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There has been a lot of feedback on this topic, but I think simply combining the armor into one is the most simple and effective solution. As it currently stands the most synergy you can get in a party... is every member with the exact same spec, and then all members with the same damage type.

I don't intentionally power game, but I'm so experienced with these sorts of games and just have fun optimizing and theorycrafting builds that I can't really help it. If something is suboptimal, I'll notice and can't ignore it. In divinity OS:1 I enjoyed a large variety of party comps and many could be viable. In OS:2 I'm having a lot of trouble with that. It's either all physical, or all mages. Even with mages, i'm finding it's best to have them all the same element like pyro / geo or aero / hydro. That way their surfaces dont' conflict and you can just turn the battlefield into a synergistic firing range.

Though, magic synergy is far less a problem than physical/magic synergy, being that there is NONE at all.

Beyond combining physical and magical armor there is a second solution, which is to make magic CC blocked by physical armor (some are, like impale) and make physical CC blocked by magic armor. This isn't as ideal since it FORCES a diverse party, but it's better than the current way of things that imo forces all the same damage type in a party.

though magic has the option of necromancy to deal physical damage and physical damage dealers have options to deplete magic armor as well. I think that both solutions are viable and would be most welcome.

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Will copy my previous msg

In terms of CC they are combined
In Terms of Dmg they are splited


The less total armor u have the more ur chances to receive CC. The more broken ur armor the more dmg goes directly to ur HP.



1. Summ of two types of armor protecting you from CC with a chance

Exemple.
You have 140 phys and 60 mag armor (200 total = 100%)

- if u have full bar of armors you are 100% resisted

- after receiving 100phys dmg u will have 40 phys / 60 mag armor left.
Ur total armor become 40+60 = 100.
And ur ressist to CC now 100 / 200 *100% = 50%

- if u lost all ur phys armor u still have 60 mag armor
And ur ressist to CC will be 60 / 200 * 100% = 30%

- only if u have 0 phys and 0 mag armor u ressist to CC will be 0%


2. Damage reduction

- If u have full bar of armor all dmg done to u hits directly ur armor
- if u have 50% of phys armor bar (armor is broken smile ) ur armor will receive 50% of dmg and 50% goes directly to HP (cos u have ur boots broken smile ).
- same with mag dmg type

3. Dmg fixes

- nerf 2-handed, some summoned
- buff magic


SO
If u want to CC with 100% u need to shred 2 types of armor to zero
The lower ur armor the slower it breaking cos biger portion of dmg goes to ur HP, but even with low armor u still have a chance to resist CC

In this system u dont need party of 4 phys or 4 mag dd to be effective. Even 1 mage in classic party (rogue, archer, tank, mage) can help u to increase CC chance by dealing dmg to Mag armor.
u always have a chanse to CC or to receive a CC depends of total armor left on u or ur enemy.
u and ur enemy have a good resists to CC in early rounds.
dont be scare to use chicken form vs 2 armor left smile U dont need exect zero to have a good chance to transform enemy into chicken.

Due to this system enemy should have their armors buffed from 20% in early game to 200% in late game (cos of unreal dmg scaling)

Last edited by Roamer; 30/09/17 05:59 PM.

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The one thing I like about the armor system is that they do away with RNG CC effects. Those felt shitty and I agree with a system that combats them. I'd like to keep it that way, but it can be done better. I don't think any change should be introduced that brings back RNG CC

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I honestly laugh at the idea that people get mad about RNG in games.

That's like disliking dice rolls in D&D. Life is based on weighted chance and having a completely deterministic system makes the game more boring. It also makes it a metric fuck ton easier.

Why? Cause now the impetus in now on the AI to keep combat interesting, but nope that's never gonna happen. Especially on multiple playthroughs. Who wants to play against the same opponent using the exact same tactics that will fall to the exact same input every time?

RNG forces uniqueness into each match and keeps a player on their toes. You can never be 100% whats gonna happen and thats a good thing.

And what I find even more hilarious? This argument concerning save scumming in a single player game. Like for real? If you don't want to cheat; don't. It's that simple.

Binary systems suck ass. RNG system was million times better. But maybe I'm just too old school and not getting why the 'new' crowd is all into Diablo 3, COD, ect....

