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that's just not my experience, but then i don't play this game the same way that you do

i definitely understand getting bored if that's your experience though

Last edited by miaasma; 02/10/17 02:20 PM.
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Why would they comment on something that is working as they intended it to? Not to mention the harassment and hostility that seems to come with that topic from certain individuals on this board lately.

I enjoy the armor system. I love the challenge. On that note, has anyone noticed how the writing and lore are so amazing:)


"Keep distant, My own demons still haunt me too closely. I cannot also bear the burden of yours."
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The armor system has no inherent problem. You might like it or not, but it's a matter of taste. I like the system better than DOS, fro example. You might not like it as much, but quit with the arrogance to demand some kind of official position from the developer at this point.

I also think the classes are pretty balanced. Different battles let different characters shine. I also found multiclass chars pretty useful.

I also think the game is not hard at all, being actually easy at times (in tactician). There were very few fights I had to load and it's been quite enjoyable.

Those are my opinion, just like the opposite positions are opinions, stop with the "... is BROKEN!!!" because you didn't enjoy it.



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Originally Posted by Zherot
The fact of the matter is that the system requieres changes, it is poorly designed and there are many reasons on why is this, many people have said it in many posts, it is not up for debate.



Lol, clearly you are wrong and it is up for debate, as this thread and all the numerous others show.

So let's just say that YOU don't like the way Armor is handled.
Get a group together and make a mod to adjust it.

People have already adjusted CC powers so that they bypass armor. The scripts for damage in general should be accessible and those can be changed to check Resistances instead of Armor to apply effects.

Have at it! ^_^

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He got banned from the forum because of his behaviour, so he won't have at it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Gel214th
Originally Posted by Zherot
The fact of the matter is that the system requieres changes, it is poorly designed and there are many reasons on why is this, many people have said it in many posts, it is not up for debate.



Lol, clearly you are wrong and it is up for debate, as this thread and all the numerous others show.

So let's just say that YOU don't like the way Armor is handled.
Get a group together and make a mod to adjust it.

People have already adjusted CC powers so that they bypass armor. The scripts for damage in general should be accessible and those can be changed to check Resistances instead of Armor to apply effects.

Have at it! ^_^


Bethesda has really ruined people... just because modding exist does not mean that modders should be the ones fixing glaring design flaws or imbalances.

But more importantly, these discussions are important so that DOS3 is better designed. If flaws or potential issues aren't pointed out, the system is less likely to be improved nor will it be improved as much.

Wouldn't you prefer a BETTER system rather than a static one?

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Armour system is such an improvement over dos. The only issue I see is the scaling ans the dirth of higher level armour healing spells. If you could economically reforge equipment to be at your level, it would solve a lot of issues


gambling on some rng cc affect is not a deep strategic decision. It's just a sign of gambling addiction.
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Originally Posted by Igniz13
If you could economically reforge equipment to be at your level, it would solve a lot of issues


This.

In DOS2 there is no feeling worse than unlocking a cool unique weapon/armor after a long quest and see it become absolutly useless after 1-2 levels. frown


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Indeed!

That level scaling is one of the biggest problems, imho. Not the only one, but a significant one.


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Originally Posted by Dopelgingembre
If you could economically reforge equipment to be at your level, it would solve a lot of issues
I somewhat agree (because everything is junk after 2 levels) but how to do it?

Money isn't an issue so it would make all later found items boring. Crafted stuff is shit too.

I don't know the answer apart from reducing the difference between levels (and then everyone will say mid-end game is too easy which it already is).

Perhaps you could only do it once or twice with a "bring this to my level" rune.

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I think that the armor system is great. However, I do feel that it does need a little more balancing. Either the amounts of armor need to be scaled down (I'm playing in Classic, I can't even imagine Tactician) or new skills need to be developed to more quickly remove the armor.

I think the armor concept is good, but I do feel like the gap between the start of combat and being able to use the crowd control skills is too much right now. Also, each class should have options for removing each armor type. A wizard should be able to more quickly remove magical armor, but should also have some more options for removing physical armor. It stinks to have a turn with a character and not really have anything for them to do.

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Originally Posted by Lady Cassandra
On that note, has anyone noticed how the writing and lore are so amazing:)

That's a really low standard even for video games

I don't really care about the combat mechanics, as long as they are not annoying, then they are ok. Doesn't really matter since the game is easy anyway.

