music is fantastic, the voice acting is good a majority of the time. There's plenty to see and read that puts the world together if you take your time. The world feels like a world until Malady kicks the front door down. Allow me to explain...

An elven woman with great power and a half mask encounters you. She can freely weave in and out of the Hall of Echoes with no good explanation as to why- because as I remember in Ego Draconus that's a hell of a time just getting into it let alone diving in and out so whimsically as you do in this game.

She does banter with attempts at wit and sharp commentary but it all comes off as flat and cheesy. To boot she unbearably adulates the godwoken. She literally states she walks the line of demons and divine or something to that effect. That's really, really bad writing. She's a mary sue to the max- everything about her feels unearned and unexplained. She's easily my least favorite character and not for the right reasons- and don't get me started on Sebille.

The gods handle divinity as a mere game of thrones, there is nothing making me feel as if the divine are any different than a court of political sorcerers. Top this there isn't a true blue encounter against (SPOILER) your god. It just turns into a fight versus wimpy source representations and a mech of some kind? The entire concept of becoming divine and rising is so casually handled that it becomes more dull than the politics and ground wars taking place around the storyline. There's real grit to be had there- and past Fort Joy you get next to no taste of the brutality most seem to constantly describe. This isn't Diablo- but things get too calm and fantastical by comparison. The tutorial island is hands down the coolest part of this game. Ahru's encounter was the only thing that came close for me in terms of feeling true atmospheric threat.

The idea of an island made up of godwoken and not-so-godwoken beings baffled me near entirely. Why is something like this so casually springing up? Why can all this be so easily explains and slid along as if it were normal? The power fantasy is way too plain, here. I genuinely love everything that has nothing to do with the primary plot more than the main plot. It's too predictable, too by the books but in a bad way. We never get a true showdown with the voidwoken beyond some resized humanoid anglers, jellies, frogs, grubs, ONE giant grub, a few bugs and a kraken. Where are the huge scaling battles with the supposedly numerous and vicious voidwoken? I had more scraps with magisters and black ring than voidwoken.

Bloodmoon Island and it's corrupted tree had far more potential than it was given- so much tragedy could be staged there. The Undead Scarecrow was very, very underplayed. His dialogue was good, his character was menacing in his portrait alone and yet he turns into a semi challenging height-centric field battle. He couldve been a much a cooler, consistent villain.

Paladin Cork is the first character you see use Phoenix Dive and whoops serious ass- but he doesnt scale up or become a bigger badass as you move on to the coast. You think these NPCs may not leave an impression but you guys don't seem to understand just how cool some of your throwaway characters can be.

Game-related critique:

1. The warfare tree is really buggy on landing knockdowns and connecting some blitz targets. It's the buggiest tree I've worked with and doesn't contain the raw damage needed to make it a worthy comparison to the finesse and intelligence centric trees. I know it's supposed to be a mix of damage and cc, but the other stat types get cc and WAY more damage.

2. Rogues and casters are way too easy street and abusable. Nothing about playing them brings on a challenge- where your goal should be to give them a more clear set or disadvantages. Incarnates. Are. Broken.

3. From an arena standpoint I find it very pointless when you can be a summoner mage that can shield up and heal. You have no weaknesses here even on the game's hardest settings. None. There needs to be some imposed limits in the arena only.

4. Please fix the necrofire glitch in the consulate.

5. Please lower Phoenix Dive's cooldown. It doesn't do enough damage or provide enough benefits to warrant such a long wait time exploring non-combat areas.

6. Please make wit/finesse effect your ability to see an incoming wave of enemies or a dangerous npc.

I could go on way longer but I feel like it wouldn't be read. A lot of my complaints are tiny- but mostly that the concept of Divinity is handled far too casually.


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I really disagree on Malady, I find her to be amazing fun really. I think the response "y so serious?" is in order here.

We don't even know who she REALLY is except for some small crumbs on her origin which barely give anything. I think it's am interesting and mysterious character with some hidden agenda and her powers only add to that mystery.

She's not omnipotent either, those hall of echoes jumps seem to take a whole lot out of her, not "effortlessly" for sure.

Other than that, lighten up, not everything has to be grimdark 100% serious and not every interaction should be done with stoic solemn expression of grim determination. There are more than enough tragedies small and big in this game already.

