Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General You can build good mages that can outdo 2H Melee

I think I mentioned it in the other thread, poly isn't always straight up better, if the skill system works the way I think it works.

For example, you are a pyro/geo mage that needs damage in these 2 schools, you have 60 int, 6 pyro, and 6 geo, and you have 4 skill points to spend on a lonewolf character.

Spending the points in pyro/geo, will make the damage for each school rise from 130% to 150%, equivalent to 15.38% more damage.

Spending the points in poly, which gives 8 int, will make the total damage go from, 350% to 390%, result in about 11.43% more damage.

In this case, going full poly is not a superior choice.

... Fireball is also ~1 AP and scales by level, those multipliers are better off on ~2 AP spells. What did you honestly expect from a ~1 AP spell? You've spent 4+ AP to do a little more damage than ~2 AP. Grats?

I'm not really shitting on Summoners, but this kind of comparison is disingenuous to both sides and misses the mark.

What are you talking about? Fireball is 2AP and you aren't just casting a Fireball. You're dumping 4-5 AP into the Incarnate, which then has 4AP to spend that turn. After the first turn you're at an AP advantage. You end up with a pet that also gets a single target ranged attack as well.

Mages that focus on casting elemental spells have the advantage of being able to cast more spells initially, and uh...congrats? That's all they can do, and it's overall less effective until Act 2 when the good stuff unlocks. Even then, they won't be dealing as much damage with the same spell for a while.

Also no idea what you're talking about in regards to the scaling. Fireball scales with INT, Pryo and level when you're casting it. For Summoning, it's just Summoning and level. It's not disingenuous pointing out how when a Mage that focuses on X element first is at a disadvantage. Because they are. Unless you keep dumping into MEM, your slots are finite anyway, and your spells don't exactly have short cooldowns.

Poly is 1:1 with Lonewolf.

Poly is never better unless you're going for utility over damage; you could, in theory, cover the missing DPS by having more tier 2 spells than the specialist. You would also probably have to have a weird order in which you cast your spells because the elements conflict or consume each other.

Either way, you aren't looking at more burst damage but you're more adapted to situations.

Arguably, the contendor for this position would be Summoner. If I could go 10 Pyro / 10 Sum, I would do that over 10 Pyro / 10 Geo because it streamlines everything.

Poly is 1 : 1 with lone wolf sure, but the you get 2 int for each point of poly, which is why I had this comparison.

And you should really go check out the mage combo thread I posted.

It's been mentioned elsewhere, the values have changed over EA, and you'll notice spell scaling reflect the original AP cost. The changes could be correlated with the existence of Elemental Affinity. Thus, fireball behaves like a 1AP action despite having the initial cost of 2AP. Furthermore, if you compare abilities across the board and bring in other factors (resistances, spacing, cool downs, memory, and whatever else) things only make more sense if you reduce spells by .5 or 1AP.

Advantage is solely determined by whatever the current game plan is. If the game plan is to kill things as soon as possible, then you may not have an advantage, you're possibly at a disadvantage or have achieved parity. If you can't kill things instantly and have to do a drawn out fight then you are at an advantage unless the tactical situation changes then you may be at a disadvantage.

In the current meta, most situations would say that you're at a disadvantage.



You can break through almost anyone's magic armor as an elementalist within the first turn in mid to late Act 1 and still have enough AP to CC them depending on your build. That's pretty much parity with everyone else. Your burst damage also exceeds or is the same as everyone else.



There are a few ways to look at it, but the important thing you should note is that fireball's base damage is that of a 1AP skill. Your multipliers are going to be far less effective on a spell that has low base damage.

Your comparisons really don't match up without considering the entire situation.

Alright but where is this math coming from exactly could you explain that? I see you said it's not additive so it's not just straight 5% for every point, which is what I thought, and I guess makes sense that it wouldn't be that way.

I'm not 100% sure on this either, but I think the damage formula works like this.

your base damage * (1 + percentage damage bonus from int) * (1 + percentage damage bonus from skills) * (1 + percentage damage bonus from height)

and 60 int is basically 50 bonus int x 5%, ends up with 250% inc damage, plus the base, 350%.

6 rank in a skill is 6 x 5%, 30% bonus, plus the base damage, 130%.

On anything more than the typical low magic armored melee unit? Is this another strictly Lone Wolf plan? Because it sure as hell doesn't happen at level 8 in a four person group even on Classic. You start with a total of 4 AP, 5 if you're an Elf. You aren't going to be CCing anything, let alone breaking the magic armor of most units at that point on your first turn.

All these posts about balance are nonsense. This game is not designed for min/max characters. It is balanced around 500-1000 damage per turn by level 20. Just because you can do better does not really mean anything and it surely does not add any fun to the game.

You are supposed to create a character that support the story not to figure out maximum killing speed. It is designed to be an RPG. I like freezing stuff with water and ice. I like hitting them with oil then blowing them up... twice in one round. I like teleporting things two football fields away just to see them have to run all the way back (I know I hate it when I get tped). I actually thought that the chicken hamstring thing was hilarious as well and cant believe it was nerfed (talk about taking fun out of a game). You are supposed to have fun. These things are fun. Sure I like smacking things with a huge 2H mace but eventually it gets old so I like to see variation.

Poly is worse numerically than any elemental skill, but on the upside it can boost multiple schools at the same time and it gives you access to skin graft and apotheosis as well as a few other useful skills.



