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Modders are not responsible for the game not loading or taking a long time to load. There's nothing at all that we can do is fix loading issues, and as far as I know, there's nothing we can do to cause them.

There isn't a "stop loading," "slow loading," or "break saves" setting. There also isn't a "disable achievements" setting...

And if adding content to the game caused the game to stop loading, the game wouldn't run at all. Mods don't do anything "weird." There are no DLL hacks or anything like that. Mods use the same file types and the same kind of content used in the rest of the game, and they are packaged and distributed on the Workshop with the same editor used by Larian.

All scripts in mods are event-driven; they only run when those events occur. They do not run on loading screens. Furthermore, scripts that fail to run due to errors in those scripts fail silently and gracefully; the game continues to run, oblivious to those errors. In fact, the game is so oblivious to those errors, those errors aren't even logged, which makes debugging kind of difficult for us.

I don't know much about adventure mods that add whole new campaigns and levels, but I am 99.999% certain that add-on mods that deal only in data cannot cause loading issues. If you're experiencing loading issues, please stop blaming modders.

Just because uninstalling a mod may yield better performance does not indicate that the mod is at fault.

[Linked Image]
Rooster Syndrome

And for every players who says uninstalling mods allowed the game to load all the way, I've seen 10 more players say that uninstalling mods had no effect.

There may be a problem with an underlying system that causes loading to stop or slow down when ANY mod is installed, but it is not a problem created by modders or one that can be resolved by us. Guys, we have access to the same tools that you do.

If you're experiencing loading issues, your only options are to:
  • be patient on the loading screen - and vocal about loading issues here in this forum; or
  • don't use mods at all.
Finally, voting down Workshop mods, or calling modders out, because of loading issues is just a terrible thing to do. Please stop.

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I'd like to add that scripts that don't work or run in the game, for those who installs mods but don't really know how they work; When a modder writes a new script to a mod, it has to be "built" and if the script somehow confuses the game or doesn't work, it will give an error and won't save to the mod.

Basically, scripts that doesn't work, can't be saved. Not saved = doesn't exist = Can't exist on Workshop smile

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Finally, voting down Workshop mods, or calling modders out, because of loading issues is just a terrible thing to do. Please stop.

People do this?

Thanks for addind content for me but you suck lol.

Modders can test out their mod. Not their mod pmis whatever mod / setting combo you decide to use.

Some.mods with lots of added content may take longer to load but that's the cost of adding stuff the devs should have had be default. At least thats the only loading delay ive had that could be caused by mods since I have like 20 including game levels in gm mode. Not their fault they added a lot of content I want.

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Actually my game isn't loading through regular steam channels and I have to load the app from local files. Dan modders screwing up my game before it even loads mods.

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Activating a mod clearly seems to take a long time. It doesn't seem to matter what the mod does or how big it is. Definitely seems to be an issue that Larian has to solve, not modders. I assume the save has to be updated, perhaps with entities throughout the game needing to be updated. It's pretty amazing how long it can take to "update" though, in the order of 10-15 minutes. It's also unclear if activating multiple mods at the same time makes a difference.

In general I've found my load times to be perfectly fine after activating mods though. So no idea what's going on.

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@Baardvark: KVN actually explained in part how the loading system works:

Originally Posted by Larian_KVN
When you enable a mod, a custom story is built at runtime that uses the header and goal files of all relevant modules to create the final story for the game. Also when running from an existing savegame, if a change to the add-on setup is detected, those new goals, etc. get patched in/out of the existing story. (It's also how we patch in story changes to the actual game).

"Mod" doesn't just mean mods we create, but also the official patches, which are loaded just like mods. So, it sounds like any time you enable a mod, or just run the game with patches, the game recompiles the entire story with that new data. I understand why they did this (budget + time), but a more performant solution would be to patch in/out new data instead of rebuilding the whole story.

In my real-world database work, we had to figure out a way to add content to a database-driven platform without interrupting the experience, so we needed real-time delta indexing, which allowed us to insert new results without cutting off customers from the service and forcing us to rebuild the index. The game needs something similar, perhaps running in a background thread.

Why do we have to load the ENTIRE story anyway? I think the story data could be segmented and streamed in as needed, but that's a huge architectural project for which Larian may not have the resources, based on the PC Gamer interview with Swen.

Originally Posted by WMC51
People do this?

Yeah. I've had people come at me like "this modder isn't listening to the community! What a terrible human being. Don't download his mods!" Like, what am I supposed to do about loading times? Take down my mods?

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@fireundubh

There seems to have been a slight misunderstanding in how you interpreted my response. A new story is indeed built when enabling mods and when patching in an official story patch, but I never stated there is no optimization there. For example, when loading an existing save we already have story in that save, and with a story patch we ship a new story, so we can check the differences and patch in the specific changes. Rest assured I had no loading time issues when playing with your mods, so those are perfectly fine. (I specifically liked you "Say What You Want" mod, allowing me to see so much more of our dialog options in one go.)

I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with people downvoting your mods, but I wouldn't get worked up about it too much. It's sadly something that every content creator has to deal with from time to time. As they say, you can't keep everyone happy. Given your mod quality and their usefulness, I'm sure the positive ratings will keep prevailing smile

That being said, do feel free to direct them to us. We are aware of everything people report and look into their issues. If people report performance issues to you, just show them we listen to their feedback and let them come to us, we're more than happy to use their pc information, logs, etc. to troubleshoot their issues and make their overall experience better smile

Sincerely,
Kevin

Last edited by Larian_KVN; 11/10/17 09:26 AM.

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Originally Posted by Larian_KVN
There seems to have been a slight misunderstanding in how you interpreted my response.

Thank you for the clarification!

Originally Posted by Larian_KVN
As they say, you can't keep everyone happy. Given your mod quality and their usefulness, I'm sure the positive ratings will keep prevailing.

Thank you for the kind words.

Originally Posted by Larian_KVN
That being said, do feel free to direct them to us. We are aware of everything people report and look into their issues. If people report performance issues to you, just show them we listen to their feedback and let them come to us, we're more than happy to use their pc information, logs, etc. to troubleshoot their issues and make their overall experience better smile

Trying. I've linked them to this forum and thread.


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