So yeah, when I asked her where is she going and she answered "shopping", it brought a chuckle there, not a feeling of rage of "muh immershun!". It's good to have these bits, it is fun.


As for the gods, well SPOILER we just go ahead and find out how truly godly they are. They aren't gods at all, just a bunch of power addicts playing at divinity. They are also considerably weakened by the time you fight them.

Last edited by Gaidax; 27/09/17 01:47 PM.
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Originally Posted by Gaidax
I really disagree on Malady, I find her to be amazing fun really. I think the response "y so serious?" is in order here.

We don't even know who she REALLY is except for some small crumbs on her origin which barely give anything. I think it's am interesting and mysterious character with some hidden agenda and her powers only add to that mystery.
[...]

I'm inclined to agree: as Divinity games go, this one is already fairly serious and dark and I wouldn't want to encroach any further into its humorous aspects. I think they've played it about as straight as I would ever want with Malady and she'd lose a lot of character if there was no flippancy at all.


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Some good points to the story. Much is personal bias of course.

I like Malady. I always have the feeling she thinks "what a clumsy dork" when dealing with my main.

I don't get the critique of Warfare as a school and damage ability. I don't see many bugs there. Sometimes you have a strange restriction to target with Battering Ram, but that's the same for similar skills, like Bull Horns. If you target near the enemy in such cases, it often works fine.

Phoenix Dive is not about damage but positioning. You should take a similar skill from another school, either Tactical Retreat or Cloak and Dagger. It's so strong to be able to hop around.

Warfare is the best damage ability in the game to put points in, if you have physical damage. Warfare chars (I have two in the group, onehanded/shield and twohanded) have it the most easy way to profit from it because they need the school anyway. A ranged physical char putting points in "Ranged" first is a bit wrong. A mage or ranger (except with one source skill) cannot equal a twohanded warrior damage wise (but have other benefits), a rogue maybe.

Last edited by geala; 27/09/17 02:31 PM.
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Originally Posted by geala
I like Malady. I always have the feeling she thinks "what a clumsy dork" when dealing with my main.

Yeah, I got the same sort of feeling. biggrin

Originally Posted by geala
Phoenix Dive is not about damage but positioning. You should take a similar skill from another school, either Tactical Retreat or Cloak and Dagger. It's so strong to be able to hop around.

Although my opinion is barely worth listening to as I am literally the world's worst tactician evar, I did really feel that my one character who didn't have a useful repositioning skill was at a very serious disadvantage compared to the others.


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Originally Posted by Gaidax
I really disagree on Malady, I find her to be amazing fun really. I think the response "y so serious?" is in order here.

We don't even know who she REALLY is except for some small crumbs on her origin which barely give anything. I think it's am interesting and mysterious character with some hidden agenda and her powers only add to that mystery.

She's not omnipotent either, those hall of echoes jumps seem to take a whole lot out of her, not "effortlessly" for sure.

Other than that, lighten up, not everything has to be grimdark 100% serious and not every interaction should be done with stoic solemn expression of grim determination. There are more than enough tragedies small and big in this game already.

So yeah, when I asked her where is she going and she answered "shopping", it brought a chuckle there, not a feeling of rage of "muh immershun!". It's good to have these bits, it is fun.


As for the gods, well SPOILER we just go ahead and find out how truly godly they are. They aren't gods at all, just a bunch of power addicts playing at divinity. They are also considerably weakened by the time you fight them.


Not everything needs to be grimdark- in fact I enjoy a lot of the corny humor.

I don't enjoy Malady macguffining me in and out of the most powerful and discussed location in the Divinity lore whenever it happens to be convenient. The 'I am angel and demon' thing is almost adolescent in design choice- it's way too cheesy and overdone. I also don't appreciate her apparent 'badassery' but kind of fellates the main character at constant and delivering indirect praise. She's too confident that she can get the job done yet at the drop of a hat puts on a facade like she's about to do something that may not work. It ALWAYS works.

The game barely touches on the grim nature of competing for divinity and only barely scrapes the relationship between the seven and their indirect invitation of the Voidwoken.

