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Originally Posted by SlynxJewel
Originally Posted by neurotic
Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Races are still about:
Undeads > Elves >>> others


How do you reliably heal yourself as undead?
Poison bottles only do a little bit.

easy. necromancy(passive and spells). poison bottle (ooze barrel + empty bottle) bigger poison bottles (bottle+bottle), leech + blood. poison zone (contamination + rain) and etc and etc.

Originally Posted by neurotic
Originally Posted by Luckmann
[quote=neurotic][quote=Kalrakh]Races are still about:
Undeads > Elves >>> others

How do you get Flesh sacrifice as undead elf though?

mask of the shapeshifter.
also you don't even have to be undead to utilize it.
and IMHO fane > custom undead (because of his source skill_)


Fane's native source skill really is the best one in the game huh. Combining it with a glass cannon character is truly funny.

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What is Fanes native source ability?

Also how do you use zaikk's talon??

I've tried combining it with empty bottles, with poison bottles, nothing seems to work?

Not sure what I am missing.

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Originally Posted by neurotic
What is Fanes native source ability?

Also how do you use zaikk's talon??

I've tried combining it with empty bottles, with poison bottles, nothing seems to work?

Not sure what I am missing.


Combining it with HEALTH POTIONS.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by neurotic
What is Fanes native source ability?

Also how do you use zaikk's talon??

I've tried combining it with empty bottles, with poison bottles, nothing seems to work?

Not sure what I am missing.


Combining it with HEALTH POTIONS.


That is incorrect sir.

I've tried that, so perhaps it's glitched?

"Click on health potion, select combine, add ZT and hit combine - Invalid combination"

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Originally Posted by neurotic
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by neurotic
What is Fanes native source ability?

Also how do you use zaikk's talon??

I've tried combining it with empty bottles, with poison bottles, nothing seems to work?

Not sure what I am missing.


Combining it with HEALTH POTIONS.


That is incorrect sir.

I've tried that, so perhaps it's glitched?

"Click on health potion, select combine, add ZT and hit combine - Invalid combination"


That's not incorrect, that's exactly how it works.

In the combination window:

Input: Health Potion + Zaikk's Talon
Press 'Combine'.
Output: Poison Potion

If that doesn't work, it might be bugged.

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Last edited by neurotic; 28/09/17 09:21 PM.
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Yes. The best race is Eternal.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Corpse Eater was too good, and you're still saving the cost of a skillbook. If someone was to complain about racial abilities not being worthwhile and needing a buff, Elf would still be towards the very bottom of the list.


Corpse eater is horrible, flavor only with no real purpose except saving a few hundred gold in a game where you get hundreds of thousands. +1 Loremaster is horrible for similar reasons (more because it's easy to max when you need it anyway). I still wouldn't pass it up because this is an RPG and flavor is everything, but since you can mimic it with the Mask of the Shapeshifter and NEVER need to have it in combat, it really offers no benefit to being an elf.

The saving grace of elven racials is the Flesh Sacrifice ability. Being able to gain +1 AP on demand is game changing, and you can even do it twice with Skin Graft.

Compare to Humans, who get +5% crit, +2 Initiative, +1 Bartering AND a somewhat useful buff. 5% crit is useful to everyone except backstabbing rogue, 2 initiative is great for absolutely everyone, +1 bartering is good because (unlike loremaster) that skill is useful over the 5 cap. Encourage is maybe questionably useful, but it doesn't come at the horrible cost of Flesh Sacrifice.

The other competitor for best racials is Undead Human, with the same Ingenious perk and the Play Dead ability that opens up a TON of tactical options. And being able to lockpick with your fingers saves you from having to buy lockpicks at every opportunity. Not a huge gold save but running out sucks. The "Undead" trait (heal/poison switch) does more harm than good though.

Originally Posted by HUcast
Originally Posted by SlynxJewel
Originally Posted by neurotic
Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Races are still about:
Undeads > Elves >>> others


How do you reliably heal yourself as undead?
Poison bottles only do a little bit.

easy. necromancy(passive and spells). poison bottle (ooze barrel + empty bottle) bigger poison bottles (bottle+bottle), leech + blood. poison zone (contamination + rain) and etc and etc.

Originally Posted by neurotic
Originally Posted by Luckmann
[quote=neurotic][quote=Kalrakh]Races are still about:
Undeads > Elves >>> others

How do you get Flesh sacrifice as undead elf though?

mask of the shapeshifter.
also you don't even have to be undead to utilize it.
and IMHO fane > custom undead (because of his source skill_)


Fane's native source skill really is the best one in the game huh. Combining it with a glass cannon character is truly funny.


I'd say it's a tossup between Fane's ability and the custom character "Dome of Protection" ability. Fane's extra turn is powerful, but Dome scales REALLY well all game. It's one of if not the strongest armor-heal in the game, competes as one of the strongest overall heals in the game, and then gets reapplied every turn for 5 turns to every party member in range, and it doesn't even hurt your Undead. ALL of the other innate source abilities are shit that you probably won't ever even use.

Last edited by Sotanaht; 29/09/17 03:24 AM.
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I just have one question. Dafuq you need 80 res scrolls for??? Holy shit I thought I was overboard holding 5 per character...

Edit: NVM just realized crafting window shows shared inventory in one window, probably has 20 scrolls per character but still.. DAMN 20 PER!?!?!!?

Last edited by ExecutiveCivic; 29/09/17 03:18 AM.

