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In first question: anyone from developers read this? Or posts useless?

And next. i am not very good in english. So, excuse me for google-translate. I hope, someone from englishppl can remake my post to native language, and remake post with these ideas.

Google translate:


To begin with, I want to say that my friend and I play tactics (the most difficult), and there are no problems with complexity. We like it, some fights have to be restarted 2-3 times, but this is a rarity. The game has almost passed, the final of the fifth act. For all the passage repeatedly pumped, having tried almost all classes, and comparing them among themselves.
And this is what accumulated for the passage.

Armor system.
Already very much written about this issue. But, I believe that this is the biggest problem of the game, which makes it much more boring and tedious than it could be. Therefore, it is necessary to talk about this as much as possible. It is desirable that each message starts with this question. I dream that the full potential of the game is revealed completely. And this system hinders this.
I understand that the developers wanted to remove the system of odds controles. But, firstly, this had its own charm. Secondly, they not only took away the chance, but also shared the damage. So the group of sorcerers + physicists play is unprofitable and not interesting. And some schools of magic they just killed this system.
I'll try to paint everything in detail.

1. This system punishes a different type of damage to the group

We play together with a friend, in two characters. I played magician, he is a warrior. And a very "funny" situation was on one boss, whose magic shields were more than his health. While my friend was beating this boss with swords, and bore him health, I can not do anything, and only scratched his shields. When I demolished the shields to the boss - he almost did not have any health left. That is, in fact, I could just skip a turn, allowing my partner to fight 1 on 1.
It seems to me that this is not the point of a joint party game.
And such situations are very frequent. Different damage from the group often hinders, than helps.

2. This system significantly reduces the variety of gaming opportunities.

In the first part it was very interesting to play with, so to speak, control classes. For example, a fat mage is a hydromancer who studies exceptionally freezing skills and survival. But in this part this is impossible - because the magic shields. Such a magician simply does not have any damage. He can not break through the magic shields of opponents, and therefore can not control them. That is, many different variations of development are discarded.

3. This system kills a variety of tactics and weapons.

You were happy in the first part of the game, when you lost the legendary fire sword, with a huge divided damage? Certainly. So do I. But in this part I'm sad about it. Why do I need magic damage on a warrior? An archer or a robber? They are absolutely useless. Magic damage on this weapon does not give effects and damage - as it can not penetrate the magic armor. Much better, instead of such legendary swords, take the usual white. He will not have any additional effects, but there will be more white physical damage.

4. This system kills the balance and unilateral development of the characters.

What do you think about magicians who destroy everything around with fire and poison? I adore such people. But the trouble is - in this game, these do not live. If you want to play for a mage - be sure that you have to pump strength and physique, instead of damage. Because the magic items have very little armor, which means that any enemy will calmly punch and control you. It so happened that in this game it is the physical classes that are especially dangerous. They penetrate the armor of the magicians literally in one turn, after which there is continuous control. That is, the armor system, invented so that there is no uninterrupted control - works against the magicians.
And if you remember that the power of the magicians, even in the first part, was not in the damage, but in the mass control, then everything here becomes completely sad.


5. Summary and proposals.


The system, which was made as something new and original, diversifying the gameplay - was very poorly thought out.
What you can do with this:
a. It is necessary to remake the very essence of protection. It should not protect against direct damage, but only from negative effects. All damage must go directly to the health of the enemies, as well as damage and protection. For this, it is necessary to increase the health of the enemies on the value of their protection, and to weaken the defense itself.
b. You should also add a chance effect. The less protection from the enemy - the greater the chance of passing a negative effect. At 0% protection - 100% chance of triggering.
c. If a negative effect is triggered on the enemy, the protection must be restored to a certain value. Combined with the previous paragraphs, this does not hurt to inflict damage to the enemy, as protection from damage will not be protected. And at the same time it will not allow to continuously keep the goal in control, because for this after each control it will be necessary to shoot down the defense.

Similar changes can restore viability to any classes and groups, without changing the gameplay basis of protection. In this way:

- The vitality of enemies will not change - their protection will be added to health.
- Infinitely to keep the goal in control will be impossible.
- The meaning of protection will not change - it will also add vitality, just need to collect better things, with more protection.
- Unviable classes will again be in the ranks. Mages will not have to pump power for survival, because even magic shields will give them survival against physical attacks, but they will not get protection from physical controls in this way. As it was intended by the developers originally.
"Control classes will return to the system." Let them not be as effective as in the first part, but even a slight damage to the enemy's defense will allow them, with some chance, to control the target.

