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Originally Posted by Zherot
Originally Posted by Sotanaht
There IS a form of physical resist. It's called dodge chance.


You are trying too hard dude, please.

http://divinity.wikia.com/wiki/Defenses_(Divinity:_Original_Sin)

Yeah, except dodge chance in DivOS2 now works on most physical skills as well. Throwing in a physical resistance on top of that would be double dipping a bit.

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Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by Zherot

Making money is terrible but you will see, and Source you will agree too when you find out that skills that were normally used in the first game now require source, remember meteor shower or any of those powerful magics?, they now requiere source, enjoy.


Money making is ridiculously easy and Source is great exactly because of what you said.

In D:OS1 I was spamming those Meteor Showers like no tomorrow for how powerful it was.



You were never spamming anything dude please.

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Originally Posted by Sotanaht
Originally Posted by Zherot
Originally Posted by Sotanaht
There IS a form of physical resist. It's called dodge chance.


You are trying too hard dude, please.

http://divinity.wikia.com/wiki/Defenses_(Divinity:_Original_Sin)

Yeah, except dodge chance in DivOS2 now works on most physical skills as well. Throwing in a physical resistance on top of that would be double dipping a bit.


Kinda what magic dealers have to deal now with so it would be just fair, but no, they had to nerf the magic.

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Devo
You really need to chill.


My impression in a nutshell from the week of posts I've seen w/ his name attached.

I will play the voice of reason here in only one way. Compiling all the threads into a single topic may be of -some- value, but I stress some.

At this point, most of these things have been beaten to death, resurrected, and then beaten to death again. Why continue making thread after thread? So its been done, the points have been made. It will be interesting to see if he can just let it lie or not.

If I were a betting man... well, the safe money is with; I won't say, but you get the idea.

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Originally Posted by Darkwind
Originally Posted by Johnny_Devo
You really need to chill.


My impression in a nutshell from the week of posts I've seen w/ his name attached.

I will play the voice of reason here in only one way. Compiling all the threads into a single topic may be of -some- value, but I stress some.

At this point, most of these things have been beaten to death, resurrected, and then beaten to death again. Why continue making thread after thread? So its been done, the points have been made. It will be interesting to see if he can just let it lie or not.

If I were a betting man... well, the safe money is with; I won't say, but you get the idea.


I don't give up that easily, most people just accept mediocrity this days (fanboys), i won't, and i know this devs can do WAY better than this, they already did an amzing game (the original) and seriously this is just not their best.

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It's quite obvious that the discussion the TS wants is more of the "agree-or-shut-up" type. Isn't this a waste of time?

TS, if I don't like fundamental aspects of a game, or just certain design decisions out of total personal bias (for example one-slot armor, forced clothed basis chars, save restrictions and so), I don't play it. There are many games around, perhaps you find a better one.

Last edited by geala; 01/10/17 06:22 AM.
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Originally Posted by geala
It's quite obvious that the discussion the TS wants is more of the "agree-or-shut-up" type. Isn't this a waste of time?

TS, if I don't like fundamental aspects of a game, or just certain design decisions out of total personal bias (for example one-slot armor, forced clothed basis chars, save restrictions and so), I don't play it. There are many games around, perhaps you find a better one.


I rather point out how they royally screwed up the mechanics of this game so they can fix it.

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Luckmann's critique hit the nail on the head, personally.

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Dodge is nothing new, it was already in the first game, so you can't call it a replacement for physical resistant. It was also possible to dodge attacks like Whirlwind in the first game, if my memory is not failing.

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I think three main things make combat a bit tedious, at least for me :

Turn robin initiative BS + 4 ap starter + armors

- First you need to destroy armors. So every cc spells are useless, and you don't want to waste them.

- You only have 4 ap at the start of a combat. And no cc. So you will nearly always begin by the same combo (summoner is a lot of time if not everytime totem+incarnate, at least during early game). 4 ap is tedious really.

- So you can't use cc AND you can only do... let say 2 actions, if only you don't need to move. To finish this mess, you can't really combo with your team, because of the turn robin thing --> ok, you can combo with 1 toon, but come on, combo between teammates was fun. Now, if you let say put some oil on the ground, the enemy will be out of it when it's the turn of your pyro guy.

Oh, and no physical damages reduction is a bit silly. I mean we are talking about a game with crazy weapon scaling, and crazy spells like overpower, on top of that melee just deal pure damages. And poor spells...

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Magic resist dealing poor damage isn't really the armor system fault. Enrage used to make mages ridiculous especially with enemies using them on you. Warfare buffed staff user getting enraged by an ally and using enrage on a boss was the highest burst damage in the game in EA.

They nerfed Enrage and made Flay Skin which is hilarious because the darn "Make magic deal more damage" debuff can be blocked by magic armor.

Create a new skill that reduce enemy resist like old Enrage and you will see mage damage become ridiculous again. There's only a single skill in the entire game dedicated to this role and it's used by a single boss, not the player. (-50% all resist and -4 con, goes through immunity)

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If magic only gets viable in combination with a major debuff skill, the system is obviously heavily flawed. It would make the debuff just to another of those 'must haves' with any magic builts.

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The funny thing though is that they are already more than viable even without those debuffs as long as you don't try to shoot a fireball into a flaming witch.

The biggest issue mages really face is that they suck in Act 1 and suddenly spike into god hood at the start of Act 2 around level 10. Them sucking for 10 levels because they don't have Elemental Talent and Sov magical crit talent while having extremely weak level 1 to 5 scaling is what needs fixing more than the Armor system. The first impression you get from that level 1 to 5 will make you not want to test them out at all at level 10+ and just label them as useless although they no longer are. They can even go tanky and high crit because of how the itemization work and that's a massive advantage.

