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Originally Posted by vivalafai
Implementing an armor system you don't like is not giving you a broken product.


this topic is about 1 problem
there are many others

Originally Posted by vivalafai

The greatest thing about this game is not the solo, campaign, it's the amazing replay value we get with the other modes.


My equation is REPLAYABILITY = 0
Even if i did not saw all Origins quest lines, i saw alot to know that i dont want to play again and try different builds or something.

Last edited by Roamer; 03/10/17 10:47 PM.

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Originally Posted by NeoAnubis


The argument is completely illogical for the point you are trying to convey. I already explained why.

Savescumming is not restricted to games with RNG. Not only that, but it is also player side issue, not a game issue.

Portraying it as a factor against the type of RNG being discussed is dishonest, to be light about it.

Note that this is not a critic to what you are pointing out about savescumming creating bias, that much is correct, but it doesn't support what you're trying to say it does, at all.

The core point is there is practically forced tradeoff between save frequency and statistical fidelity in a game with RNG. High save frequency is useful for players who are not that good at the game but also dislike experiencing the same contents repeatly, it's not ideal if it's hard to achieve without creating bias as a byproduct. So it's a design issue.

Save scumming is certainly possible in a deterministic game if it is information incomplete or reaction focused, but that's mostly irrelevant in this context.

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This is a terrible idea. You could have a billion magic armour, but because it's only 50% of your max magic armour. You suddenly have the same chance to be charmed as someone with 1/2 magic armour.

The whole point of armour is to shift the focus onto healing and targeting weak armour. This system means you dumb shit on the enemy and set it on fire and hope it works.

If you think rng is somehow the epitome of strategy, you're deeply mistaken. "Always bet on black" isn't something a game aspiring to have strategic combat should aim to focus on. Betting on rng isn't a good strategy it's a sign of gambling addiction.

The system is fine as is, it may need some number tweaks (and more aoe armour restore skills), but having a degrading chance to resist cc would be terrible.


gambling on some rng cc affect is not a deep strategic decision. It's just a sign of gambling addiction.
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Igniz13. you are completely wrong, read topic more carefully and calculate better
and dont post something like that again

P.S. with full armor everybody have 100% resist, 100000/100000 or 1/2, but if u have more then 2 dmg can u callculate chances for both ur exemples? smile You suddenly have the same chances? or not? smile

Last edited by Roamer; 04/10/17 12:32 AM.

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Originally Posted by Roamer

this is not ingame numbers - 1 and 99


These are ingame numbers, but they demonstrate a problem of the system: If an enemy has for example 200 magic armor and 800 physical armor it would have a cc resist chance of 80 % if the magic armor has been removed. The system works only if the armor values are roughly equal, because the attacker has to damage both armors if one of them has a much higher value. This increases only the length of the combat encounters.

Last edited by Wizard1200; 04/10/17 08:02 AM.
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Its not like the maths you use are particularly clear, but if you have 50% of your armour, you have the same chance to be affected by cc no matter the values. It's a terrible system because the game is built around the amounts mattering. Loosing a portion of your armour should not make you vulnerable when cc is everywhere and can be applied just by taking a step.


gambling on some rng cc affect is not a deep strategic decision. It's just a sign of gambling addiction.
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Originally Posted by Wizard1200
Originally Posted by Roamer

this is not ingame numbers - 1 and 99


These are ingame numbers, but they demonstrate a problem of the system: If an enemy has for example 200 magic armor and 800 physical armor it would have a cc resist chance of 80 % if the magic armor has been removed. The system works only if the armor values are roughly equal, because the attacker has to damage both armors if one of them has a much higher value. This increases only the length of the combat encounters.


I already answered that kind of questions
that is why i said - read forum

Mages have alot of physical dmg spells
Even with 80% resist its good to fight vs such enemy
etc
etc
read forum

Last edited by Roamer; 04/10/17 10:19 AM.

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Originally Posted by Igniz13
Loosing a portion of your armour should not make you vulnerable when cc is everywhere and can be applied just by taking a step.


Really? i will broke ur shoulders, helmet and some other parts of ur armor - and u think u still immune cos u have ur metal pants left?

Btw - taking a step on ice even with full armors is RNG. or Not?

