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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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After seeing several questions and confusion regarding persuasion on the Forum, I decided to do some testing and share the results:
Black Ring Camp - ACT 3 - MEM CHECK
Test 1 - 0 PER / 0 MEM = Fail = Failable test
Test 2 - 0 PER / 34 MEM = Fail
Test 3 - 0 PER / 100 MEM = Fail (Broken, ignore)
Test 4 - 0 PER / 500 MEM = Fail (Broken, ignore)
Test 5 - 0 PER / 10000 MEM = Fail (Broken, ignore)
Test 6 - 5 PER / 0 MEM = Fail
Test 7 - 5 PER / 50 MEM = Pass (I was starting to think it was impossible)
Test 8 - 5 PER / 10 MEM = Fail = PER is absolutely not an independent check.
Test 9 - 1 PER / 10.000 MEM = Fail (Could be that there is a hard cap on how much of the attribute is used, or you need to pass an attribute check AND a PER check) (Broken, Ignore)
Test 10 - 4 PER / 40 MEM = Fail
Test 11 - 5 PER / 40 MEM = Pass (Check too hard for conclusive results, since only 5 PER can ever pass it)
Test 12 - 6 PER / 0 MEM = Pass
Test 13 - 5 PER / 25 MEM = Pass
Test 14 - 5 PER / 20 MEM = Fail
Test 15 - 5 PER / 23 MEM = Fail
Test 16 - 5 PER / 24 MEM = Pass
So far:
PER alone is not enough to pass a check
Checks either have both an attribute and a PER check or there is a cap for how much an attribute can contribute.
Ship Magisters - ACT 1 SHIP - INT CHECK
Test 1 = 0 PER / 10 INT = Fail
Test 2 = 1 PER / 10 INT = Pass
Test 3 = 1 PER / 0 INT = Pass
Test 4 = 0 PER / 40 INT = Pass
Test 5 = 0 PER / 20 INT = Pass
Test 6 = 0 PER / 15 INT = Pass
Test 7 = 0 PER / 13 INT = Pass
Test 8 = 0 PER / 12 INT = Pass
Test 9 = 0 PER / 11 INT = Fail
Since at 0 of the attribute and 1 PER the check always passes, this check is too easy for conclusive results.
Stingtail - ACT 1 - INT Check
Test 1 = 0 PER / 10 INT = Fail
Test 2 = 0 PER / 30 INT = Pass
Test 3 = 0 PER / 20 INT = Pass
Test 4 = 0 PER / 15 INT = Pass
Test 5 = 1 PER / 0 INT = Pass
Stingtail - ACT 1 - MEM Check
Test 1 = 1 PER / 0 MEM = Fail
Test 2 = 5 PER / 0 MEM = PASS
Test 3 = 1 PER / 20 MEM = Fail
Test 4 = 1 PER / 40 MEM = Fail
Test 5 = 1 PER / 201 MEM = Fail (Broken, ignore)
Test 6 = 2 PER / 0 MEM = Fail
Test 7 = 3 PER / 0 MEM = Pass
Test 8 = 2 PER / 40 MEM = Pass
Test 9 = 2 PER / 25 MEM = Pass
Test 10 = 2 PER / 15 MEM = Pass
Test 11 = 2 PER / 10 MEM = Fail
Test 12 = 2 PER / 13 MEM = Fail
Test 13 = 2 PER / 14 MEM = Pass
Test 14 = 1 PER / 70 MEM = Fail (70 is the max, 30 stats and Lonewolf, without breaking the softcap, still, can't know how much goes for the check)
At this point I found out that the way I was breaking the cap wasn't working, which is why I wrote "(Broken, ignore)" on several results, those are all useless, as the attribute was not propperly working (this probably means the 0's should be treated as 10's too).
Afterwards I continued on the same Stingtail check.
Test 15 = 1 PER / 590 MEM = Fail (This time with the attribute on items, so I'm certain it was working, still can't be sure if there is a hardcap for persuasion purposes though).
From those results, there are 2 possible conclusions: Conclusion 1 - All checks have 2 ways of being passed: either have X persuasion, or have X-1 persuasion and Y of the relevant attribute.
Conclusion 2 - Both the attribute and the Persuasion skill are relevant for the check. But for the purpose of a persuasion check there is a hard cap on the relevant attribute.
Note that conclusion 1 could be false: if the persuasion gives a very large contribution to the relevant stat, large enough that it can't be met with attributes because of the hardcap.
Or, conslusion 2 could be false: and each level of persuasion changes the attribute requirements to pass a check.This doesn't absolutely answers it, but narrows it down to 2 possibilities. As far as playing is concerned, it appears that attributes over 14 # are irrelevant, checks normally require 14 # attribute + x-1 persuasion, or x persuasion. 14 # is also the largest requirement on equipment so it makes some small ammount of sense, for now. (edit: stats above 14 appear to be relevant at some checks, probably it increases as the games goes forward, the remaining conclusions remain the same) For absolute certainty I'd need a check where it is possible to pass at 3 different values of persuasion, that is probably the only way to pinpoint the hardcap and how exactly persuasion contributes to the check. Until someone datamines the requirements this should settle some confusion for players. Cheers!
Last edited by NeoAnubis; 17/10/17 10:22 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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Actual attribute requirements, when relevant do probably depend from specific encounter.
Here is the testing sample I did in other thread:
Persuading the executioner at the gallows, Act 2.
7CON + 4PER - SUCCESS
22CON + 3PER - SUCCESS (fails with 21CON)
34CON + 2 PER - FAIL
10STR + 3PER - SUCCESS
26STR + 2PER - SUCCESS (fails with 25STR)
34STR + 1PER - FAIL
35WITS + 5PER - FAIL
As you can see, when attributes were relevant, Con check required 22, and Str check 26. But with high enough Persuasion, neither of them was needed and with too low Persuasion, even much higher attributes would lead to fail.
This does seem in line with your test samples, but your encounters are in early Act 1, and there most of the checks with attributes require much lower values (like 12INT or 14WIS in your examples).
Last edited by player1; 17/10/17 10:10 PM.
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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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First test is in act 3, at a check that requires a min of 5 persuasion. Also, the Stingtail MEM check requires more than 1 persuasion and less than 5, which is the range I was looking for (also why I stopped there)
Your results do not change any of the 2 conclusions.
Although they do sugest that Attributes over 14 might be relevant at X-1 Persuasion.
Last edited by NeoAnubis; 17/10/17 10:13 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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Your Act 3 test shows that with PER6 Memory attribute is irrelevant (for that encounter), and that is passed with MEM40 at 5PER, and failed with MEM10. But we do not know what is exact threshold at PER5 for that encounter (it is something between 11 and 40).
Anyway, as far as now, both mine and your testing samples are in line. Which is good.
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So, some dialogue choice will always pass if Persuasion meets some needed level.
But if Persuasion is one level lower, and Attribute requirement for that dialogue choice needs to pass also.
And if Persuasion is 2 levels lower, it will not pass (as far as testing shows).
Last edited by player1; 17/10/17 10:20 PM.
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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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I have a save there and could check it, but it is irrelevant for either of the conclusions, for the reasons already stated (which is why I won't do it unless new info suggests it could be relevant).
Edit: nvm, I did it out of curiosity, updated first post.
Again: your results suggest that 14 is not a hardcap on the attribute requirement (updated on the first post), but do not change either presented conclusion.
Last edited by NeoAnubis; 17/10/17 10:24 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2014
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Well, yes, you are correct. These are the same findings I had in other thread. Good that we have confirmation from another source.
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