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Originally Posted by YOGZULA
The one thing I like about the armor system is that they do away with RNG CC effects. Those felt shitty and I agree with a system that combats them. I'd like to keep it that way, but it can be done better. I don't think any change should be introduced that brings back RNG CC


Damn thats again
we do have RNG... u could miss with warfare knokdown charge for exemple. and alots of other RNGs

Last edited by Roamer; 01/10/17 07:00 AM.

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#larianreworkarmor

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#larianreworkarmor


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I like the new system quite a lot... It makes the game less dependant on dice rolls than the previous system while leaving quite a lot of choice... You can for example use the necro death wish while still having armor... You can kill something with huge amounts of armor with piercing damage
And most of all, it simplifies the system a LOT by removing all of the damage reductions that you previously had to deal with (not knowing if your skill would deal 100% or 50% is quite a big deal)

Overall I think it's a nice system that allows for a more balanced approach and more diversity in skills and interactions

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New system removes only phys dmg reduction (and its bad).
You stiil have tons of magical dmg reductions.
You have primitive tactic of shreding 1 type of armor
Unlogical armor mechanic
Same dice rolls with crits dmg and dodge so as a result - with CC too
Hints like in other games could help you to know how much dmg you will deal or how high is your chances to aply CC
Just activate Hints checkbox in D:OS 2 EE smile

#Larianreworkarmor


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Originally Posted by Roamer
Originally Posted by YOGZULA
The one thing I like about the armor system is that they do away with RNG CC effects. Those felt shitty and I agree with a system that combats them. I'd like to keep it that way, but it can be done better. I don't think any change should be introduced that brings back RNG CC


Damn thats again
we do have RNG... u could miss with warfare knokdown charge for exemple. and alots of other RNGs


This is not the same as first game where bloody shit like a mundane lightning spell from some random dude with it's 20% chance to stun can CC you to shit multiple times, just because. Or your CC does not stick because "fuck you".

Yes, you can still have things like evasion or blind introduce that, but at least you bloody know that this guy is evading or you are blind and it's not something constantly happening, as opposed to previous game where everyone was constantly evading or you were always blind when it came to planning CC.

The fact that I can safely predict that my CC or enemy CC will stick and prepare/plan for that is a BIG plus of armor system in this game.

Does not mean it's perfect, but I believe it is better than not having it.

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There's a way to solve the synergy between physical damage and magical armor without adding RNG back to the game:

Add both armor values to the health pool. Make the attacks deal damage to both health and the proper armor.

Eg.: Current target has 200 HP, 100 Physical Amor, and 150 Magical Armor.
After the change, same target will have 450 HP, 100 Physical Armor, and 150 Magical Armor.
If someone attacks with a fireball that deals 50 damage, the target will be left with 400 HP, 100 Physical Armor, and 100 Magical Armor, thus, not getting burned because it has Magical Armor left.

This change might increase overall effective health to enemies, since a party composed solely of physical damage or magical damage would be able to ignore the other armor, dealing less damage overall to kill a target. However, I believe this is a good change, since it would make hybrid characters or diversed parties more optimal, while also allowing necro to be more usefull overall. Not only that, heals would also be more valuable, since hardly someone would be full health. Maybe some talents would need some rework (like Hot Head).

Another solution for those who actually like RNG is to make the same modifications, but adding the % chance-based on armor left CC's, like many proposed already.

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Originally Posted by Zerd

Another solution for those who actually like RNG is to make the same modifications, but adding the % chance-based on armor left CC's, like many proposed already.


This that "total armor left %" system
- u could still planning ur 100% CC after shreding all armor (shred armor and welcome to current ingame system)
- u are immune to CC for the first rounds
- mixed party become more valid
- u should not be scare to cast CC if enemy have 1-2% of armor left
- its easy to track ur chances of CC by looking at armor bar
- its better for endgame fights where u are so OP and dont scare of random CC while u have at least 1% of armor
- its better to keep in mind that not 2 types of armor are protecting u from different spells but just 1 - total armor
- it will add more intersting moments into the fights

And i tired to say that we already have tons of unpredicteble things. Or maybe u know where will be water pools after using RAIN spell? Or maybe u know where u will fall stepping on ice?
But some guys thinking they are playing Chess with that new mega armor system

Last edited by Roamer; 01/10/17 04:19 PM.

