Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General You can build good mages that can outdo 2H Melee

I'd like to point out that if guides and special strategies are required for magic to match physical (which hasn't even been proven yet), then that still wouldn't mean the two are equal.

If physical is just "put points into Warfare and use the obvious skills" and magic is "do this very specific build where you need to follow this very specific rotation to succeed," then that still means there are balance issues.

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As mage you can spend points on polymorph -> int to increase all magic damage that and scoundrel is all you need. Also mage armor gives higher magic armor, and that really helps as most strong enemies seem to have magical damage, where you can be cced more easily with str builds. Mages can replenish their with shields up while 2h str can't. 1h-shield is considerably lower damage.

In my.experience mages dmg can not even touch the dmg a ranger/rogue/warrior can produce. Mage can be built insanely sturdy tho but since the enemies will always target whoever has the weakest defenses its counter productive to build a tanky character instead of another high dmg character. Its viable if you are soloing tho.

It has been agreed upon earlier that the damage increase from 1 point in Poly to boost int is not as strong as 1 point in a magic school to bost the damage with specific elemental damage,at least for a pure mage.For a hybrid the only instance I can think of when Poly is really good is when you are making a geo/poly hybrid,because those points in Geo will buff that medusa head damage really nice,otherwise it's just a place where you can dump stats for your battlemage to get Bull Rush and Wings (personal note:I do use bull rush on my battlemage because it's a mobility skill that does piercing damage and it keeps my teleport and netherswap off cooldown).

One is multiplicative, one is additive.

I mean, this shouldn't be too hard to prove.

1. Get a save towards the end of the game.
2. Respec between various two-handed / ranger / mage builds, preferably naked except for the weapon
3. Record damage ranges for all abilities
4. Look up boss stats for key fights in the editor and compensate for resistance values
5. Look up physical / magical armor ratio for bosses as well

Does everything line up?

Ok,get to work then.
Jokes aside to respec in order to cover boss elemental imunities is a nightmare like no other and is something most of RPG players will simply not do because it's too much busy work. Based on the conversations in this section of the fourm,there is no doubt in my mind that mages are meant to spam dual wielded wand attacks until the opponents armor can be nuked down in one spell,idealy with a critical strike,because it's more reliable than securing good positioning every fight.

So far I have been messing around with a staff wielding battlemage,clad in a huge suit of plate armor and I am simply steam rolling through most encounters...but it's not as fun as I hoped it to be,simply because my auto attacks with the staff and staff of magus deals more damage than any of my 2 ap spells and I had to rely on RNG very early on to get items to cover the spell requirements for Whirlwind,Teleport,Netherswap and Chameleon Cloak.....which are the base of my build.

That's why you don't respec - get enough in all elements to cast the skills you want (with gear) and the rest into boosting your crits and polymorph 5 for skin graft and apotheosis. I find wand/staff builds ok early/mid game but lategame there's no point since you do way more damage with your source skills (and they usually oneshot enemy magic armor if you choose the right one). The stuff that makes wand and staff builds good, like venom coating and surface damage scales pretty poorly into the lategame as well.

It's just elemental affinity being a thing, they really should have normalized the values.

My late game plan is Summoning and Pyro and I never used venom coating.The plan is simple - get a strong fire or air staff,burst magi armor,then charm to finish them off.

As a backup plan I have a cleric that can make blood surfaces with very high geo and hydro powers and elemental arrowheads on my wayfarer.

But to return to toppic....mages (not summoners) can match the damage of a 2h physical melee.

I think Salvage Sortilege+Torture with 10 points in Scoundrel is the strongest choice,because in my opinion it is easier to crit,than to set up your mage on high ground,while the opponent is stuck on low ground.

If you can expand on the above with a hulking huge suit of plate armour and a magical staff overchared with great elemental power,even better...you are tanky mage than can fight head to head with a knight,but you traded valuable CC for Dots if you went fire or have to assume huge risks with Lighting (you can shock yourself by accident if you are not carefull) or Poison (if you run into undead you are screwed)

That works (and is pretty essential sometimes) until level 3 or so, yes.

