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Dear Larian Developers (eventually?) reading this forum,
I think we need to talk about your take on itemization, loot, equipment.

I won't mince words; I think in its current state it's a disaster.
Here's a quick recap on why:
http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=624036#Post624036

The game is great, sure, but that's despise of your take on equipment, rather than because of it.

Now, what's genuinely perplexing to me is that this was already broadly pointed as one of the major flaws (if not THE major one) in the previous game.
Still, it's clear at this point that you aren't doing this by accident; you are purposefully sticking to your guns here and deliberately committing to a solution a lot of people didn't like the first time.

I could argue for pages on why that's a terrible choice.
Hell, I already did it in the past, the last time barely few days ago, as the link above shows.

But at this point this feels like beating a dead horse, and I don't think bringing this topic over and over among users (both the defending and opposing front) would be of any use.
SO, what I'd love to, instead, is listening directly from the "word of god" as TV Tropes would say.

TL;DR - Please, developers, find few minutes to chime in and explain to me (us?) why you are doing things this way.

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The item sistem is a stereotype from games like Diablo. I do get one shot often as well due to the fact that I can't get my hands on items that last more than 2 levels.

Here is the thing I gotta ask every player, why invent the wheel when it has already been invented? Same for item systems in game.

Last edited by Draco359; 08/10/17 02:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by Draco359
The item sistem is a stereotype from games like Diablo.

I know. Doesn't change the fact I can't stand it.
It just doesn't match with this sort of game.

Still hoping for some commentary from the devs. While I will probably disagree anyway it would be interesting to learn what makes this solution (randomization) so appealing to them.

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I'm pretty sure Itemization is in this game worse than in a game like Diablo. I can't remember getting items with unfitting stats on them in Diablo.

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Itemization is by far the weakest part of the game, the actual system makes what could be an enjoyable part of the game into a chore.
Why should I even bother in reading the description for this unique item I've found while exploring when I know that by the time I level up it's going to become trash?
Wow Braccus Rex must have been some powerful sourcerer yet his spear isn't better than a lvl7 green item

Last edited by stronzolo; 09/10/17 10:47 AM.
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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
I'm pretty sure Itemization is in this game worse than in a game like Diablo. I can't remember getting items with unfitting stats on them in Diablo.

What?
Don't you enjoy your "+2 Single-hand" on a bow?

But yeah, that's part of the problem as well.

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Another issue is that unlike Diablo, you can't go leaving town to kill all the respawned monsters to get new drops if the old ones sucked.

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Originally Posted by Kalrakh
I'm pretty sure Itemization is in this game worse than in a game like Diablo. I can't remember getting items with unfitting stats on them in Diablo.


Both Diablo and Diablo 2 had this all of the time. It was actually one of the primary reasons trading was such a huge thing in Diablo 2 (don't recall if you could even trade in the first game). Diablo 3 initially had "junk" gear, with stats that still had some effect for your character, but the game was set up at launch to try to get you to pay real money on the auction house to get items that would let you progress.

They abolished that and changed the game to offer a "smart loot" system where items that dropped for your character were probably 95% of the time suited for your character. You could have random items for other classes drop that you couldn't use, but this was rare and mostly intended for you to use on a potentially new character later.

The loot system in this game is technically closer to the first Diablo, worse than Diablo 2 and grossly inferior to the current Diablo 3.

Last edited by Sanctuary; 09/10/17 01:57 PM.
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I'm not talking about gear that was not for your character, but about gear that has stats, that does not fit at all their item type. If you played as a group, you could always give other class stuff to your teammate.

But honestly I don't remember that well. Because you could always farm for more, bad gear had less of an impact anyway.

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I guess there were times when I found gear to be annoying... but not really. I went through the whole game always upgrading my gear by buying new sets every few levels, never had an issue really. I mostly bought my gear from vendors though rather than finding it, so there's that. Always guaranteed to find some kind of upgrade by checking my commonly used vendors.

I suppose that is kind of sad since the drops were more or less pointless at times. What matters most in this game is your build and opening combos, honestly. And having high wits.

It would be nice if you could reroll item stats or modify them somehow. Also crafting is utterly useless, pretty much never used it besides for runes and skillbooks. Would have been great to be able to craft nicer gear, but I don't mind that crafting isn't a big part of it. Also what's up with not being able to see gear stats by hovering over the recipe item when crafting? It just feels like filler content not really flushed out or necessary in the game

Last edited by omegazen; 09/10/17 09:49 PM.
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I agree with this post. The game would be better if there was a larger ratio of 'fixed gear' to 'randomly generated' gear because then your gear progression could be charted out. Right now you might race to the houndsman crossbow or whatever but after Act 1 it becomes meaningless. Having gear scale with your level would honestly just feel better. Having so much random in a game where you can't farm anything feels bad sometimes.

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Swen already said why in one of the videos. He thinks its more interesting to play a game and get "different stuff" rather then "always" get the same stuff.