Such changes will not bring about serious changes in the balance, but will diversify the game. I sincerely hope that the developer will pay attention to this problem, and do something.

Stealth system.
Stealth in the game is useless slightly more than completely. The character receives 4 AP per turn. And the same amount is required to hide. That is, in order to use stealth in combat, at least two moves need to be idle.
On the one hand, it is clear that this was done so that it would be impossible to abuse covertness and complicate the game.

But not everything is easy.
If a person plays alone, without party members, then it does not matter to him how much the AP is concealed. He will finish the move until he accumulates a maximum of AP, and skills will not roll back.
But when playing with the party members everything changes. There it is already impossible to indefinitely sit in secrecy, waiting for the rollback of skills. But the 4 AP for stealth makes this skill completely useless, and even harmful.
4 ap on stealth does not bring any visible benefit to the balance of the game, but only hurts the variety of gameplay possibilities.

Two-handed and one-handed weapons.
Then I turn to the topic of balance. My friend and I play tactics. And we tried almost all classes. Some classes are stronger, some weaker. But this terrible nonsense that is happening with a two-handed and one-handed weapons, can not be described in any way.

It's just antipodes to each other.
Two-handed weapons - it's a wild, super-strong, imbalance to the impossibility of damage. He kills any bosses in one move, for three hits. On any act, at the highest complexity, with a mod to increase complexity. In the fourth act, crits of four thousand, in the fifth act of seven or eight thousand.
I, playing for a robber, fully learned skills of weapons in each hand and a killer, completely invested in dexterity, with the best daggers that were found by all traders and with their bosses, I put 1,400 damage in the back. The magician deals even less damage.

And quite the opposite situation. Sword + Shield. This is the most useless of all the options for the development of the character. In the first part of the tank was needed to take fire on themselves, to live and control the enemies. But with the current system of protection it is impossible - until you demolish the enemy's defense, you will not do anything to him. A sword + shield does not deal damage at all. He does not deal damage. Just does not do. While a two-handed weapon kills an enemy for 2-3 hits, a sword + shield kills the same enemy 30-40 strokes. In this way, the role of the tank is absolutely meaningless and is not needed.

Main features.
Very disappointing change in the main characteristics.
Now, in order to learn new skills, we must abandon survival or damage. Is not this nonsense? For the magician in the intellect so do not play at all - the skills are much more kickbacks, and to play in this magician, you need a lot of skills. So you have to study "Memory". So, you can not do much damage either.
And you can not change the number of APs. All classes are equal to each other, all receive the same number of AP, all need the same number of AP per hit. This is the most terrible stupidity. When a two-handed weapon, with unimaginable damage, requires the same amount of AP to strike, as well as a single-handed weapon strike. When there is absolutely no difference between a bow and a crossbow, the crossbow simply does more damage.

This AP system also requires recycling, as is the protection system.


Thanks for attention, this is only the most basic. that I had accumulated for the first passage of the game at the most difficult level.




My native language: russian.

Для начала хочу сказать, что мы с другом играем на тактике (самый сложный), и проблем со сложностью нет. Нам нравится, некоторые бои приходится перезапускать по 2-3 раза, но это редкость. Игру уже практически прошли, финал пятого акта. За все прохождение многократно перекачивались, попробовав почти все классы, и сравнив их между собой.
И вот то, что накопилось за прохождение.

Система брони.
Уже очень много написано про данный вопрос. Но, я считаю, что это самая большая проблема игры, которая делает ее гораздо более скучной и нудной, чем могло бы быть. Поэтому об этом надо говорить как можно больше. Желательно, чтобы каждое сообщение начиналось с этого вопроса. Я мечтаю, чтобы весь потенциал игры раскрылся полностью. А данная система этому мешает.
Я понимаю, что разработчики хотели убрать систему шансовых конролей. Но, во-первых, в этом была своя прелесть. Во-вторых, они не только убрали шанс, но и разделили урон. А значит группой из магов+физиков играть невыгодно и не интересно. А некоторые школы магии они просто убили данной системой.
Попробую все расписать подробно.