The good things about this game are level design, ambient and music. I hope Obsidian can learn from Larian in this aspect for Pillars of Eternity II. They can write a decent story but their choice of presentation is just painful, one can't move from point A to point B without ridiculous number of loading screens...

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I think having 2 physical + 2 mage team being strictly inferior to 4 of one or the other is silly. My 2h warrior smacks a guy around, wrecks his face, knocks him on the ground...then my mage throws a fireball at him that does zero damage. Oh hey but then my ranger has arrows that straight ignore all armor for some reason...

Does it make the game unplayable? Nope. But it definitely hurts build diversity in a game that is designed very heavily around being able to make diverse builds. You can be diverse in this game...it means you'll be strictly inferior in every way to someone who just stacks warfare + physical damage though. What's the point of a 'battle mage' when it means you need to eat through two sets of armor? It makes any build that combos damage types a "trap build". It's also incredibly common for people to report that they had to scrap their first 2, 3, 4 parties because combat was too hard with their gimped build choices - which is a sign that the combat system isn't as intuitive as people in this thread seem to claim it is.

I also don't really know how to solve this problem other than by completely redoing armor. Have armor give elemental resistances and physical resistances and then merge magical armor and physical armor into one stat - then use the resistances as a roll check modifier to a CC saving throw instead of "1 point of physical armor blocks knockdown, 1 point of magical armor blocks frozen".

And honestly the posts in these threads where people are like "I never had any problems and I'm on tactician" seem to be counter-productive. You mean you have a party with one spell caster and 3 physical and you didn't notice that the spell caster is completely useless because they have to break through magical armor by themselves? Or do you mean you had a pure physical or pure spell damage comp and so this wasn't a problem for you? There's no denying that the game is designed to let you mix and match a huge amount of things but if you actually do mix and match stuff, you're punished for it. That's a poor design element. Anyone who plays the game for a bit can figure out how to 'beat' the system but that doesn't mean the system is good.

Last edited by dcgregorya; 05/10/17 08:48 PM.
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I'm sure it's been mentioned before but wouldn't the easiest fix to armor be to create a third "basic" armor type that is a combination of both physical and magic? For example, if someone has 100 physical armor and 100 magic armor, they now have 100 "basic" armor that both damage types can burn through. Or if it's uneven armor values, like 100 physical and 200 magical, they could instead have 100 basic and an additional 100 magical armor. The devs can mess around with conversions like increasing basic armor by 50% to balance out the increased lethality of combination damage.

Wouldn't this fix the biggest issue with the current armor system?

Last edited by Scythemage; 06/10/17 02:35 AM.
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Originally Posted by PutCashIn
..., how did we allow this passed EA without picking up on this shit?


Saw it in EA.
Complained like crazy on this forum about it during EA.

Devs never commented once on the topic.

They obviously had a goal of dumbing down the combat to appeal to the lowest common denominator of gamers this time.

Simply means that Larian is no longer a 'must buy' developer. Will always wait until well after release before making any decisions.

It takes so much intentional self gimping of my party to find anything remotely resembling a challenge that I am constantly fighting off boredom with the combat in DOS2.

And the armor system is 100% to blame.

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Originally Posted by dcgregorya
I think having 2 physical + 2 mage team being strictly inferior to 4 of one or the other is silly. My 2h warrior smacks a guy around, wrecks his face, knocks him on the ground...then my mage throws a fireball at him that does zero damage. Oh hey but then my ranger has arrows that straight ignore all armor for some reason...

Does it make the game unplayable? Nope. But it definitely hurts build diversity in a game that is designed very heavily around being able to make diverse builds. You can be diverse in this game...it means you'll be strictly inferior in every way to someone who just stacks warfare + physical damage though. What's the point of a 'battle mage' when it means you need to eat through two sets of armor? It makes any build that combos damage types a "trap build". It's also incredibly common for people to report that they had to scrap their first 2, 3, 4 parties because combat was too hard with their gimped build choices - which is a sign that the combat system isn't as intuitive as people in this thread seem to claim it is.

I also don't really know how to solve this problem other than by completely redoing armor. Have armor give elemental resistances and physical resistances and then merge magical armor and physical armor into one stat - then use the resistances as a roll check modifier to a CC saving throw instead of "1 point of physical armor blocks knockdown, 1 point of magical armor blocks frozen".