Once you get to level 4 you have far better options.

Once you get to level 9 or later you would be mad to do that. You are doing far less damage and basically ignoring the (limited) advantages of being a mage.

If you are only using your basic attack in later levels then you'll find it hard. I did do a playthorough as Fane with warfare and staff. It was fun but not that efficient really. I died quite a lot.

I am using a custom human character. So far I am at level 13 with a Legendary staff and dressed in a full plate.What makes mages not fun for me is the fact that unlike warriors and rouges,they traded cc for dots,and whatever CC mages have left is......well......shocked+rain/water arrow to turn into stuned,but if the water surface touches a companion there is a risk of complications. The other form of CC is Dominate Mind....hit them with staff until their magic armour drops,then brainwash them.

Ow I almost forgot about Oil Magic (fosil strike and it's bigger brothers) - free cc and damage,just keep your allies clear of the impact damage. I agree,past level 4 you can start to deal decent damage...but elemental mages are about applying dots through direct damage (fossil strike+fireball for instance) or by creating damaging surfaces (dazling bolt+rain) that do the dirty work for you and alternating between auto attacks and spells for me is the best strategy for a pure mage to deal consistent damage.....or you can just blow all your spells in one go hopeing they crit,then use Apotheosis,the strongest source skill in game.

Had I made a custom undead elf instead of a human,I would have probably been able to take more risks,the points I put early on into Poly for Chameleon Cloak and Wings would have went somewhere else....but even so I regret the fact that we do not have a single target spell that makes characters wet and deals water damage and chilling touch as it would have made staff wielding battle mages competitive with necro knights in terms of CC and sustain.

Guess it depends on what you mean by "outdo". Both mages or fighters/rangers that are min/maxed in a solo build can end every combat encounter in the game in the first turn, starting at around level 16, when 3 source point skills become available. Mages end up doing more overall damage (>100k crits easily on multiple targets), but that doesn't really matter since you don't need that much damage for any hostiles.

I agree there are pros and cons to both.Mages have better AoE and deal more damage to the health bar because they have access to the most dots (ignited oil or poison surfaces,electrified liquid sources) while fighters and rangers have good single target dps and excelent CC.

With my battlemage I have both excelent single target and aoe damage,but my team comp is just awfull because I made 3 big mistakes:

*my first was not getting a dedicated summoner in favor of a warfare/scoundrel hybrid capable of stealing Quen Justinia's underware while she is wearing them from right under.

*my second mistake was the fact that I did not do enough research on battlemages to realize that my only forms of CC in melee range are lighting bolt at point blank and shocking touch,which can backfire horribly if a water source forms right under my feet and dominate mind.

*my last mistake is that I made Sebile my dedicated party healer in place of a Fane,who is the warfare/scoundrel hybrid I mentioned early.

Why would you put Fane who has Time Warp as a utility character.. when it makes more sense to put him first or be a primary damage dealer and if you made him a healer he couldn't even heal himself without diverting points into geo.

Just use warfare skills and whack people with a staff and scale off of elemental.

Fane can cast time warp on anyone, actually it makes sense to cast on someone else since he'll get two full turns as opposed to Fane who already spent 2 ap on time warp on his first turn.

Thank you for explaining that for me. To me Time Warp is a utility skill meant to be used in the manner described by the MadDemiurg.
Also,I already have someone else in my party who is hitting people with his staff while dressed in a plate armour on a full time basis.

The amount of set up you need for 2H is no where near for a perfect meteor storm.

You can make scoundrels and huntsmen who deal more damage than warfare builds, but absolutely not magic users.

Its simply because physical does not have resistances and magic does. Most enemies from Act 2 on have multiple resistances, and very rarely a elemental weakness. So while a physical character is dealing 500 damage every hit, your magic user is hitting 500 damage minus elemental protections.

This doesnt really matter though. The game is easy and you wont be challenged even if you make a sub-optimal build.