1. Эта система наказывает разный тип урона в группе

Мы играем вдвоем с другом, в два персонажа. Я играл магом, он воином. И очень "забавная" ситуация была на одном боссе, у которого магические щиты были больше, чем его здоровье. Пока мой друг бил этого босса мечами, и сносил ему здоровье, я ничего не могу сделать, и лишь царапал его щиты. Когда я снес щиты боссу - у того уже практически не оставалось здоровья. То есть, по факту, я просто мог пропускать ход, позволяя моему напарнику драться 1 на 1.
Мне кажется, что не в этом смысл совместной партийной игры.
И подобные ситуации весьма часты. Разный урон у группы чаще мешает, чем помогает.

2. Эта система значительно уменьшает разнообразие игровых возможностей.

В первой части очень интересно было играть с, так сказать, контроль классами. Например, толстый маг гидромант, изучающий исключительно замораживающие навыки и выживаемость. Но в данной части такое невозможно - поскольку магические щиты. У такого мага просто нет урона. Он не может пробить магические щиты противников, а значит не может контролировать их. То есть множество разных вариаций развития отбрасываются.

3. Эта система убивает разнообразие тактик и вооружений.

Вы радовались в первой части игры, когда вам выпадал легендарный огненный меч, с огромным разделенным уроном? Безусловно. Я тоже. Но в этой части я этому печалюсь. Зачем мне магический урон на воине? Лучнике или разбойнике? Они абсолютно бесполезны. Магический урон на этом оружии не дает эффектов и урона - поскольку не в состоянии пробить магическую броню. Намного лучше, вместо таких легендарных мечей, взять обычный белый. У него не будет дополнительных эффектов, зато будет больше белого физического урона.

4. Эта система убивает баланс и одностороннее развитие персонажей.

Что вы думаете о магах, уничтожающих все вокруг огнем и ядом? Я таких обожаю. Но вот беда - в этой игре такие не живут. Если ты хочешь играть за мага - будь уверен, что тебе придется качать силу и телосложение, вместо урона. Ибо магические шмотки имеют очень мало брони, а значит любой враг тебя спокойно пробивает и контролит. Так получилось, что в этой игре именно физические классы особенно опасны. Они пробивают броню магов буквально за один ход, после чего идет беспрерывный контроль. То есть система брони, придуманная, чтобы не было беспрерывного контроля - работает против магов.
А если еще вспомнить о том, что сила магов даже в первой части была не в уроне, а в массовом контроле - то тут становится все совсем печально.


5. Итог и предложения.


Система, которая была сделана как нечто новое и оригинальное, разнообразящая игровой процесс - оказалось очень плохо продумана.
Что можно с этим сделать:
a. Надо переделать саму суть защиты. Она не должна защищать от прямого урона, а только от негативных эффектов. Весь урон должен проходить напрямую по здоровью врагов, так же повреждая и защиту. Для этого надо увеличить здоровье врагов на значение их защиты, а саму защиту ослабить.
b. Так же следует добавить шансовый эффект. Чем меньше защиты у врага - тем больше шанс прохождения негативного эффекта. При 0% защиты - шанс срабатывания 100%.
c.При срабатывании негативного эффекта на врага защита должна восстанавливаться на некоторое значение. В совокупности с предыдущими пунктами это не помешает наносить урон врагу, поскольку защита от урона защищать не будет. И одновременно не позволит беспрерывно держать цель в контроле, поскольку для этого после каждого контроля придется сбивать ей защиту.

Подобными изменениями можно вернуть жизнеспособность любым классам и группам, не меняя геймплейную основу защиты. Таким образом:

- Живучесть врагов не изменится - их защита будет прибавлена к здоровью.
- Бесконечно держать цель в контроле будет невозможно.
- Смысл защиты не изменится - она так же будет добавлять живучесть, так же надо будет собирать вещи лучше, с большей защитой.
- Нежизнеспособные классы снова будут в строю. Магам не придется качать силу для выживаемости, поскольку даже магические щиты будут давать им выживаемость от физических атак, но вот защиту от физических контролей таким способом они не получат. Как и было задумано разработчиками изначально.
- Снова в строй вернутся контроль-классы. Пусть они будут не так эффективны, как в первой части, но даже незначительное повреждение защиты врага позволит им, с некоторым шансом, контролить цель.