If they want more people to feel like mage are useful from the beginning, make the surface -AP cost a thing for every magical skill instead of making it a talent and fix the pisspoor level 1 to 5 damage scaling. I guarantee you once these fixes are in, the amount of "Mages are so weak" complaints will barely exist because the major source of complaints come from people trying mages out in Act 1 while all the defense come from people that actually try the mages out in Act 2 and 3.

Last edited by Ellezard; 02/10/17 01:01 AM.
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I'm just posting to report that I'm on my second playthrough, on Tactician this time, and still having quite a bit of fun with it. It's far from perfect, but it's still a very enjoyable game for me.

For hilarity's sake, I'm going to address each of these ten points in order.

1) Armor system is shallow, but a decent idea. Needs further development, and to not block non-control debuffs.
2) Attributes are straight-forward, but still serve their purpose well. Wits is lackluster, but other than that it's fine for me. Not particularly complex, but not bad.
3) Memory system is an aspect of the attribute system, so addressing it separately is simply padding the list. Still, I don't mind it at all. The idea of choosing whether to bolster how many skills you can memorize or your pure functionality isn't a bad idea.
4) The concept of an AP limit is fine, and I like the idea that you can't just store up two full turns of AP. I would like to see a fifth attribute that interacts with AP, similar to OS1.
5) Turn order doesn't bother me at all, in terms of mechanics. I think it could be better explained, and I think the Wits attribute is devalued by the system, but the concept of round-robin turns is fine. Even the edge cases I've seen are still fine; they mean that you might not always be best off killing a foe, but that's just another decision to make.
----besides, if the game is really as simple as Zherot claims, surely, the edge cases don't matter? Just kill everything with damage and move on smile
6) I ended my first run of the game with over 200,000 gold I didn't need. I was buying literally anything I needed. I had one thief, but gave up my thieving by the beginning of Act 3. I had no points invested in Lucky Charm. If there were more ways to make money, they might as well have the merchants tossing whatever we need in our bags as we walk by.
7) I agree with this completely. Dodging is a poor substitute for physical resistance, and causes physical damage to be superior in many circumstances.
8) Why should we be the only ones to know about our opponents? Yes, the enemy knowing about our weaknesses makes things more difficult, but before I cast any spell on my first run I knew exactly what resistances everyone had, what effects they were immune to.... I hate computer opponents that cheat, but I have the same ability so I don't see it as cheating.
9) Source as a mechanic is fine. The balance of Source spells is questionable, but there's nothing wrong with having a limited-resource ability. (I've seen comments about just corpse hunting, but that assumes you're willing to either ignore the story or consume spirits to power your spells; I was not willing to do either, so I restricted myself to source pools, fountains, and servants of the black ring whose spirits would survive anyways).
10) Are you upset about the talents or the number of points? I think number of points is fine, but the talents themselves are all over the place. Some are practically essential, others are completely worthless. If they were all worthwhile, the number of points would be sufficient to let you pick up those talents you wanted to define a character but not enough to get whatever you wanted. As it is, you just grab the few good talents for your build and move on.

I will not respond any further, so I leave this post here for the OP to insult. Since he seems to be personally offended at the idea of anyone actually enjoying this game, there should be plenty here for him to scream about smile

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3) In D:OS1 slots were defined by skill trees not attributes, I guess that is why he made separate point for them.
5) It is bullshit, because the game lies to you. It tells you, that you can influence your position in turn order with wits, but your initiative has only secondary influence, which does not get communicated for you.
7) Dodging is no substititute for physical resistance, because dodging is nothing new. Physical resistance just got totally left out.
8) Because they are inconsistent: They know, that you are Glasscannon and focus you, but they ignore that you have attack of opportunity. (even though that is sad to being addressed) and also not every enemy should be as 'smart' as a player. Does it really fit for a zombie or an animal to be that knowledgable?

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
If magic only gets viable in combination with a major debuff skill, the system is obviously heavily flawed. It would make the debuff just to another of those 'must haves' with any magic builts.


Don't even bother dude, i swear this guy ideas are terrible i don't even bother to comment on them at all, waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Ellezard
The funny thing though is that they are already more than viable even without those debuffs as long as you don't try to shoot a fireball into a flaming witch.

The biggest issue mages really face is that they suck in Act 1 and suddenly spike into god hood at the start of Act 2 around level 10.


That is some heavy Bullshit right there, i have 2 mages and both are past level 10 and they are more like TRASH tier.

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Originally Posted by darkwarrior42
I'm a fanboy, everything is fine.


Fixed.

Boring, next.

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Originally Posted by Zherot


Fixed.

Boring, next.


Calm down, there is no need to call everyone a fanboy just because they have a different view than you. I could easily call you a stick in the mud it may not be true but you're most definitely acting like it. So drop the "Agree with me or get out" and stop being such a narcissist.

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A string of posts carefully put together like a proper turn based fight. Wow.

I thing Zelot has his rights in his quest to point out the compiled list of problems as he see them. After all, for the price he paid he certainly has a right to expect perfection.
I have three license keys and that should give me a right to demand stuff as well.
Some of the “gripe points” I’d positively hate, so I think Zelot is wrong in his assessment of “everything wrong”.

“Fanboy killer”. Says it all really. Entitlement at it’s peak.


Great last words.

Oh no. Not again...
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