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This should have been at release, linked civil skills for example barter should effect all party members it's so annoying to replace all items to one char for just selling it's a oversight from the Devs.


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It's not an oversight, it's there to accommodate multiplayer. The game is specifically designed to allow players to cooperate *or* work against each other. You're roleplaying as an individual character, not the entire party.

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I'm actually working on a mod for this. It's nearly complete, but I'm working on making it compatible with other mods and bug testing it, so it's taken a little bit longer to finally release.

Barter isn't featured in the screenshots here, but the way I have it working currently is the vendor will recognize your party's highest barter skill as the barter skill for each character.

Screenshots:
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Arsene Lupin
It's not an oversight, it's there to accommodate multiplayer. The game is specifically designed to allow players to cooperate *or* work against each other. You're roleplaying as an individual character, not the entire party.

Checkbox in the menu solves that problem. Who wants - uses it, who wants it in MP - don't

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Originally Posted by Arsene Lupin
It's not an oversight, it's there to accommodate multiplayer. The game is specifically designed to allow players to cooperate *or* work against each other. You're roleplaying as an individual character, not the entire party.


Make civil abilities only shared between linked chars. Problem solved. Many people play this game in SP. Why should they suffer just because MP is here? Why should players in MP suffer if they control 2 chars?

I think persuation and pet pal should be shared too. All that individual civil abilities add is tedious micromanagem

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Originally Posted by LaughingLeader
I'm actually working on a mod for this. It's nearly complete, but I'm working on making it compatible with other mods and bug testing it, so it's taken a little bit longer to finally release.

Barter isn't featured in the screenshots here, but the way I have it working currently is the vendor will recognize your party's highest barter skill as the barter skill for each character.

Screenshots:
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]


I like your mod and would use it when released.
but that's again more skills buttons on already massive filled skillbar.

one ask him self why the dev's not include a extra skillbar to the single skill bar.

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Originally Posted by Wouter445
I like your mod and would use it when released.
but that's again more skills buttons on already massive filled skillbar.
one ask him self why the dev's not include a extra skillbar to the single skill bar.

Small tip - use can use UBBCode to hide things inside a collapsible box - Good way to hide a large quote, while still letting people see what you've quoted if they want.

Spoiler code:
Code
[spoiler]Hide me![/spoiler]

My toggle skills are made with ease-of-use in mind. For instance, once you toggle on the Lucky Charm Aura, it will turn back on when appropriate (it's disabled in combat, but will re-enable itself after combat ends). For the Sneak Aura, after you've enabled it from stealth, it will turn back on after going in and out of stealth.

Pep Talk doesn't really have automated behavior, because it's meant to bail a friend out of trouble when they get pulled into a persuasion check, so it's a skill you'll rarely use often.

Last edited by LaughingLeader; 06/10/17 02:58 PM. Reason: Typo fix
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I'll use it for sure, having one character for lucky charm and sometimes picking up stuff with another makes the moment of "damn, maybe this chest/crate/sack, had an unique/epic/legendary in it".

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Originally Posted by Alanta
Originally Posted by Arsene Lupin
It's not an oversight, it's there to accommodate multiplayer. The game is specifically designed to allow players to cooperate *or* work against each other. You're roleplaying as an individual character, not the entire party.


Make civil abilities only shared between linked chars. Problem solved. Many people play this game in SP. Why should they suffer just because MP is here? Why should players in MP suffer if they control 2 chars?

I think persuation and pet pal should be shared too. All that individual civil abilities add is tedious micromanagem


Hyperbole much? It takes exactly one extra mouse click to change characters. That is not suffering, nor is it tedious micromanagement. And if you think it is, CRPGs are probably not the genre for you.

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It kinda is tho.

My "lucky charm" character is often pulled into dialog with a NPC while snooping around barrels and chests.
Unfortunatly, he's not the Persuasion character. And the easy "one click switch" turns into a tedious "reload last save". biggrin

Last edited by Dopelgingembre; 06/10/17 04:49 PM. Reason: npc, not pnj. My bad.