Подобные изменения не внесут серьезных изменений баланса, но разнообразят игру. Я искренне надеюсь, что разработчик обратит на данную проблему внимание, и что-то да сделает.


Система скрытности.
Скрытность в игре бесполезна чуть более, чем полностью. За ход персонаж получает 4 AP. И столько же требуется, чтобы скрыться. То есть, чтобы использовать скрытность в бою, требуется минимум два хода бездействовать.
С одной стороны ясно, что это сделано для того, чтобы было невозможно злоупотреблять скрытностью, и усложнить игру.

Но тут не все просто.
Если человек играет один, без сопартийцев - то ему абсолютно все равно, сколько AP стоит скрытность. Он будет завершать ход до тех пор, пока не накопит максимум AP, и не откатятся навыки.
Но вот при игре с сопартийцами все меняется. Там уже невозможно бесконечно сидеть в скрытности, ждать отката навыков. А вот 4 AP на скрытность делает этот навык абсолютно бесполезным, и даже вредным.
4 ap на скрытность не приносит никакой видимой пользы балансу игры, а лишь вредит разнообразию геймплейных возможностей.

Двуручное и одноручное оружие.
Тут я уже перехожу к теме баланса. Мы с другом играем на тактике. И мы перепробовали почти все классы. Какие-то классы сильнее, какие-то слабее. Но вот тот жуткий бред, что творится с двуручным и одноручным оружием, не описать никак.

Это просто антиподы друг другу.
Двуручное оружие - это дикий, сверхсильный, имбалансный до невозможности урон. Он любых боссов убивает в один ход, за три удара. На любом акте, на самой высокой сложности, с модом на увеличение сложности. В четвертом акте криты по четыре тысячи, в пятом акте по семь-восемь тысяч.
Я же, играя за разбойника, полностью изученные навыки оружия в каждой руке и убийцы, полностью вложивший в ловкость, с лучшими кинжалами, которые нашлись у всех торговцев и выпашвих с боссов, наношу 1400 урона в спину. Маг наносит урона еще меньше.

И совсем обратная ситуация. Меч+щит. Это самый бесполезный из всех вариантов развития персонажа. В первой части танк нужен был, чтобы принимать огонь на себя, жить и контролить врагов. Но с текущей системой защиты это невозможно - пока не снесешь защиту врага, ты ничего ему не сделаешь. А меч+щит не наносит урона вообще. Он не наносит урона. Просто не наносит. В то время как двуручное оружие убивает врага за 2-3 удара, меч+щит убивает того же врага 30-40 ударов. В таком ключе роль танка абсолютно бессмысленна и не нужна.

Основные характеристики.
Очень разочаровало изменение основных характеристик.
Теперь, чтобы выучить новые навыки, надо отказываться от выживания или от урона. Разве это не бред? За мага в интеллект так вообще не поиграть - у навыков очень больше откаты, и чтобы играть в настоящего мага, надо очень много навыков. А значит надо изучать "Память". А значит и урона много не сделаешь.
И при этом нельзя никаких изменить количество AP. Все классы равны между собой, все получают одинаковое количество AP, всем требуется одинаковое количество AP на удар. Это ужаснейшая глупость. Когда двуручное оружие, с невообразимым уроном требует столько же AP на удар, сколько и удар одноручным оружием. Когда между луком и арбалетом абсолютно нет разницы, арбалет просто наносит больше урона.

Данная система AP Так же требует переработки, как и система защиты.


Спасибо за внимание, это лишь самое основное. что накопилось у меня за первое прохождение игры на самом сложном уровне.


Last edited by Lebrucht; 29/09/17 10:07 AM.
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I forgot about another important feature - the initiative. With her, too, something needs to be done, because no matter how high your group's initiative was, the enemy always goes second. Stupidity.

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About armor system, lebrucht, u only played as 2, without any companions, right? All the problems you quoted only exist on that scenario, really. But its true that some of them exist.