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Originally Posted by Sotanaht

I'd say it's a tossup between Fane's ability and the custom character "Dome of Protection" ability. Fane's extra turn is powerful, but Dome scales REALLY well all game. It's one of if not the strongest armor-heal in the game, competes as one of the strongest overall heals in the game, and then gets reapplied every turn for 5 turns to every party member in range, and it doesn't even hurt your Undead. ALL of the other innate source abilities are shit that you probably won't ever even use.


You CAN time-warp your team mates too.

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Originally Posted by rk47
Originally Posted by Sotanaht

I'd say it's a tossup between Fane's ability and the custom character "Dome of Protection" ability. Fane's extra turn is powerful, but Dome scales REALLY well all game. It's one of if not the strongest armor-heal in the game, competes as one of the strongest overall heals in the game, and then gets reapplied every turn for 5 turns to every party member in range, and it doesn't even hurt your Undead. ALL of the other innate source abilities are shit that you probably won't ever even use.


You CAN time-warp your team mates too.


I'm aware of this. I said the ability is powerful. I just think Dome is also very powerful. The two are so vastly different that I can't say which one is strictly better.

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Originally Posted by Sotanaht
Corpse eater is horrible, flavor only with no real purpose except saving a few hundred gold in a game where you get hundreds of thousands.


Quote
Compare to Humans, who get +5% crit, +2 Initiative, +1 Bartering AND a somewhat useful buff.


So Corpse Eater is bad because you get tons of gold already, but Bartering is good?

Also LOL at the idea of the LITERALLY DOES NOTHING STAT initiative being "good" and double LOL at Encourage being "somewhat useful".


Quote
And being able to lockpick with your fingers saves you from having to buy lockpicks at every opportunity. Not a huge gold save but running out sucks.


Okay, this cements it: you're trolling. Lockpicks are ridiculously plentiful and after Fort Joy Harbour you'll probably never run out. Also while Undead get free lockpicks, they do not get free points into Thievery to know how to use them.

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You guys are forgetting the part about corpse eater that grants you certain spells without having to invest the base skill point necessary to learn said spells

Edit; maybe that was EA i don't remember. They could have changed it.

Last edited by ExecutiveCivic; 29/09/17 04:06 AM.

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Originally Posted by ExecutiveCivic
You guys are forgetting the part about corpse eater that grants you certain spells without having to invest the base skill point necessary to learn said spells

Edit; maybe that was EA i don't remember. They could have changed it.


They changed that because that was effectively granting many free ability points to the Elf, which was super powerful.

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Originally Posted by neurotic
Originally Posted by geala
It was and would really be too good to be able to use skills without points in a school other than from items (which can be used by any race). Because points in schools have a big meaning, so the elf would be much stronger than others from the combat abilities alone.

And you have to take into account that they did not make Flesh Sacrifice let you lose an ap the next turn which is nice and kept this racial strong. I cannot use it on my main (male elf) as I do not want to lose my shield but on non-shield chars like my Sebille ranger it's great.


I don't understand what you referring to with the shield?
I've only ever used it on my 2h elf knight.


Using Flesh Sacrifice you lose Constitution. As shield use needs a certain number of Constitution, you lose your shield if Constitution goes under the threshold. As Constitution is a crap stat and nobody likes to put points in it that can happen quite easily. It is manageable of course, just put enough points into Constitution or do not use Flesh Sacrifice. I play elf for the look, not the racials. grin

Last edited by geala; 29/09/17 07:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Sotanaht
Corpse eater is horrible, flavor only with no real purpose except saving a few hundred gold in a game where you get hundreds of thousands.


Quote
Compare to Humans, who get +5% crit, +2 Initiative, +1 Bartering AND a somewhat useful buff.


So Corpse Eater is bad because you get tons of gold already, but Bartering is good?

Also LOL at the idea of the LITERALLY DOES NOTHING STAT initiative being "good" and double LOL at Encourage being "somewhat useful".


Quote
And being able to lockpick with your fingers saves you from having to buy lockpicks at every opportunity. Not a huge gold save but running out sucks.


Okay, this cements it: you're trolling. Lockpicks are ridiculously plentiful and after Fort Joy Harbour you'll probably never run out. Also while Undead get free lockpicks, they do not get free points into Thievery to know how to use them.

corpse eater is bad because it doesn't give you anything.
if you'll need scoundrel you'll get your adrenaline anyway(same with others skills). but it doesnt' exactly save you lots of money, because you can steal or take the books from the dead bodies.
in EA corpse eater helped helped to make some builds you wouldn't make otherwise. (though ability was powerful. yes)

barter on the other hand can be useful throughout the whole game.

as for lockpicks it's a decent passive. sometimes it can help you to save some time in rare cases when you either ran out of lockpicks or they were removed from you,

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Originally Posted by GreatGuardsman
Corpse Eater significantly unbalanced the game where, along with their other bonuses in EA, they significantly outclassed every other race by a significant margin.

Being able to skip investing in certain trees, especially early on, gave elves a very obvious advantage over other races on the power curve (It didn't help that literally the first available meat item in the game gives you Adrenaline) when combined with their other traits, giving them unprecedented support abilities and flexibility at no cost. The races should all be equally valid options, and ought to represent an altered playstyle in and out of combat rather than a clear best answer.

Totally agreed, I liked it in EA, but it felt completely OP.
I like how it is now.

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Honestly I thought the corpse eater would be used to get information and provide different ways to progress more often, but the information is, 99% of the time, flavorful but useless to the plot.

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