My point being there's a lot of grandiose things being set up that fall flat due to the casual nature of just showing up and kicking asses. That's fine typically but I want to actually feel a little more hardship in a story where someone ascends to godhood- in a universe where most journeys to said status are riddled in war and conflicts of morality/ethics

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I actually really enjoy having Malady around as well.

She's a fail-safe char. You know there's no way you will ever win without her help (because enemies clearly has way too much firepower for you) and she will not be doing anything to make your life easier. Her existence give the players the much needed break between heated moments.

The lack of development and quests with her kinda suck though so she's not as enjoyable as she could have been. She has her personality and some conflicts going around with her background but because there's so little of her you will get to see in the actual game, most people really will just consider her a cliche "There-to-be-OP" type.

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I was not a huge fan of Malady. Like she goes on how difficult it is, but she still just drops by and does something, completely undermining your main characters.

Also, SPOILERS:

Is getting the Divinity a bad ending lol? Like you do all this, and I chose to get divinity just now and it says how Arx is still in battle, Driftwood is destroyed due to voidwoken and all that crap. Like you fight the whole game for divinity and that just gives you a bad ending?

So you have to sacrifice yourself in order to get a good ending?

Also, I played as a custom undead, and it looks like this whole story was based around Fane. Like at the very end you find out, ta-dah! Dallis is a eternal...and also a dragon knight(?!) Like alrighty then. I didn't have Fane in my party either, and it looks like this game was constructed around him, with him learning about the Veil, void being his people and Dallis being his daughter.

I'll probably replay the game later on as Fane, but...it looks like Fane is the main character, this whole quest and story is for him and every other origin character is just....well, a side char hopping on for the ride, IMO Fane should have been an NPC at this point, kind of like the Arhu or Weaver of time from the previous game. This big main char that helps the heroes on their journey as he leads and etc. Really the whole ending disappointed me.

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The plot is really weak so don't think much about that. It's actually just a straight line "Race for power" and the villains never get really any time to develop outside "They want power too and always beat you to it because they are better." Dallis is really a total BS with everything slapped on her to make her feel impactful but all she does is angrily scream every time she's on your screen.

This is why so many characters have to suffer for it because if the plot is weak, so are their characters. You pretty much just play it for the companions and that's probably why Fane feels like a main character to you. Each character (well, except for one) pretty much affect the fate of the entire race in general. Fane is just most obvious cause there's a very limited about of Eternal.

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I'm not a fan of Malady, not only does she also possess the "incredibly smug, smarmy, with just a touch of mean" personality that like 70% of the npcs in the game have for some reason, she comes out of nowhere, treats you like dirt, and the game gives you no option but to follow along. It's my story isn't it? I get why you need to follow her with how progression is set up, but I think that's lazy. Its more satisfying to give each character their own individual reasons to progress, so they feel like they're motivated by their own desires. Instead they went with "You need to follow this half demon elf mega sourcerer because you suck and it's the only way to get better." That is not the theme I expected or wanted for my character that was supposed to be godkin, inheritor to the divine. I would go as far to say it felt like a slap in the face after what the events prior built up. Overall it just feels like a cop out for progressing the story that could be handled much better, and the smarmy smug personality really just puts into the 13 year old writing category.

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Originally Posted by HUcast
Instead they went with "You need to follow this half demon elf mega sourcerer because you suck and it's the only way to get better." That is not the theme I expected or wanted for my character that was supposed to be godkin, inheritor to the divine. I would go as far to say it felt like a slap in the face after what the events prior built up.


You start the game as nothing, no source or divine powers, what choice do you have but to follow Malady really?

Also i don't get why people call her omnipotent, you know that travelling from Hall of Echoes can actually kill her? On one of my playthroughs she just collapsed and died at the start of Act 4. Such omnipotency right?

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Originally Posted by Ellezard
The plot is really weak so don't think much about that. It's actually just a straight line "Race for power" and the villains never get really any time to develop outside "They want power too and always beat you to it because they are better." Dallis is really a total BS with everything slapped on her to make her feel impactful but all she does is angrily scream every time she's on your screen.


Pretty much. Like, in the Arena of One, like I get she followed Lady Vengeance, but then she and her whole crew just teleported on that one little platform that isn't connected into anything.