Suggested system will help enemies even more then players - cos players have no problems in eazymod fights. Players dont even need to CC enemies in mid game+(same as in DoS1: 20% of the game is a bit chellenging and 80% - easy mod)

Last edited by Roamer; 04/10/17 10:39 AM.

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Those people who don't want RNG back must be those who cry at RNG game like Xcom. (lol).
Finite encounter, finite enemy. Think about it a little.

W/o RNG this game will be seen as failure few months from now when people already finished the story and onward for a combat replay.

RNG element is what make game like D:OS feel alive (though i admit i got bored half way with OS EE because my char can miss that CC but still deal enough damage (with that skill) to guarantee the waste - in other word, overpowered so fast that you don't really care about the mild percentage to CC).

OS2 may as well remove the HP bar because w/o armor you are as good as dead (like how glass cannon is a shit talent when every enemy has blink like ability so you can't never escape them).

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Armour is an abstract, it's not specifically something being broken, if your hazmat suit has a hole in it, it's not going guy stop any air born disease until util patch it, but until it gets that hole, it's not going to strangely decay just because you're standing in noxious fumes.

Slipping on ice is rng, but it's not dependable and only affects people moving through it. It also doesn't care if you have no armour, it's one ofa few cc affects that works despite your armour values. What you can't do is force people to be affected by it, it's not the same as having an aoe that knocks down.

I don't really care what you think about the difficulty of the combat, because all your suggestion does is make it even dumber. It's not hard to understand, with your system you just dump on the enemy and luck factors more into things than before. That's not a good thing.

The enemy has to win once to get a game over, you have to go through hundreds of fights. If fights devolve into, who gets lucky with rng, then you're going to lose more than not, and any time you win is going to be about luck rather than strategy.

Xcom is a completely different game built around improving odds, which is it's own problem with games like darkest dungeon where it's more about gaming the game than just playing it.


gambling on some rng cc affect is not a deep strategic decision. It's just a sign of gambling addiction.
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There is no luck that kill you outright in this game.
Know about a thing called GLOWING IDOL OF REBITH? yeah right, that thing is a self-rez full health and easy to make. Don't speak crap about lucky or not. Real tactic involve minimize the odd against you, a.k.a things you cannot accounted for; not completely remove it then call "oh no, rng is dumb and should not ever been in a game".

Anyone can play a static game, even a toddler.

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Originally Posted by Igniz13
Armour is an abstract


Why do we need an abstract gray and blue bars if in medieval-like virtual worlds players want to feel more medieval-like armors and its not hard to create that feeling

And an Abstract arrows w/o RNG accuracy should be like this

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Roamer; 04/10/17 02:56 PM.

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No, it's the difference between wanting to use an axe that has a 50% chance of doing 100 damage and a sword that has a 100% chance chance of 50 damage, then being asked to hit a guy with 75 health.

If you're that guy with 75 health, you'd rather face the guy with the sword, especially if you might get healed and survive. If you get one shotted by the axe, you've got shit all for counter measures, healing doesn't matter, you're just waiting to see if you get 1 shotted.

You might prefer using the axe, but you'd hate to face him and there'd be no great strategy behind the axe, it'd just be the axe. That's why systems dictated by rng are bad. Even if you can reduce the odds of getting hit by 20%, it's not a great strategy on either end.

Death, healing and life are what the game is built around. Ressurection is a part of the game. The game is built around life bar management. It's not a difficult concept


gambling on some rng cc affect is not a deep strategic decision. It's just a sign of gambling addiction.
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50%-100 dmg and 100%-50 dmg...
Devs in a games with RNG will never add an enemy with 75 hp - it would be like 750 hp

Hypotetical exemples that never happens in good games is not something we should talk about

And why u are not asking to remove all RNGs?
(dmg, dodge, crit, liquid appearence, unpredictible terrain, ice stepping, move cost accidently stepping on oil, random autoTP, aviability of TP spots (on highground too), etc)

Seems like u love 13 ingame spells for relocating urself in combat smile almost 100% chance in any time to be where u want to be - tactic! smile


Last edited by Roamer; 04/10/17 04:00 PM.

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No, it's the difference between wanting to use an axe that has a 50% chance of doing 100 damage and a sword that has a 100% chance chance of 50 damage, then being asked to hit a guy with 75 health.