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yeah, that's my main issue with persuasion. it's really silly if it can just be rendered irrelevant by a npc just happening to notice the wrong character first

if i know a persuasion check i want to pass is coming up i might run my persuasion character first or even unchain him and initiate the dialogue first, but that's a lot of unnecessary stuff, and on top of that it might put the wrong character in the center of combat where they'll be vulnerable

persuasion also punishes you by giving you less exp, which makes no sense

Last edited by miaasma; 06/10/17 04:04 PM.
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Originally Posted by Arsene Lupin
Originally Posted by Alanta
Originally Posted by Arsene Lupin
It's not an oversight, it's there to accommodate multiplayer. The game is specifically designed to allow players to cooperate *or* work against each other. You're roleplaying as an individual character, not the entire party.


Make civil abilities only shared between linked chars. Problem solved. Many people play this game in SP. Why should they suffer just because MP is here? Why should players in MP suffer if they control 2 chars?

I think persuation and pet pal should be shared too. All that individual civil abilities add is tedious micromanagem


Hyperbole much? It takes exactly one extra mouse click to change characters. That is not suffering, nor is it tedious micromanagement. And if you think it is, CRPGs are probably not the genre for you.


Switch to lucky charm character to loot everything. Send what he got to barter character. Switch to persuation character to do the talking. Oh, and thievery character should also send stuff to barter character. Right, one click.

Oh, of course, tedious micromanagement is essential for CRPGs. And here I thought it's about story. Or role-playing. Or fun combat. Or exploration. But of course inventory management is the core element, how stupid I was to think otherwise!

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In such games is normally standard to be able to sell from every character at the same time. But thanks to making competative possible coop-gameplay got even worse instead of better.

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
In such games is normally standard to be able to sell from every character at the same time. But thanks to making competative possible coop-gameplay got even worse instead of better.
That is a silly thing to say.

If everyone shares bartering, loremaster, persuasion, thievery etc then what is the point in them at all?

Why not use a mod that adds pet-pal to everyone and adds +5 to every civil skill. While you are at it why not give everyone 5000GP and +10 to main stats and everything else.

You may as well not bother and have one stat (everything) and just upgrade that every level up (assuming you remembered). It could cover FIN/INT/CON/STR, all skills and everything else.

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Now you are throwing apples and pears and bananas all in one basket, very great argument.

Honestly, social skills are so poorly implemented, you could really argue, why there are even there.

One guy has to have bartering and probably persuasion aswell, because they are the only social skills with synergy. But often the guy with persuasion won't even be the guy, who will be the one with the persuasion challenge, because the NPC adressed somebody else and the persuader can't join in. So either it is wasted or you have to reload.

Thievery and Lucky Charme would be synergetic aswell, but you don't get that many points to up both fast enough, so you will have to split both on two guys. Mean one guy will have to lockpick the chest and a second guy needs to loot the chest, before he can than sent the stuff most likely to the third guy the trader, or perhaps he first has to send it to fourth guy with loremaster, who can identify it. So for a single player it is a lot of tiresome micromanagement and for coop it does hardly enrich either. Because one guy will all do the trading and talking while the others can't do much during that time, because cooperative talking is hardly a thing anymore. Same goes for the time while the looter is looting. Which also means only the looter will have the real feeling for exploring and treasure finding.

Regarding Loremaster, it is also an annoyance, that you can only loremaster if it is the turn of the loremaster character, even if the loremaster character is one of yours. So you kind of force the loremaster guy to be the one with the highest initiative.

Coming back to the trader: Having to send hundreds of items to the trader so he can trade them is even more tedious than reparing items was. Sure, if you are playing competatively, it is not want you want. But if you play cooperatively or alone, you really would like to be able to either have option shared inventory for trading or to be able to change between characters during trading, so they can add their stuff for the sale directly. Shared inventory seem to work for crafting anyway...


Regarding attributes: autoleveling would be probably as meaningful as everything else, as bland as the attributes are at current state.

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Honestly, social skills are so poorly implemented,you could really argue, why there are even there.
I'm certainly not sure why they are there - history perhaps or this tabletop thing you all keep banging on about. I'm not sure why CON or WIT is there for either.

Originally Posted by Kalrakh
One guy has to have bartering and probably persuasion aswell, because they are the only social skills with synergy.
I don't know what the word synergy means in this context (or any other context tbh).

