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Hate to say it, but I feel like OS 2 rpg system went in the wrong direction. This is not about armor, I'm not a huge fan of hit rng myself, although I don't think armor was the best solution to get rid of it. There are enough armor threads anyway. However, I feel like a number of other things also got redesigned pretty poorly:

-Skills and memory. This feels like a pretty big step back to me. Right now, beyond 5 points invested (and usually a lot less in practice since you get a ton from gear), skills are just another stat to bloat your damage values for the most part. Imo the OS1 approach where skills governed how many abilities of each tier you can use was a lot more elegant and better in every way. Character building feels a lot less strategic.

-Stat viability and hybrids. Stat system for OS1 was imo also a lot better. While one of my gripes with OS1 system would be the viability of hybrids, they are even less viable now (outside of using some abilities that just scale with level). You just pump your main damage stat, memory for the skills you want to use and wits for ini/crit with what's left. Using skills that scale with the stat you're not maxing is a no go. Since offensive ratings are no more, stats also add damage now, which is another reason for damage values bloat. In OS1 most stats would also give at least something to everyone (not saying it was great), while in OS2 finesse does nothing for strength character.

-Stat bloat and shopping. Seriously, I feel like I'm playing a shopping simulator. Because of ridiculous stat bloat you need to update gear at least every other level to keep up, which results in ridiculous runs across current location vendors in search of new items. It gets old pretty fast.

Last edited by MadDemiurg; 08/10/17 02:43 PM.
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I'm not sure if it was *univocally* better, but I also feel like there were things it did better than this sequel.

For instance, I spent the last two weeks going back and forth about the new armor system, and while I've grown used to it and I know how to "move around it", I finally decided I don't like it that much.

I can see what they were aiming for in terms of crowd controls and disables, but I think there were better ways around it. It's also a system that makes a certain amount of tools I loved to use in the first (grenades, elemental arrows, etc) borderline useless at times.
And I really don't like the way it's an "all or nothing" thing, where armor makes you immune to everything and then suddenly once it's gone there's not difference between a warrior in plate and a caster in a robe.

The new system also punishes harshly mixing physical damage and magic. Overspecialization is greatly rewarded.

Last edited by Tuco; 08/10/17 02:54 PM.
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Don't get me wrong, not saying OS1 was perfect, but I liked it more overall.

Armor is actually the one thing I have mixed opinion on. On one hand, it indeed greatly rewards you focusing 1 target with a singe damage type. On the other hand, optimized characters stunlocking everything forever was bit ridiculous in OS1 and I don't like rng for hit mechanic in general, it's too binary. I don't like the new armor system but I think CC is one of the things OS1 did pretty poorly too.

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I don't know why scaling curve in DOS2 works like this. A level 18 character has 2 times of life/damage than a level 16, seriously?

There is no need to nerf exp gain if stats are not that bloated. The power curve in the first game works well. Why waste time reworking it when there is no outstanding issue?

Last edited by sehnsucht; 08/10/17 04:09 PM.
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Just the fact, that you seem to have only 3 points into a skill to use even the highest tiers of skills, shows are lowly this game got created.

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Something I've certainly noticed when it comes to skills is how bloated Geomancy and Hydrosophist are in terms of utility in comparison to every other skill. Both improve damage with earth/poison/water AND improve physical/magical armour recovery, and Hydro improves healing across the board.

Meanwhile, every other skill like Pyrokinetic or Aerothurge is just "5% extra damage a level" with not even an increase in something like your resistances. It feels really lame pumping those stats up.

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Originally Posted by MadDemiurg
-Stat bloat and shopping. Seriously, I feel like I'm playing a shopping simulator. Because of ridiculous stat bloat you need to update gear at least every other level to keep up, which results in ridiculous runs across current location vendors in search of new items. It gets old pretty fast.


You really do not need to do this and this really is not an issue. Stat inflation only affects armour, not skills/stats. The only item that matters somewhat is the weapon for a physical damage dealer. The rest is almost arbitrary. Another 500 Magical Armour is just that. So long as you are not being chain stunned armour values are completely arbitrary. On each of my three playthroughs I have finished the game (even on Tactician) with sub level 10 items simply because I preferred the +1 Warfare over an extra 300 physical and 300 magical armour. The only thing you need to shop for is weapon and this is the sole reason for why trading is even needed in the game.

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[quote] Something I've certainly noticed when it comes to skills is how bloated Geomancy and Hydrosophist are in terms of utility in comparison to every other skill. Both improve damage with earth/poison/water AND improve physical/magical armour recovery, and Hydro improves healing across the board.

Meanwhile, every other skill like Pyrokinetic or Aerothurge is just "5% extra damage a level" with not even an increase in something like your resistances. It feels really lame pumping those stats up. [/quote]

To be fair Geomancy and Hydro are mostly utility skills while pyro is pure damage. In fact very high damage

Last edited by Lesh; 08/10/17 06:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mermaid
Originally Posted by MadDemiurg
-Stat bloat and shopping. Seriously, I feel like I'm playing a shopping simulator. Because of ridiculous stat bloat you need to update gear at least every other level to keep up, which results in ridiculous runs across current location vendors in search of new items. It gets old pretty fast.


You really do not need to do this and this really is not an issue. Stat inflation only affects armour, not skills/stats. The only item that matters somewhat is the weapon for a physical damage dealer. The rest is almost arbitrary. Another 500 Magical Armour is just that. So long as you are not being chain stunned armour values are completely arbitrary. On each of my three playthroughs I have finished the game (even on Tactician) with sub level 10 items simply because I preferred the +1 Warfare over an extra 300 physical and 300 magical armour. The only thing you need to shop for is weapon and this is the sole reason for why trading is even needed in the game.