1- You really cant do much when you are the only one that use magical CC, and have none else to do magical damage, but you can always support and buff.
2 - What? hydro doesnt have damage? I rly disagree... Maybe you are new into the game, but a solo hydro build with glass cannon and stuff and hurt, A LOT.
3- Magical damage weapons are great when that damage is also increased (elemental marksman for example), and it helps your mages break the magical armor.
4- Fire/earth mages are supposed to do damage, while water/wind mages usually have less damage and more CC, both will have low defenses, right, but thats about positioning, i couldnt care less for ppl controlling me as a mage, i almost always play glass-cannon xD

About stealth: It was like 1ap before, which broke the game, so they nerfed it a lot, but i agree it should be 3 ap, or just remove it on fights, it rly doesnt make sense to become a rock in a middle of a fight.

Two/one-handed: Yes, you are absollutely right about that, such imballance throughout the game. 2hande starts weaks, then just ramp up at act 2 and become ridiculous...
Dual wield is kinda OK, compared to the rest (besides 2h).
Mages do a LOT of damage earlier, then they rly fall behind late game... And yes, shields need to be buffed in all acts.

About memory: I rly like the system lol.

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It's true that the armor system is being heavily discuted, but I believe the better solutions will come in mods, not a rework to the system by the devs, since there are people who liked the system and the way it cancels out RNG effects. I just wasn't sure about what you proposed: Would attacks damage both armors or just the relevant one (besides directly hitting health)?

I believe another way to make stealth viable is by making Invisible characters spend no AP to enter stealth, thus making Guerilla a viable talent. Also, make backstab apply when sneaking, regardless of character position, so invisible characters can better position themselves for an attack when comming out of invisibility. And please, add an Invis spell to scoundrel, one invis spell on the game is not enough.

Another problem I'd like to add is the Initiative problem. The way it works on Tactician is just straight bad.

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Actually I think shields give a lot armor but are mostly suited for mages because they do not need the 'autoattack' damage. But its true, sword and shield is bad. Very bad.

Quote
About armor system, lebrucht, u only played as 2, without any companions, right? All the problems you quoted only exist on that scenario, really. But its true that some of them exist.

1- You really cant do much when you are the only one that use magical CC, and have none else to do magical damage, but you can always support and buff.
2 - What? hydro doesnt have damage? I rly disagree... Maybe you are new into the game, but a solo hydro build with glass cannon and stuff and hurt, A LOT.
3- Magical damage weapons are great when that damage is also increased (elemental marksman for example), and it helps your mages break the magical armor.
4- Fire/earth mages are supposed to do damage, while water/wind mages usually have less damage and more CC, both will have low defenses, right, but thats about positioning, i couldnt care less for ppl controlling me as a mage, i almost always play glass-cannon xD


All of these problems do exist if you play 4 PCs.
2. I think that OPs paragraph was meant more as a 'hydro deals less because its mostly for CC' and thats true. It doesnt deal little but less then Pyro and less then Source skills from Areo. And to be honest Areo has the best CC in the game so...

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Originally Posted by laiozatt
About armor system, lebrucht, u only played as 2, without any companions, right? All the problems you quoted only exist on that scenario, really. But its true that some of them exist.

1- You really cant do much when you are the only one that use magical CC, and have none else to do magical damage, but you can always support and buff.
2 - What? hydro doesnt have damage? I rly disagree... Maybe you are new into the game, but a solo hydro build with glass cannon and stuff and hurt, A LOT.
3- Magical damage weapons are great when that damage is also increased (elemental marksman for example), and it helps your mages break the magical armor.
4- Fire/earth mages are supposed to do damage, while water/wind mages usually have less damage and more CC, both will have low defenses, right, but thats about positioning, i couldnt care less for ppl controlling me as a mage, i almost always play glass-cannon xD

About stealth: It was like 1ap before, which broke the game, so they nerfed it a lot, but i agree it should be 3 ap, or just remove it on fights, it rly doesnt make sense to become a rock in a middle of a fight.

Two/one-handed: Yes, you are absollutely right about that, such imballance throughout the game. 2hande starts weaks, then just ramp up at act 2 and become ridiculous...
Dual wield is kinda OK, compared to the rest (besides 2h).
Mages do a LOT of damage earlier, then they rly fall behind late game... And yes, shields need to be buffed in all acts.

About memory: I rly like the system lol.