That is still how the game works. All weapons have a max and min damage, and even more there is always a chance of crit. So not sure, what you are trying to prove with that argument.

Also it not RNG, it is chances. It is part of the tactical gameplay to change the battlefield situation, so that the odds are in your favor, and not in your enemies. If there is no risk, there is also no tension, making fights just long lasting and boring, easily calculatable.

Anyhow D:OS2 is about armor management, not about life management. It is only life management if you failed with armor management. Because if your armors are gone, you are getting CCed.

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If you want your combat to carry danger and tension, it needs to have risk. There is no risk in divinity 2. I hit a guy with my arrow with 100% hit rate, then shoot with a knockdown arrow with a 100% knockdown rate. Taking the RNG and risk out of battles changes them from fights into puzzles, or worse, a checklist. The battlefield is supposed to be unpredictable to some extent, plans should succeed, or fail. To see my house of cards fall only to have my backup plan save me, THAT, is satisfying combat.

Last edited by HUcast; 04/10/17 07:12 PM.
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Good morning everyone who still waiting for Devs decisions smile


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Originally Posted by Roamer
50%-100 dmg and 100%-50 dmg...
Devs in a games with RNG will never add an enemy with 75 hp - it would be like 750 hp

Hypotetical exemples that never happens in good games is not something we should talk about

And why u are not asking to remove all RNGs?
(dmg, dodge, crit, liquid appearence, unpredictible terrain, ice stepping, move cost accidently stepping on oil, random autoTP, aviability of TP spots (on highground too), etc)

Seems like u love 13 ingame spells for relocating urself in combat smile almost 100% chance in any time to be where u want to be - tactic! smile



It's about consistency vs gambling, the current system gives a clear flow of battle. Your idea lets things devolve into just dumping shit and praying.

The reason I don't care about some rng is because it's minimally impactful and I can still control it. I'm not walking on a surface and randomly being stunned or poisoned or burnt. I can take the risk if I want to walk on ice, I can precisely walk around oil or take the risk and walk through it.

With your system, all semblance of strategy goes out the window. Give a better tactic than dump shit on people under your system. The game would need to be drastically reworked so that status affects aren't 100% successful inherently.

Rng works in other games because they're carefully built around it being a factor. Dos isn't, Dos2 is built around mitigation and counter play. RNG games also suffer from accuracy being the most important stat to build up, it's not a good system for a strategy game as everyone will want to aim for 100% hit rates anyway

@hucast when you've got no armour, it's pretty fucking tense

Last edited by Igniz13; 05/10/17 01:55 PM.

gambling on some rng cc affect is not a deep strategic decision. It's just a sign of gambling addiction.
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Originally Posted by Igniz13

Your idea lets things devolve into just dumping shit and praying.

Maybe for u its a shit and praying. For me its more interesting and challenging battles. More tactical decisions. More cross-class cooperations. More logical armor, etc
Originally Posted by Igniz13

The reason I don't care about some rng is because it's minimally impactful and I can still control it.

U could still control CC RNG too, almost 0 and 100% as it was if u have good party builds. But u are to lazy to use ur brain.
Originally Posted by Igniz13

With your system, all semblance of strategy goes out the window. Give a better tactic than dump shit on people under your system. The game would need to be drastically reworked so that status affects aren't 100% successful inherently.

If u think i should give u something better - u wrong. If u think RNG is less tactical - u wrong. If u cant think tacticaly - not my problem. As not my problem how many reworks broken product needs (and its not only about armor system).
Originally Posted by Igniz13

Rng works in other games because they're carefully built around it being a factor. Dos isn't, Dos2 is built around mitigation and counter play. RNG games also suffer from accuracy being the most important stat to build up, it's not a good system for a strategy game as everyone will want to aim for 100% hit rates anyway

i have no words. Seems like u playing with tons of troubles on classic mode.
But u right in one thing - "carefully built" - i want that in DOS too smile


Last edited by Roamer; 05/10/17 02:38 PM.

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Give an example of tactics you get from your system. One that's better than dumping on the enemy. One that isn't dumping on the enemy. One that's facilitated by your system.


gambling on some rng cc affect is not a deep strategic decision. It's just a sign of gambling addiction.
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