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Originally Posted by Roamer
Originally Posted by Zerd

Another solution for those who actually like RNG is to make the same modifications, but adding the % chance-based on armor left CC's, like many proposed already.


This that "total armor left %" system
- u could still planning ur 100% CC after shreding all armor (shred armor and welcome to current ingame system)
- u are immune to CC for the first rounds
- mixed party become more valid
- u should not be scare to cast CC if enemy have 1-2% of armor left
- its easy to track ur chances of CC by looking at armor bar
- its better for endgame fights where u are so OP and dont scare of random CC while u have at least 1% of armor
- its better to keep in mind that not 2 types of armor are protecting u from different spells but just 1 - total armor
- it will add more intersting moments into the fights

And i tired to say that we already have tons of unpredicteble things. Or maybe u know where will be water pools after using RAIN spell?
But some guys thinking they are playing Chess with that new mega armor system


Your example of rain is again fixed by armor and positioning, not to mention surface and effect transformation. Yes loss of control or critical debuffs should not be unpredictable.

It's one thing to lose control because you fucked up and whole another thing having this happen because some shit spell rolled that small chance to cc against you. You may not recognize it but the fact of the matter that CC now is much more predictable and planned as opposed to previous game where it was largely RNG fest.

And no, this does not mean that RNG does not exist now, but at least you don't lose turn or get screwed just because ridiculous bad luck happened. And no, it's not chess, but in turn based combat tactics is something valuable and it's nice to be able to plan CC and counters accordingly instead of praying to God almighty.

Last edited by Gaidax; 01/10/17 04:14 PM.
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I already answered - shred armor and ull be fine
even in new "total armor" system

And dont fuck up on ice

P.S. Half of possible disables depends of accuracy RNG or of some other RNG conditions

Last edited by Roamer; 01/10/17 04:28 PM.

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fix damn armor system. make some stanalone CC blocking parameter, remove that horrible phys\mag armor and give our mages\figthers ability to cooperate effectively!

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I think giving every character a physical ward and a magical ward would be a better solution:
- The physical ward should be either inactive or active
- The magical ward should be either inactive or active
- Status effects should be applied if the corresponding ward is inactive
- The physical ward should be active at the beginning of every turn
- The magical ward should be active at the beginning of every turn
- Physical weapons should have the basic skill "Shatter" to set the physical ward to inactive
- Elemental weapons should have the basic skill "Dispel" to set the magical ward to inactive
- Both skills should cost 2 ap and they should have the same range as the equipped weapon
- Armor should increase the resistance against physical, air, earth, ... damage by x %


But the following solution would be probably easier to implement:
- Reduce the current armor values by 25 %
- Remove the Perseverance skill
- A character should regenerate 25 % of his magic armor when he is frozen or stunned
- A character should regenerate 25 % of his physical armor when he is knocked down or petrified

Last edited by Wizard1200; 02/10/17 01:02 PM.
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Interesting mechanic. But a bit unlogical
i cant understand how its possible to repair armor while stunned (same with Perseverance skill)

wards is interesting too, but from another universe
in this universe we already have wards - armors, magic shilds, etc.

and 2 ap cost each round for 100% CC... its like u have max 2 ap in every round.
reducing current armor by 25%? so it will be more easy to oneshot mobs w/o any cc.

Last edited by Roamer; 02/10/17 01:20 PM.

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As another idea:

Join those bars together and give the new bar 3 states:
physical, neutral, magical

Physical armor gets only half damage from physical attacks (warriors), magical only half damage from magical attacks (mages), neutral armor gets normal damage from both kinds (archer, rogues, etc.) or alternative neutral gets only half damage from both, but offers in general lower numbers of armor. Not sure what would be better.

Heavy armor will give you physical armor, leather/light armor neutral and mage clothing magical.

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Originally Posted by Roamer

and 2 ap cost each round for 100% CC... its like u have max 2 ap in every round.
reducing current armor by 25%? so it will be more easy to oneshot mobs w/o any cc.


One character could disable the ward of an important target and another character could apply a status effect with a skill.

Killing enemies with a single attack is very difficult on tactician in my opinion.

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Some guys likes to play solo
its possible to oneshot or kill in one round and go to stealths/retreat/clouds etc.

Last edited by Roamer; 02/10/17 05:15 PM.

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