Basically, they throw the villain at you to just progress plot, when you have someone doing something, you have to show how or explain or something. But that is not the case, she is just there bc the plot demands it. I find this problem in a lot of games and movies and it just annoys me. Like how did she get there? Where did she go? Really? And the end reveal of being eternal was just...ugh. Like then she ended up being a dragonknight too? Like is there anything else you don't wanna slap on her? Very lazy.

Also the Braccus Rex reveal pissed me off, like again? I get he was the vile sourcerer etc etc, but really, again? You couldn't start building up another big evil sourcerer (that wasn't some mustache twirling villain to begin with) and then make that the reveal. Like we just went through the Braccus thing last game, why again? If he's here, where is the weaver of time and Astarte, considering she's like what, the mother of all source? Really bad writing near the end of Act 2 to Act 3.

Originally Posted by HUcast
I'm not a fan of Malady, not only does she also possess the "incredibly smug, smarmy, with just a touch of mean" personality that like 70% of the npcs in the game have for some reason, she comes out of nowhere, treats you like dirt, and the game gives you no option but to follow along. It's my story isn't it? I get why you need to follow her with how progression is set up, but I think that's lazy. Its more satisfying to give each character their own individual reasons to progress, so they feel like they're motivated by their own desires. Instead they went with "You need to follow this half demon elf mega sourcerer because you suck and it's the only way to get better." That is not the theme I expected or wanted for my character that was supposed to be godkin, inheritor to the divine. I would go as far to say it felt like a slap in the face after what the events prior built up. Overall it just feels like a cop out for progressing the story that could be handled much better, and the smarmy smug personality really just puts into the 13 year old writing category.


Kinda how I feel. Like yeah, at first you are forced to bc she's the only way off the island, but as the game goes on, why can't I just tell her to fuck herself? Like she just goes on and on, and after how she treats you, she also expects you to help her out. Like why didn't I get a chance to turn on her, why couldn't I tell her to stick it where the sun don't shine? It just puts Malady up on a pedestal, where there are countless other NPC's who pretty much...act the same. Thinking their are big shots and everyone should follow em and etc etc.

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Originally Posted by RummyNG
The gods handle divinity as a mere game of thrones, there is nothing making me feel as if the divine are any different than a court of political sorcerers.



One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that, innit? This was a STRONG point to me. I'm actually surprised to see you bagging on this since you seem to dislike the typical fantasy tropes so stop me if you've heard this one before.

You start in humble beginnings but turn out to be the superultradivinesupreme! (Baldur's Gate 2:Throne of Bhaal, Skyrim, etc etc etc.)

The fact that the "gods" appear to be simply beings at a somewhat higher elevation in power but with a very Greek pantheon sort of human fallibility is quite refreshing. They are petty, jealous, petulant, and well, act very mortal. This is a nice change from the "FULFILL YOUR DESTINY CHOSEN ONE" that I've played in a dozen RPGs over the last decade or so.

The Game of Thrones posturing is a net positive, not a net negative, but YMMV of course.

Mechanically, you are pretty on point and wizards outclassing fighters especially at higher levels has been a problem since the 1st edition of D&D back in the late 70s. There is only so much you can do with a sword vs. the ability to call down thunderbolts like Thor himself. *shrug*

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Yeah, gods are nothing but other power hungry beings, but the fact that not just Gods, but pretty much everyone else is all going "DIVINITY" just makes it more annoying.

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Originally Posted by Darkwind
Originally Posted by RummyNG
The gods handle divinity as a mere game of thrones, there is nothing making me feel as if the divine are any different than a court of political sorcerers.



One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that, innit? This was a STRONG point to me. I'm actually surprised to see you bagging on this since you seem to dislike the typical fantasy tropes so stop me if you've heard this one before.

You start in humble beginnings but turn out to be the superultradivinesupreme! (Baldur's Gate 2:Throne of Bhaal, Skyrim, etc etc etc.)

The fact that the "gods" appear to be simply beings at a somewhat higher elevation in power but with a very Greek pantheon sort of human fallibility is quite refreshing. They are petty, jealous, petulant, and well, act very mortal. This is a nice change from the "FULFILL YOUR DESTINY CHOSEN ONE" that I've played in a dozen RPGs over the last decade or so.