So its a weird binary choice for him, although those two binary options dont need to be like that.
And despite the fact things dont really work that way which is further worsened by number bloat and nonsensical randomization of equipment stats.

Its not like they are really trying to make the best game possible. They made the game that will sell a lot and they succeeded. With mechanics for the... masses?
(nobody knows what that even means)

You want something better, hope someone makes a mod.
Instead of fantasizing how one of them will come over and tell you you are right and they were wrong.

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While I do think hand-placed loot is vastly superior, I wouldn't mind random loot nearly as much as I do now if items we get lasted at least 4 levels and modifiers weren't useless 90% of the time. I get it, not all gear has to be optimal for my build. But when 90% of the random loot I find is useless it's a bit too much. And if I do manage to find something useful I'll have to replace it after 3 fights anyway.

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Some of these problems would easily be mitigated if they had bothered to actually add a robust crafting system as seen in EE. It didn't have nearly the same problem as what this game does, because even when the majority of the dropped loot was garbage (even then, it seemed to have uniques that lasted a little longer), you could essentially make whatever you needed. You don't have that option at all here other than making a generic, non stat chest and a generic, non stat weapon.

What the hell happened?

Last edited by Sanctuary; 09/10/17 10:04 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Draco359
The item sistem is a stereotype from games like Diablo.

I know. Doesn't change the fact I can't stand it.
It just doesn't match with this sort of game.

Still hoping for some commentary from the devs. While I will probably disagree anyway it would be interesting to learn what makes this solution (randomization) so appealing to them.


I think you need to acknowledge that this is a pet peeve of yours. You may not like randomisation, but other people do, and there is nothing objectively wrong with it.

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randomisation would be a lot more acceptable if:
-this wasn't a game where everything is handplaced, form consumables to enemies
-There was a way to farm items in order to mitigate the bad drops (but I wouldn't play a game like this if I wanted to farm my gear)
-items didn't need to be replaced after one or two level up in order to keep up with the stats bloat
-items didn't have nonsensical stats (str gear adding points to huntsman or sneaking ec..)

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Originally Posted by Mermaid
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Draco359
The item sistem is a stereotype from games like Diablo.

I know. Doesn't change the fact I can't stand it.
It just doesn't match with this sort of game.

Still hoping for some commentary from the devs. While I will probably disagree anyway it would be interesting to learn what makes this solution (randomization) so appealing to them.


I think you need to acknowledge that this is a pet peeve of yours. You may not like randomisation, but other people do, and there is nothing objectively wrong with it.


I also hate the randomization of items in this game.In act 1 it wasn't all that bad,but man in act 2 it is a nightmare - I can barely stand the game at this point and I have 2 more acts to go. I would rather the game had fewer random items and more skill points.

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Originally Posted by Mermaid
I think you need to acknowledge that this is a pet peeve of yours. You may not like randomisation, but other people do, and there is nothing objectively wrong with it.

Yeah, it is.
Not one born by mere feelings, though.
It's a dislike caused mostly by my love for good design.

I have yet to hear a single good argument in favor of randomized itemization in any RPG.
The go-to flagship argument seems to be "When everything is random you are constantly surprised", which is countered by the sad reality of it: "when every item is randomized and easily disposable, every single find feels equally generic and often worthless".

In Baldur's Gate 2 you could find a +3 talking longsword near the tavern in Amn. I still remember that item, I still remember how you could go half of the game before having some NET upgrade over it (rather than few comparably good alternate options). I didn't play BG2 in the last four years.

It was useful, it was memorable, it was funny. It was also something I could plan a future playthrough around. "Hey, I know I have *that* specific item there, I'll give it to Character X and for Character Y I'll get that other weapon instead".

In this game I couldn't tell you a single item I'm equipping now on my party, in my current campaign, without loading my game and checking.
I'm also confident it wouldn't matter even if I did, because one level from now I'll have to replace it, if the RNG will allow it.

Last edited by Tuco; 10/10/17 12:01 AM.
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I'm in strong agreement with you Tuco. I can still remember several items from BG2 because they were powerful and meaningful, many with unique scripts found nowhere else in the game. I really really really wish they had gone that route with this game as well and left leveling off of items entirely.

Leveling items makes sense in an MMO with 100 levels but it really doesn't make any sense when trying to create a world with cohesion. Why is a white, normal guard sword in Arx like 1000x better than anything Braccus had? It's nonsense.

Bring the scaling WAAAAY down for vitality and then remove scaling from weapons and actually hand place the most powerful things so that they feel like true rewards for certain actions. Then you can keep randomized items for low-mid tier gear to fill in slots for your party that don't have uniques.

Finding unique, cool items that change a character is fun. Having to replace 40 items every 3-5 fights is not fun.

Last edited by Cronstintein; 10/10/17 12:58 AM.
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I think someone had the interesting suggestion to have the Armor and Damage values of Unique items scale with player level. I think that's an interesting idea.

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