No, all problems exists with 4 ppl MORE than for 2 ppl. Simply because lone wolf very powerfull skill. Very. Damage from 2 lone-wolfs more, than from 4 original persons.
For example, with 2 ppl lone wolf mage can damage enemy with low magic shield, and warrior kill enemy with armor.
In 4 ppl just 2 mages must assist on one enemy with low magic shield, so 2 warriors must assist enemy with armor. And it's more harder, because every from 4 ppl weaker, could be controlled and killed.

1. Yes, in this system mage can be only support. You think it's good?
2. Yes, hydro doesn't have damage. Only one-swordsman have less damage, than hydro.
3. It's very-very stupid. Elemental damage on physic weapons very very low. It's not really helps mages. Especially when physics kill enemies with low armor, mages killes enemies with low shields. Mages and physics need to attack DIFFERENT targets. They can't help one another.
4. Positioning in this game means NOTHING. Really. All enemies have teleports and dashes.
When i played mage, i tryed to start battle after my friend, close to the end of turn. this only one way to survive 2-3 turns on tactics.

I don't like memory because it's must have for some classes. What reason add this stat to the game?
This is the same thing that generally remove the development of characteristics from the game, as a lot of points of development go to the pumping of memory. It's just stupid. With the same success, you can remove the parameter memory from the game, and for the level give 1 point of development, instead of two.

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Hmm, what to say? Best would be, nothing. Second best, I disagree with most of what you said. The devs don't need to change some core elements of the game, they made the game modable and mods may solve your problems. Instead the devs should concentrate on the real annoying things, like quests being not solvable because you did y before x.

To the armor, it is rarely advisable to concentrate all chars on one enemy , it's often better to go two on one. Mixed groups are ok in this. That's admittably not possible against bosses where some mixed damage is always wasted against the armor shields. But as bosses are not such stupidly extreme armor and health monsters as in other games, it is manageable.

Lone Wolf is indeed a strong talent. Some have calculated that two lone wolves are the equivalent to the damage of about 8 normal chars. They mayby should go the hybrid damage way and have both magical and physical damage on each char, so that nobody has to idle around in boss fights.

Shield and sword is weak? Why? There is a bit more than damage in the game.

Last edited by geala; 29/09/17 08:20 AM.
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2 categories of ppl
1. likes quests
2. likes fights

I like quest and fights and economy.
Quest is quite interesting, story too, but its only half of good RPG, thats why game needs to be reworked

- boring stats rolling on items (tired of save/loads cos the game have no restrictions for that)
- boring looting with lucky charm (u need to change the system that allows u to randomise item appearence order by opening another chest or trade window)
- boring talks with NPC (u need to talk to em with all of ur characters in order to reveal all content)
- boring save/load in order to try different dialogue options
- boring fights (battle system is bad. I have a post of better one)
- boring thievery (u can steal 10+ times from each NPC by creating new mercenaries. Didnt try shapeshifting)
- boring WELL (u can buy 35 purple belts and rings by using all ur 7 characters and Shapeshifting)
- boring desigions (kill for exp or kill later for exp after completing his possible future quest. Or even complete Winter Dragon quest but kill him duaring dialogue for more exp and loot and even being dead he will help u with shrinkers)
- boring tons of money (maybe the option to reroll item stats with some gold cost will solve some economy issues and decrease save/load attemps for rolling items after lucky charm)
- boring stools blocking (Enemy should know how to move objects in fight)
- boring companions but lone wolf is boring too (4 AP is boring. on average its just 2 hits or move and hit. 6 AP of lone wolf is good and better for tactical purposes and comboattack planning but his OPness is boring)
- boring quest rewards (u can sometimes receive up to 7 rewards for the quest by talking with NPC with each of ur characters. Didnt try shapehifting maybe it works too)
- boring items sorting (especialy in chest or begs. Can we have an option to mark some items with CTRL+click and then(in one click) move all marked to another character or chest? And the autosorting button in chest)
- boring removes of autoadded scrolls bombs and bottles.
- boring tries to create Tank for my party (enemy ignoring him. He cant agro em. Even under effect of agro archers sometimes can hit another character with non AOE autoatack. Dead class)
- boring arena mode (Is it hard to create arena where u could fight using ur campain characters? System will search for an oponent with equal (+/- few if u wish) levels, summ of attributes/talents/perks, party size)

hard work playing this game :)
I know, casuals dont have this problems. But not the real gamers.
Btw, i dont have this boring problems in Gothic for exemple i just have fun playing the game.

