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BG3, my 5 main concerns #652781
08/06/19 06:41 PM
08/06/19 06:41 PM
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Linkamus Offline OP
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Linkamus  Offline OP
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This announcement has been the definition of 'mixed feelings'. Baldur's Gate is my all time favorite game, and have been playing it for over 15 years. So while I'm excited for a new game in the series, I have some serious concerns.

1. The Title... Why is it called Baldur's Gate 3 when at first glance it appears the story will have nothing (almost nothing?) to do with the main story arc of the first games. I hope I'm wrong in this. I'm hoping the story has a direct link to the original games. The protagonist of BG3 being a [spoiler]direct descendant of the protagonist of BG1 & 2 could be cool? Maybe? [/spoiler]

2. The Feel... Obviously this game will be very modern, but I hope that the devs can maintain a familiar feel from the first games. Pillars of Eternity did pretty well in this regard. Please keep that isometric elevated camera! I'm sure full 2D prerendered sprites is probably too much to ask for, but that'd be amazing.

3. Auto Scaling... I hope we see none of this. Even less than we saw in BG1 & BG2 (which had almost none already). Kill it with fire. I've never been able to bring myself to finish a single RPG that had noticeable auto-scaling. As soon as I notice it, the immersion is completely lost, and I lose all motivation to play. The player should have to find out ways to deal with the world presented to them. It is the player that should have to change their actions, or strategies, to overcome challenges, not the other way around.

4. Static loot... While I loved the IWD series, I always hated the random loot factor in those games. After going through the game the first time, part of the replay value is being able to pump up the difficulty to insane levels, and plan out a party build knowing what items they will eventually find and use. Having to hope the roll of the dice is nice to you when it comes to loot drops should be left for MMOs, and MMOs only.

5. Balance Between Humor and Darkness... BG1 & 2 nailed the balance between these two things perfectly. Slapstick humor, yet still dark and epic. I hope this style doesn't change.

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

Last edited by Linkamus; 08/06/19 06:43 PM.
Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Linkamus] #652784
08/06/19 10:57 PM
08/06/19 10:57 PM
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Midway Through Infinity
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1. Is the title being BG3 really so bad that it is a "concern"? The title... is just a title, even if some think it inappropriate or see it as a "cash in", as some random guy on GameSpot put it. Maybe... using the BG label suggests this game will follow in the footsteps of the original games in terms of epicness, quality, atmosphere, story writing, overall style? Can't it just be symbolism? Paying homage? How about that? WE ALL GET THAT IT WILL BE A DIFFERENT STORY, OF COURSE the Bhaalspawn saga is finished,... but what's the big deal? If the game is actually solid and delivers, I don't give $*$#!@#*... what it's called. "Baldur's Gate 3"? Sure. I could come up with worse titles. The fact that there will be references to the old games is good enough for me.

Ever since the rumor of a "BG3" surfaced, this title has always been just a symbol to me, more or less. It just represents the spirit. So I don't get why some people are so fixated on the fact that the game is called BG3, and have negative attitude just because of that (not that I'm saying *you* are having negative attitude - I'm just saying generally, based on what I've read from various websites). Chances are, people will stop having problem with the title, if the game is good ENOUGH. So let's just wait and see if the game is good "enough", yes?


"We make our choices and take what comes and the rest is void."
Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Linkamus] #652787
09/06/19 06:04 AM
09/06/19 06:04 AM
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Linkamus Offline OP
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Linkamus  Offline OP
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Ya, I definitely don't have a negative attitude, just a bit wary. I guess my thought behind the title being a concern is that if it doesn't follow the bhaalspawn story line, it should be called something like "Baldur's Gate: Interesting Title Here" Instead of "Baldur's Gate III". However, I think your line of reasoning is sound. If it's an amazing, and does justice to the baldur's gate franchise, then ya, I don't care what it's called.

Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Linkamus] #652788
09/06/19 07:19 AM
09/06/19 07:19 AM
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Slagathor Offline
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1. Title ;

Just hope they do the series justice. It is not impossible to hire an excellent creative writer, who can weave an amazing story into the fabric of the existing story and world of BG.