The Game of Thrones posturing is a net positive, not a net negative, but YMMV of course.

Mechanically, you are pretty on point and wizards outclassing fighters especially at higher levels has been a problem since the 1st edition of D&D back in the late 70s. There is only so much you can do with a sword vs. the ability to call down thunderbolts like Thor himself. *shrug*

i have to say that i agree with this. the portrayal of gods (and divine beings in general) in this game was quite refreshing compared to most other games i've played that dealt with such concepts

"divinity" is also given a pretty open-ended definition, even among your companions. there's a pretty wide array of opinions for what divinity should be best used for, which brought it down from its celestial obscurity and made it more about being a traditional being of power with mortal ties. you're an all powerful "god", sure, but you still have your own limitations and flaws to wrestle with. there's no such thing as perfection, even among the divines

edit: i also really enjoyed malady. sure, at times she's basically just a plot device, but you have a literal god helping you at times; it's not unbelievable that other powerful beings would step in as well. i also enjoyed her personality, she was grounded, sometimes smug and rude, believed in the power of the divine but knew it didn't stop at merely "becoming" divine; you had to actually be a good one once you reached that point. she believed in you without gassing you up and turning you into some infallible being. i think that sums up this game's overall attitude towards divinity very well

it helps that her voice actor was terrific

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Same here, Malady is a terribly written Mary Sue that was forced on us. I hope Larian prepares a surprise for us with possibility of outright killing/beating up and dominating her at any moment. You will have to fend off Dallis on ship - okay. You will have to talk with citizen in Driftwood about sourcerers and search for the clues yourself - okay. You will have harder escape from Nameless Isle - okay.

It's really not an important character by any means, her role is overbloated for no reason and she is just openly forced on you. I wish we could atleast to teach her a lesson of being not so smug and stop threating main character like dirt.

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Really good critique.

This game touches on a lot of serious topics and fails to explore them properly. I also find the lack of lore for a lot of what is going on around to give a rather bland feeling to the world. Original Sin 2 paints a very interesting setting and Act 1 constantly and consistently builds on top of that, plus giving you a lot of smaller stories which just fortify the roleplaying immensely. Later on you learn more, but it is rather sporadic, as though the devs had enough of story/world building.

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Originally Posted by Yasen
I also find the lack of lore for a lot of what is going on around to give a rather bland feeling to the world.


I also felt disconnected from the world at times. Like literal Armageddon is happening in Paradise Downs - the ground has rent open, deathfog is spilling from the bottom, great upheaval, fire raining from the sky, oh, and the entire area is cursed with permanent decaying aura - and not only is it unclear why, Driftwood, the next town over, either hasn't heard of it at all, or else they don't think it's interesting enough to talk about. A merchant on the north edge just shrugs and goes, "it'll probably blow over".

I am a player am left bewildered. How am I supposed to feel about this when the NPC's treat it as just another day?


In Act 4, you hear talk about a voidwoken attack at the Dwarven wedding, but the guards outside don't seem concerned, the guard at the gate is still accepting invitations, the implication is that it was quickly quelled without much incident. But when you get in, you see a half-dozen bodies or more just lying there, and no one has shown any interest in even starting to clean them up. No big deal, just an attack which slaughtered half the guests, no need for the guards to get involved and do anything.

When you finally find Queen Justina, she argues that her actions, attempting to genocide the entire city of Arx was a preemptive strike because the Magisters are arming up.

They were? Like, that's kinda the first I've ever heard of that, except for ONE missable note in Act 1 where the magisters mention the Silent Monks might make good weapons in their campaign against the Lizard empire.

The game ties some of these personal quests as being important to the larger world, like the geopolitical situation between humans, dwarves, and lizards... but it never gives enough information on the larger picture to give players enough context to understand the situation. The Red Prince rules an empire, great, but what level of power can that empire project? Is it something to be feared if they get dragons?

How unified are the humans? They seem split between Paladin and Magister and there is no mention of any country or even a ruler? Is it supposed to be Alexander? Arhu? Kemm? I don't know, but I'm expected to answer questions about whether it's right to give the Lizards dragons or to genocide a bunch of humans as a preemptive, defensive strike.


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