Good games have a good rules and restrictions (chess, football, etc). Game w/o rules and restriction is not the game.

P.S. Hey, NPCs, i killed all Magisters. Path is clear! U dont want to escape anymore? Ok, live ur NPCs life forever... or better DIE for 250 exp each!

#Larianreworkarmor

Last edited by Roamer; 30/09/17 06:52 AM.

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Not really, damage is core in this new divinity, only a blind foul would think other wise. Or a casual. But why a casual would talk about game balance ?

To cc a target, to apply tactics others than "oil everywhere teleport", you MUST break physical/magical armor.

And ofc 1h shield warriors are useless : they are here to cc ? to taunt ? with their shield sup ? Why not just make a much tankier necro warfare with insane dps and insane regen ?

Damages > all, and physical >> magic, that's the main flaw of DOS2

Last edited by CollaSama; 29/09/17 05:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by Zerd
not a rework to the system by the devs, since there are people who liked the system and the way it cancels out RNG effects?


We have RNG - dodging, crits, dmg ... so we could have RNG with CC. And people who likes current system dont care about it.


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All go twitter, write
@larianstudios #dos2 #larianreworkarmor

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Originally Posted by CollaSama
Not really, damage is core in this new divinity, only a blind foul would think other wise. Or a casual. But why a casual would talk about game balance ?

To cc a target, to apply tactics others than "oil everywhere teleport", you MUST break physical/magical armor.

And ofc 1h shield warriors are useless : they are here to cc ? to taunt ? with their shield sup ? Why not just make a much tankier necro warfare with insane dps and insane regen ?

Damages > all, and physical >> magic, that's the main flaw of DOS2


What's your issue? I haven't heard a post this snobby and elitist in all my time on the forums. Shouldn't you be playing pathfinder?

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that system is bad. they could prevent CC by some other method. i.e. let all the gamage go directly for vitality (so mages and figthers could cooperate effectively) but grant mobs with 1 single "CC-shield" parameter that could be reduced by some special skills, so you got сhoice - kill fast with burst damage or focus on CCing them.

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Originally Posted by Lebrucht

My native language: russian.

Bloody obvious.
I could read the entire post with an Ivan Drago accent way before reading this confirmation at the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Lebrucht

My native language: russian.

Bloody obvious.
I could read the entire post with an Ivan Drago accent way before reading this confirmation at the bottom.

I doubt you know Russian even to the same extent as he knows English.

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Originally Posted by Sergey Butsenov

I doubt you know Russian even to the same extent as he knows English.

Sure.
I also doubt he knows Italian as well as I do, but I'm not sure why that's relevant.

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I really don't agree with... almost everything said by the OP.
Let's see...

1 - I really don't agree.
My main solo campaign have : an undead shadowblade (dual-dagger, scoundrel, necromancer), the physical damage dealer. Sebille as a warrior (sword & shield, pyro, little bit of geo), doing both physical and magical damage. Lohse as an enchanter (hydro, aero, little bit of summon and necro). Nothing more, doing magical damage. I have no problem with the armor system : my undead takes care of mages, Lohse takes care of warriors and Sebille assist the one that needs it the most. The only troublesome fights were against Adramalhik, Mordus (mainly because I was underlevelled and with poor gear), the Eternal in the coffin (forgot the name, same reason than Mordus) and Alice. I stumble in some fights where I get obliterated from time to time, but some planning and strategy allow me to overcome them easily. The problem isn't armor, but strategy : you must use highgrounds and positionning.

2 - As said, my Lohse is an Hydro/Aero and she fares well in the damage department. She does more damage than my pyro Sebille, since Sebille has a Warrior build and, as such, no intelligence investment. Damaging abilities aren't numerous but I can manage... Even if the ennemy has armor, I uses damaging combos : wetting opponents with rain and ice totems befor casting hydro and aero damaging spells do wonders. As with the Armor, use tactics...

3 - Magic damage on physical weapons is far from useless : I ALWAYS put a fire run on Sebille's weapon. Why ? To ignite flamable surfaces. I always put an air rune on Lohse staves, to electrocute blood and water surfaces. From damage perspective, magical damage on a physical weapon isn't good, but it has its uses. Same as before... strategy, my friend.