Originally Posted by Kalrakh
But often the guy with persuasion won't even be the guy, who will be the one with the persuasion challenge, because the NPC adressed somebody else and the persuader can't join in. So either it is wasted or you have to reload.
Actually this is an issue. I will hide it in the middle so no-one notices I agree.

Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Thievery and Lucky Charme would be synergetic aswell, but you don't get that many points to up both fast enough, so you will have to split both on two guys. Mean one guy will have to lockpick the chest and a second guy needs to loot the chest, before he can than sent the stuff most likely to the third guy the trader, or perhaps he first has to send it to fourth guy with loremaster, who can identify it. So for a single player it is a lot of tiresome micromanagement and for coop it does hardly enrich either. Because one guy will all do the trading and talking while the others can't do much during that time, because cooperative talking is hardly a thing anymore. Same goes for the time while the looter is looting. Which also means only the looter will have the real feeling for exploring and treasure finding.
OK, perhaps. I never had a problem with money in this game so it is hard to give a good answer.

Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Regarding Loremaster, it is also an annoyance, that you can only loremaster if it is the turn of the loremaster character, even if the loremaster character is one of yours. So you kind of force the loremaster guy to be the one with the highest initiative.
Bollocks. Loremaster is shared. EDIT: Isn't it?

Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Coming back to the trader: Having to send hundreds of items to the trader so he can trade them is even more tedious than reparing items was. Sure, if you are playing competatively, it is not want you want. But if you play cooperatively or alone, you really would like to be able to either have option shared inventory for trading or to be able to change between characters during trading, so they can add their stuff for the sale directly. .
If you mean the inventory management is shit then I agree. It is even worse than DOS EE.

You forgot to mention that you can't even hide the shit you just sold them or sort it by date, weight or anything else.

Whoever made DOS2 inventory management even worse than DOS EE (which was terrible) should be offered a beer and shown the door.

Last edited by lx07; 06/10/17 11:05 PM. Reason: Unsure about my point...
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@OP: Did you account for mutual Persausion when someone is bartering since that affects reputation and, therefore, item prices?

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Originally Posted by lx07
I'm certainly not sure why they are there - history perhaps or this tabletop thing you all keep banging on about. I'm not sure why CON or WIT is there for either.


Probably for the P&P-RPG feeling, but because how talking, shopping & inventory management work, they are more bothersome than enlarging the experience. In a Pen & Paper session the guy with most Charme could always show up and take the lead in conversation or at least you could delay the talk.


Originally Posted by lx07
I don't know what the word synergy means in this context (or any other context tbh).


Synergy means, that two things are working hand in hand. Like Endarire said, if you have barter and persuasion the prices will be cheaper than with only barter. If you had thievery, lucky find and loremaster you could lockpick a chest, loot it and identify the findings all at once, but good luck with getting enough points for that with out having to change tons of rings and other stuff all the time.


Originally Posted by lx07
Bollocks. Loremaster is shared. EDIT: Isn't it?


As far as I remember in the first it wasn't. But as I tested now, in the second it seems to be shared. At least if you play all characters alone. Can't test if it works in coop aswell like that. Never tested. I was used to it not being shared like all social skills.


Originally Posted by lx07
If you mean the inventory management is shit then I agree. It is even worse than DOS EE.

You forgot to mention that you can't even hide the shit you just sold them or sort it by date, weight or anything else.

Whoever made DOS2 inventory management even worse than DOS EE (which was terrible) should be offered a beer and shown the door.


It's one of my core issues with the second game. They put in a lot new stuff, with hardly bothering about some of the core flaws of the first game or even making them worse.

At least with the last patch they made it a bit better.

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Originally Posted by Wouter445
This should have been at release, linked civil skills for example barter should effect all party members it's so annoying to replace all items to one char for just selling it's a oversight from the Devs.



Besides the multiplayer, I actually like how the individual civil skills give each character more individuality. For example knowing that your rogue has high thief so he's the one who needs to pickpocket and open chests is pretty cool. As for bartering, I like that you need to select your bartering character to get the discount, it would be nice however if you could switch between characters within the trade menu while selecting items to sell. So then you could select everything you wanna sell, and then you'd just have to remember to select your bartering character to close the deal.

I like how they made loremaster share though.


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