2. the Feels;

Agreed. I would also love to see sprites, but I think we are rare in that opinion and I have no hope at all for that happening.
Games must be visually overwhelming now to stand out in the crowd. Eyecandy is a thing. Only indie games seem to break from that and BG3 is too big a title to take chances with.
Why do BG2's sprites still please me more than all the other modern 3d rendered games? Because it gives a beautiful and unique atmosphere. It's like moving through a beautiful waterpainting. Yes, the characters look a bit more vague and are less detailed. But it's like reading a good book; your mind fills in the gaps.
And in my case those gaps are filled in far more beautifully than staring at a crisp but boring 3d character, where every little detail is spelled out for you visually.
The atmosphere bg2 captured was quite unique. There is a huge overlooked component here as well, that has nothing to do with visuals, but I won't go into that.

3. Autoscaling;

Autoscaling is for kiddies. BG is for adults. I don't have to worry about this....right?

4. Loot;

*stands up and coughs*

"My name is Ramon...and I am a loot-whore".
*various encouraging greetings from people in the room*

I have played games for 36 years now.
Nothing gives me more satisfaction, than finding the most awesome loot.
I have to find all of it. I have to buy all of it.
Every container in the world is double-checked.
I am that overburdened player that keeps dragging stacks of rusty swords to the market.
Every copper counts, because I want to buy all the rare weapons from shops as well as soon as possible.
It fills me with satisfaction and glee.

I like both random and fixed loot. Borderlands is a good example. Trash mobs drop random loot. Bosses drop fixed loot.
I see no reason why you couldn't combine the 2 systems into 1. It has been done before.
As long as you don't get screwed out of important drops due to a crappy diceroll...

5. Balance humor/darkness;

Good writing solves everything.
Just look at the impact of the quality by switching writers for Game of Thrones.
BG is a huge and vivid living world.
I adore the fact that you can be busy enjoying the main questline and then suddenly stumble upon a side quest that completely seduces you.
Suddenly I am in dirty sewers under an inn. What is this legendary sword that speaks?
There are traps and riddles.
Where do these dark tunnels lead?
Should I even be here?
Exciting stuff!

BG was very well written. It made all the difference.
For a game to become legendary, it has to nail all of it's components.
Push them all to the highest possible levels.

Story
Visuals
Sound
Gameplay

If one of them is mediocre, it will drag down the rest.
It's like a beautiful frosted cake with whipped cream on top.
If there is a fly on top of it, it ruins the experience.
You can remove the fly and take a bite, but it's not the same anymore.
BG did not have a fly on top of it.
It had just more layers of delicious exotic fruit and whipped cream and cherries on top.
It was of a rare perfection.
Which is why I still play it now decades later.
And why I am excited for another adventure.

Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Linkamus] #652796
09/06/19 02:03 PM
09/06/19 02:03 PM
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kanisatha Offline
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Yes the original BG games were not special because of any one factor. Almost all of the elements of those games were to be found in other games as well. What made the BG games so very special was the perfect combination of those factors coming together in a beautiful synergy. And yes, that included combat gameplay.

Re. the title, it is entirely reasonable for people to be unhappy with the "BG III" title. I also very strongly believe they should have gone with "Baldur's Gate: subtitle" (and Baldur's Gate: Return of the Illithari would've been a great choice) and not "BG III." Specifically, it's the "III" in the title that bothers me.

Should someone pass on the game just because of this? That's each individual's prerogative. For my part, the title is not a deal-breaker. But the game having a combat gameplay system in any way similar to that of the D:OS games .... yeah, that would be a deal-breaker for me.

Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Linkamus] #652797
09/06/19 02:44 PM
09/06/19 02:44 PM
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Sonizorus Offline
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Hey guys, imho, over 20 years a lot has changed. Even a new generation has emerged, the Z generation people have no idea what Forgotten Realms is or even D&D. So the developpers should def. explain what Forgotten realms is, D&D and even Faerun and Toril in the game (I don't know, like with a video or scene or short movie in the game menu). They should warm up new generation people to the genre at all. This even may be the rebirth of the old ways, explaining old the beauties of the old to the new. They should expertise this perspstective and see the bigger picture.