4 - Again, wrong. My Loshe has a mediocre physical armor (even with masterwork runes) but she stands proud in the middle of a large electrified water puddle. Opponents wont rush her as often as they would if she wasn't. And she can stand in hazardous zones thanks to her insane magical armor... Add to that the skill that allows her to spend less AP to cast spells if standing in the same element, the ability to teleport opponents somewhere else and this is full of win.

5c - Perseverance, my friend. It does exactly that : restore some armor depending on the control affecting him.


Stealth - I can agree to what is said yeah.


Two-handed vs single-handed - As said, my Sebille is a sword and shield warrior... She is far frome useless, even without taunt on : she survive fights but can't prevent opponents from damaging my fragile Lohse ? No problem, she is loaded with resurrection scrolls anyway... She can't do damage ? Wrong... Tossing shields does a lot of damage and bounces. That said, I agree that two-handed weapons do too much damage compared to other weapons. This, in my opinion, is why you feel everything doesn't do any damage. Two-handed weapons are a no brainer and if you takes the habit of using them, you forget how to be a tactician.


Main features - Again, I disagree. Sure, two-handed do insane damage, but "sacrificing" intellect for memory isn't a loss... because what you loose in damage, you gain in versatility. My Lohse has a lot of spells, teleport others, heal, grant magic armor, control zones, shock, stun, chill, freeze, summon totems and so on... Tactical possibilities is what makes fights interesting.
Your view of the game and its problem is interesting because it reveal what you are looking for : damage, huge damage, killing opponents quickly without too much thinking.
I do not use two-handed weapons (apart from staves) BECAUSE it does too much damage. I like interesting (not necessarily difficult) fights. If my opponents drop too quickly, I cannot enjoy tactical planning.

In the same vein, I think AP is fine as it is. Conservation of AP, haste spell and tactical retreat makes a difference. More would kill such advantage. In my current lone wolf summoner gameplay, the AP augmentations is an incredible advantage in istelf... Sure, it's cool to be overpowered, to kill everything before it has time to react. But it's not that interesting...


For me, the only real problem, apart from the stealth costing too much AP, is the amount of damage two-handed weapons deal. But that's it : two-handed weapons deal too much damage, not the other way around - as in, everything else is lacking.
This. And summonners are insanely overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Myrmicus

I have no problem with the armor system : my undead takes care of mages, Lohse takes care of warriors and Sebille assist the one that needs it the most.


yes, game is to easy, thats why u have no problem in fights
but armor system From MassEfect is not good at all
that system even have no logic. And we have RPG not arcade game.

How do u think if u have ur armor broken all dmg will hit ur broken armor? or some portion will go directly to hp?

... metal armor protecting u from chicken form.... how it is possible?
... 1000 tons Dragon w/o armor could be easely knocked down by 80 kg character....
... bear cub in metal armor.... maybe something like 20% phys resist is quite more logical?

Originally Posted by Myrmicus

In my current lone wolf summoner gameplay


read the forum post about summoning before too late

Last edited by Roamer; 30/09/17 02:32 PM.

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Originally Posted by Roamer
yes, game is to easy, thats why u have no problem in fights
but armor system From MassEfect is not good at all
that system even have no logic. And we have RPG not arcade game.

... metal armor protecting u from chicken form.... how it is possible?
... 1000 tons Dragon w/o armor could be easely knocked down by 80 kg character....


Wha... Mass Effect armor system ? Really ? That's not the same system, I didn't even mention Mass Effect... "Degrading DOS2" and calling it "arcade game" while it isn't an arcade game at all... Lousy shortcut to prove your point is what you're doing here.

Now, I can understand some of the things you may view as a lack of logic, but there are some...
Metal armor protecting from chicken form ? Physical protection is what prevents you from being affected by physical effects... bleeding, decaying, and so on... there is logic in this : chicken form is a physical transformation and, as such, is protected by physical armor.
How your puny warrior can knock down an enormous dragon ? Use its weight against him... Strike the legs. Real martial arts do use the opponent's wieght against himself.

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no.
u should be a chickn inside armor

but with phys armor dragon have more weight.... why i cant use his weight agains him?

Last edited by Roamer; 30/09/17 02:38 PM.

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