Depends if you build for ini and/or cheese when initiating fights. In many fights on tactician you would get oneshot if you don't go first and have bad armor. Shopping for several weapons every other level is pretty grueling on its own as well.

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Originally Posted by MadDemiurg
Originally Posted by Mermaid
Originally Posted by MadDemiurg
-Stat bloat and shopping. Seriously, I feel like I'm playing a shopping simulator. Because of ridiculous stat bloat you need to update gear at least every other level to keep up, which results in ridiculous runs across current location vendors in search of new items. It gets old pretty fast.


You really do not need to do this and this really is not an issue. Stat inflation only affects armour, not skills/stats. The only item that matters somewhat is the weapon for a physical damage dealer. The rest is almost arbitrary. Another 500 Magical Armour is just that. So long as you are not being chain stunned armour values are completely arbitrary. On each of my three playthroughs I have finished the game (even on Tactician) with sub level 10 items simply because I preferred the +1 Warfare over an extra 300 physical and 300 magical armour. The only thing you need to shop for is weapon and this is the sole reason for why trading is even needed in the game.


Depends if you build for ini and/or cheese when initiating fights. In many fights on tactician you would get oneshot if you don't go first and have bad armor. Shopping for several weapons every other level is pretty grueling on its own as well.


You realise that this is complete bullshit, right? I don't stat for Initiative (it's a dead stat anyway), I don't cheese fights, I don't shop for gear and I don't get oneshot in fights - not even on Tactician. Gearing really is not an issue in this game. There are three options: either you are (i) making a mountain out of a mole hill; (ii) getting your build really, really wrong; or (iii) being disingenuous. Take your pick.

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Idk, maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong. If you have low ini (i don't put any points into wits until main stat is maxed and I ignore vit completely) many of the enemies usually would get the first turn. I have picture of health on all my martial characters with warfare maxed, but a lot of encounters do a lot of alpha damage and enemies would usually not hesitate to use cc once your armor is down. Some are pretty close to oneshotting your guys even with level appropriate armor, e.g. Alice Alison. Maybe we can argue on definition of cheesing, but prebuffing with living on the edge(or really any form of prebuffing) or skipping pre combat dialogue to attack enemies from very favourable position or splitting them with teleport as combat initiator constitutes to cheesing in my book.

It's not like I'm having any issues beating stuff, but going around naked would be pretty painful to me. Maybe you can enlighten me how you deal with enemies getting the first turn and immidiately CCing your guys with battlestomp etc through their crap armor.

Last edited by MadDemiurg; 08/10/17 09:03 PM.
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Every time I see this topic I think it's about Divine Divinity until I realise "oh yeah". Er, anyway.


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Originally Posted by MadDemiurg
Idk, maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong. If you have low ini (i don't put any points into wits until main stat is maxed and I ignore vit completely) many of the enemies usually would get the first turn. I have picture of health on all my martial characters with warfare maxed, but a lot of encounters do a lot of alpha damage and enemies would usually not hesitate to use cc once your armor is down. Some are pretty close to oneshotting your guys even with level appropriate armor, e.g. Alice Alison. Maybe we can argue on definition of cheesing, but prebuffing with living on the edge(or really any form of prebuffing) or skipping pre combat dialogue to attack enemies from very favourable position or splitting them with teleport as combat initiator constitutes to cheesing in my book.

It's not like I'm having any issues beating stuff, but going around naked would be pretty painful to me. Maybe you can enlighten me how you deal with enemies getting the first turn and immidiately CCing your guys with battlestomp etc through their crap armor.


Initiative works in a round robin system, i.e. enemy#1, you#1, enemy#2, you#2, etc. Having high Initiative means that you get to go first, but in the worst case scenario you will still go second at worst. Sure, there are some fights in which one of your dudes may get CC'd on turn 1 before they get to have a go, but these are few and far in between. Hardly game breaking or a major issue for concern. Furthermore, being CC'd is not the end of the world - you can still win the fight in spite of this and CC can also be removed thereby restoring your turn. Even if CC was such a major issue, it would most likely be an issue with encounter design, or with the dual armour system and how it interacts with CC. And not about having to go to vendors every level.

As for what you are doing wrong - as you identified yourself, you are ignoring Constitution completely. Surely you realise that going full glass cannon at the expense of survivability has repercussions? You cannot expect to go balls out full damage and then whine about enemies killing you when they hit back? Stat distribution is a metagame for a reason. This isn't an issue about vendoring for gear - this is an issue about you not building your characters properly.

Alice Aliceson is not a good example - it is an atypical fight by any standard (as well as being completely optional). The cheeses you refer to - I don't use them.

And, finally, you admit that you really are not having a hard time beating the encounters. Why is it then that you feel the "need to update gear at least every other level to keep up" if you're not struggling?

I'm sorry, I don't want to come off as a dick, but I have seen many people voice similar concerns and these are just completely unfounded. You can beat the game on Tactician easy peasy without ever visiting a vendor. Yes, vendoring makes things easier, but that is the beauty in having options. If vendors did not have good gear - what would the point of having a currency be?

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The lack of polish and spells/abilities hurt the overall mechanical depth more than anything else in particular -- house is fine, furniture is missing.


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