You would be right if talking about explorer or classic. Tactician is supposed to be challenging with a min max party. And good balance is a big pro for players who enjoy the combat system more than RP.

Lots of talk about the formula. I put it in the initial post, but I'll repeat it here.

(primary stat% + weapon skill% - 9) * (elemental skill or warfare% + 1) * (crit multiplier[if you crit]% + high ground% + 1)

maxed out this looks something like "180% * 160% * 170%" for huntsman
or "180% * 160% * 200%" for scoundrel, if you crit.

A third option would be to build for crit gear and put your points into huntsman for highground, which would probably be best

It would look like "180% * 160% * 220%" if you crit, or "180% * 160% *170%" if you don't crit.

These are the same no matter what class you play. The only exception, is that if you go 2 hander, you can put your points into 2 hander instead of scoundrel.

It does up the challenge for average folks. You will note that there really are only a few people on the forum who actually min/max to the point of breaking the game. Most average folks likely think tactician is too hard especially on the 1st run (which is what people should have done if you really wanted a challenge).

Tactician = 500-1000 damage per turn
Normal = low end of tactician
Explorer = no idea... sneeze and they die?

Honestly this is what mods are for. But to expect a dev to produce a game for literally <1% of players is simply not reasonable from a financial perspective. Its better to lose the elites (as many MMO's learned the hard way in the past) than to lose the average. I actually want it harder. The game was too easy and simply not tactical enough even without min/max but I am also an ex-engineer with 2 science degrees who teaches at a university... so to me, Dark Souls was literally a boring snorefest and this game barely breaks the middle ground in terms of difficulty on tactician without any meta-gaming (1st play through).

I don't see a huge problem satisfying all groups of people. I doubt "average folks" could do XCOM legendary ironman, but it exists. Why highest difficulty should be easy for average player? I would also question if it's only 1% of people that find the game too easy. Judging by the forums its way more than that, although forum is obviously not representative. But we don't have any other data.

Great topic so far by the way.

I just wanted to add that Dodge is supposed to be the "resist" of physical as you all know but it's very uncommon in the game. Another thing that is important to note imo is that resist can be / go negative and actually boost elemental damage, something that doesn't exist for physical.

Flay skin is an amazing skill that encourages synergy between both type of damage and the game could use more of them, I think.

Really guys please if there is no spoiler tag in the topic plz dont spoil things like "Killed Braccus Rex"... So i guess Braccus Rex is back >_<

Glass Cannon? Adrenaline? Flesh Sacrifice? Most things do not have more than 3k magic armor pre-18 for a fact and you know what? You can possibly chew through 3k with a single crit, otherwise it'll take you two spells.

Dive -> Pawn -> Flesh -> Nova -> Adrenaline -> Ray -> Medusa. Total AP used 4. Total damage exceeds 4k.

Dive -> Pawn -> Flesh -> Nova -> Searing Daggers/Fireball
Total AP used 3. Total damage exceeds 3k.

At level 8? Flesh -> Fireball -> Pawn -> Nova -> Adrenaline -> Searing Daggers -> Medusa. Total damage will be around 290, 340ish if you pre-cast Medusa. If you're on a glass cannon character you can squeeze in Ignite and Combustion for around 85~.

So yeah, regardless, you have a guaranteed CC. You could also just charm the target too. Most things under level 8 don't exceed 300 magic armor. Alexander is one of the few.

I feel like you haven't ran through the game with an 'elemental first and make this as best as I can' mind set to see what the curve and experience is like.

If you base it on the forums, then the number is far below 1% given it has likely sold around 500k copies (I think). There are really only about 5 or 6 people who are actively asking for official changes. You need to remember most folks dont bother with forums and certainly, most are not min/maxers. They just play the game and you will never hear from them. Forums are usually the haven of more hardcore folks with a few comments here and there by people who find the game too hard.

I think tactician is too easy so I turned to mods to make it harder. I think its unwise to ask for more time spent making it harder. There is no point to that. Time is better spent on bugs and new content. We can always make it harder on our own with a little effort and like I said, I think there are enough people complaining that normal is too hard to justify keeping tactician as is. Frankly I think they should stop with the nerfs as well because some of them were damn funny to watch (hamstrung chicken for example).

Will it still work in online co-op if both players installed the same mods?

Dive, as in Phoenix Dive that doesn't even unlock until Act 2 (It might actually unlock at level 8 with the cave vendor, but I stopped checking him on my first playthrough after level 7.5 or so and Gareth always had it *after* the boat fight and never before), while also dumping a point into Scoundrel soley for one ability early game? Or were you actually dumping two points here for Cloak and Dagger, which is what you meant with "Dive"? Crit? Are you serious? You have almost no crit rate early on, and Savage Sortilege isn't a talent you would grab until your 3rd or 4th talent point anyway.

Glass Cannon? LOL. Unless you're also dumping points into WIT early (which means you're going to be doing even less damage), Glass Cannon is a hindrance as much as a help.

When the stars align and RNGesus blesses you then sure, what you're suggesting works. That's just pretty much almost never.

Have you even actually played this version of the game?

As for your last statement, that's pretty much entirely incorrect. I even just stated how I ran a with a group of four elemental casters and it was awful. You don't have unlimited spells, memory slots, talents or stat points to do everything you're suggesting on a single character. Your random "Uh, you can do..." scenariors aren't even practical until much later on.