I'm sure it will be helpful for us too because a lot has changed since the 3,5 rule set. The world has changed. So update us with the 5th e. what has changed in the 20 years time

They could implement these so called videos or cutscenes in the game menu or smth.

Just an idea from a marketing guy.

Regards.

Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Linkamus] #652850
12/06/19 05:52 AM
12/06/19 05:52 AM
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Ploughed Jester Offline
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The Title is INCREDIBLY important. BGI and II are 100% linked to hte story of the Bhaalspawn that was Gorion's Ward. To legitimately be BG III, this game has to continue that story somehow. If not, call it something else.

It can be a Baldur's Gate Game, that's fine, but calling it III without a hard link, even a descendant as an npc party member or main plot character, or the ward as the lord of murder being somehow related to cause/resolution or a patron somehow... some CONSIDERABLE link is definitely required to truly be BGIII

Also... the rest of the stuff the OP said too... those are cool, though I care less about the locked isometric view. I like to be able to pull all the way up into Iso for tactical view then push into a raised 3rd person or like DoS for action viewing.



They also need to get the lore right, like Sonizorus said. The trailer released is really wrong. That's not the correct way Illithid transformations work, so they either need to fix that (disregard their video) or come up with an in story reason why the transformations are not normal and work like they do.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ceremorphosis <-----Forgotten Realms reference material

Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Linkamus] #652851
12/06/19 07:41 AM
12/06/19 07:41 AM
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Kroked Offline
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The name, I'm fine with, and its a done deal anyway. It'd probably make more sense for it to be something like "Return to Baldur's Gate" so it doesn't feel like it needs to tie as a sequel, but, whatever.

Having the same art style is important, though isomorphic top down isn't necessary. MOST IMPORTANT IS NEW SHADERS DIFFERENT FROM DIVITY.

Autoscaling is the devil, and should be sent to the pit of hell. It completely misunderstands RPG logic, and it for real idiots.

Some loot being static, like 'boss' loot is a necessity. Random loot is fun too, but it shouldn't make or break the game.

Humor/Dark is of course the important, thats what make it Baldur's gate rather than Neverwinter Nights.


@
Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Linkamus] #652868
12/06/19 10:29 AM
12/06/19 10:29 AM
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As far as I can remember NWN1 and NWN2 were unrelated storyline wise in the terms that is wasn't the continuation of the same character. This didn't bother me personally. I feel the same about BG3, in that it doesn't need to be part of the Bhaalspawn Saga. The overall story for me is about the city itself as opposed the individual characters. On saying that however, I like to play the same character through all the D&D games whether that be IWD, BG, or NWN. I tend to blur the timelines a little so less time has passed and come up with reasons why they are back to lvl 1 again.


Love and sausages xx
Re: BG3, my 5 main concerns [Re: Slagathor] #652871
12/06/19 10:41 AM
12/06/19 10:41 AM
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Tuco Offline
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Originally Posted by Slagathor


4. Loot;

*stands up and coughs*

"My name is Ramon...and I am a loot-whore".
*various encouraging greetings from people in the room*

I have played games for 36 years now.
Nothing gives me more satisfaction, than finding the most awesome loot.
I have to find all of it. I have to buy all of it.
Every container in the world is double-checked.
I am that overburdened player that keeps dragging stacks of rusty swords to the market.
Every copper counts, because I want to buy all the rare weapons from shops as well as soon as possible.
It fills me with satisfaction and glee.

I like both random and fixed loot. Borderlands is a good example. Trash mobs drop random loot. Bosses drop fixed loot.
I see no reason why you couldn't combine the 2 systems into 1. It has been done before.
As long as you don't get screwed out of important drops due to a crappy diceroll...


I love finding awesome loot as well. In fact it's my opinion that a good/bad itemization system can make or break an RPG and it's progression/reward system.

That's *PRECISELY* why I love to find unique, hand-placed items that will stick with you for a while and I absolutely despise the garbage randomized loot we got in the two D:OS games.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE

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