And honestly the posts in these threads where people are like "I never had any problems and I'm on tactician" seem to be counter-productive. You mean you have a party with one spell caster and 3 physical and you didn't notice that the spell caster is completely useless because they have to break through magical armor by themselves? Or do you mean you had a pure physical or pure spell damage comp and so this wasn't a problem for you? There's no denying that the game is designed to let you mix and match a huge amount of things but if you actually do mix and match stuff, you're punished for it. That's a poor design element. Anyone who plays the game for a bit can figure out how to 'beat' the system but that doesn't mean the system is good.


Your mage should check for targets with low magic armour and shoot them, or focus on setting up magical threats or summons or something.

It's hard to near impossible for one magic user to do everything you'd want from magic. They don't have the ap to heal and damage, cleanse and do area control. It'd have to be a lone wolf and it'd still be a stretch.

Conversely, it's fairly easy to have the one physical damage guy, amidst 3 casters, but then expectations for him would be low.


gambling on some rng cc affect is not a deep strategic decision. It's just a sign of gambling addiction.
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Originally Posted by Qiox
Originally Posted by PutCashIn
..., how did we allow this passed EA without picking up on this shit?

It takes so much intentional self gimping of my party to find anything remotely resembling a challenge that I am constantly fighting off boredom with the combat in DOS2.

And the armor system is 100% to blame.


I'm curious how that's posible. If everything but the armor stayed the same, what would change?

I've seen complaints that it forces them into going 100% damage and nothing else matters. I'd argue that is only the case turn 1 (or sometimes later that turn, since you set it up so a later character could CC the target), and CC becomes very relevant afterwards.

The fact that I know exactly when CC is an option instead of a posibility makes the turns more strategic, for me at least. In D:OS1 you could try to CC but it was often better to just deal max damage, using status effects as a bonus if they were not resisted. Here, you can plan around that.

The system might be flawed, and I definitely think more status effects should ignore armor beside slow and web, but I like it so far.

Last edited by Elidan; 06/10/17 01:46 PM.
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How can you find any challenge in a game where your plans never fail? How is it strategic when there are no decisions to be made, no possibilities to consider, no cost-benefit to be weighed when something may or may not work?

100% CC effectiveness is an abomination in a turn based strategy game. It removes the strategy completely and turns into something with which failure is no longer a possibility.

That people jump into discussions about the flaws of the armor system and comment on how more status effects should ignore armor leaves me completely bewildered. That would only make the situation worse!

Are there really so few people who actually enjoy challenging combat where you have deal with 'oh shit that didn't work' moments?

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Originally Posted by Igniz13

Your mage should check for targets with low magic armour and shoot them, or focus on setting up magical threats or summons or something.

It's hard to near impossible for one magic user to do everything you'd want from magic. They don't have the ap to heal and damage, cleanse and do area control. It'd have to be a lone wolf and it'd still be a stretch.

Conversely, it's fairly easy to have the one physical damage guy, amidst 3 casters, but then expectations for him would be low.


You're missing the point. Classes like "Battle mage" are strictly inferior to "having another 2h warrior" as a by-product of the armor system. The strongest party is 4x 2h poly warrior - maybe with some rangers mixed in. Seems wrong to me.

Last edited by dcgregorya; 06/10/17 02:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by Qiox
How can you find any challenge in a game where your plans never fail? How is it strategic when there are no decisions to be made, no possibilities to consider, no cost-benefit to be weighed when something may or may not work?

100% CC effectiveness is an abomination in a turn based strategy game. It removes the strategy completely and turns into something with which failure is no longer a possibility.

That people jump into discussions about the flaws of the armor system and comment on how more status effects should ignore armor leaves me completely bewildered. That would only make the situation worse!

Are there really so few people who actually enjoy challenging combat where you have deal with 'oh shit that didn't work' moments?


The issue is if you have 4x physical all of them with battering ram and battle stomp...CC is 100% effective. The "ideal" group is a physical cheese group that blows away the physical armor and chain CC's the enemies. That shouldn't be the "best" option in a game where you have 50+ skills/spells. It renders all of those things inferior because stacking warfare on 4 avatars makes the game trivially easy.

I don't think CC should ignore armor unless it's based on resistances. I do however think physical resistance needs to be added to make physical stacking not be so amazing.

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