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I loved BG1/2 but the amount of played time with those games is *dwarfed* by the amount of played time in NWN2 (my NWN2 PW is still up and has active players to give some context)

I'm looking forward to BG3 but there' s no reason it can't be both. Hear me out here, the only difference between a BG style game and a NWN style game is a toolset and a runnable server option. They have to make the game anyway so why not start by creating a toolset, one that can be shipped with the game.

look, you can never create content faster than we can consume it, you can never make all the classes or races available in all the books and you cannot legally make any story you want.

But, you don't have to, give us a toolset and we'll do it for you.

(also, when implementing things like races/clases if you find yourself hard-coding these kind of properties, rethink your approach and, please, no hard capped anything)

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Toolset and private servers is pretty high up on my feature requests too. That's why NWN1 and NWN2 have lasted so long. We don't need to rely on matchmaking servers to play because we can just direct connect to somebody's IP address. DM mode is a must have too IMHO.


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I loved NWN 1 and 2. PLayed a lot in co-op. I would love to see the third installment, but with console versions this time. The first nwn is coming to consoles, so I don´t see why the third, if it evers comes out, couldn´t be as well.

Anyway, I hope Larian gets NWN3 and also some AAA game like Dragon Age in the future

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I've actively disliked NWN 2 for years and I don't think it even competes in the same league with a classic like BG2, so that's definitely a thumb down from me.


Last edited by Tuco; 14/06/19 09:29 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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I loved the campaign tool in NWN hence my earlier post on that being a HUGE feature request. That's why I spent so much on DnDBeyond as well. I like creating custom content and I run my own homebrew campaigns!!

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Hopefully the success of this game may lead to sequels of other DnD classics (I'd really love to see an Icewind Dale 3 too). I definitely hope NWN3 will come one day. BG2 had the most ideal single player experience, but NWN1/2 had the best multiplayer experience. I notice consistently that nearly everyone who has an unfavourable opinion of NWN1/2 judge it entirely on it's single player campaigns, which was never intended to be the core focus of those games. NWN was made specifically to be distinct from BG/IWD games, and provide us something approximating (as close as the engine would allow at the time) the table top experience, yet within the limits of a 3d game. Because of the tools built for the community, the community essentially made this game, with the massive amount of mods, Persistent Worlds (player run servers) and modules created for it during the heyday of those games. The unique possibilities that the NWN1/2 games provided is still something that is entirely unmatched by any other game, but hopefully that won't forever remain the case.

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Yes I judge the NwN games purely on single-player because I never play anything multiplayer. And yet, my judgement of those games is not entirely negative. I do dislike NwN1 but really love NwN2. The reason has nothing to do with the single-player experience, which is pretty good in both games, but rather that the first game is solo play (i.e. no party) whereas the second game is party-based. That's the key factor for me.

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I agree... I loved NWN2!

Why? (Some people just say they hated or liked it, but please give reasons!)

Party based, with good extended playing system / rules with plenty of fan created mods to make the game replayable etc...
Graphics was ok, and the main game itself was something I enjoyed.
It had a good castle / home base system that was customizable!!!

--> Customizable stronghold is such a great idea. (DAI said it had different strongholds but it was the same every playthrough really) You could build different buildings for different things, and had to look after your own militia / standing army! Was great!

So all the benefits of BG2 but no drawbacks.... Except that the main game story wasn't as good as BG2.

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I still think NWN1 is superior to NWN2 except for Mask of the Betrayer.

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agreed, however i dont think the magic of NWN will come back anytime soon.
There just istn as big a modding scene anymore. Game design is becoming easier and easier, people that used to make peresistant world modules for NWN are now indie game developers.

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Originally Posted by Sordak
agreed, however i dont think the magic of NWN will come back anytime soon.
There just istn as big a modding scene anymore. Game design is becoming easier and easier, people that used to make peresistant world modules for NWN are now indie game developers.


With as much pleasantness as I can muster: You don't know what you're talking about.

With the release of NWN:EE the modding scene has exploded and there are *hundreds* of PWs currently hosted with thousands of players. NWN2 hasn't benefited from an EE version but still there are dozens of PWs still being run and maintained. CEP and the PRC have reformed and still building.

And the cardinal rule remains the same: You can never make content faster than someone can consume it. It's only untrue if you have a legion of modders working with your game adding content.

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I dont even disagree with you. But are you actually going to tell me im wrong?
the reason people still mod NWN1 and to a lesser degree NWN2 is because its realy easy. The graphics of NWN1 are extremely simple and the tileset approach to level design makes creating modules realy easy.

OS2 has great modding tools, much better ones than OS1 but you bareley see anyone actually use them. Modding games these days just is more of a hassle, creating new assets requires a level of skill that people who do this as a hobby quite frankly dont posess.
ive dabbled in 3D a bit myself, doing low poly indie tier stuff is easy, adding somehting to a game like OS2 which still isnt exactly Withcer 3... yeah forget about it.

The only modern games that get a lot of modding are stuff like Skyrim and Fallout.
the simpler the graphics and the more open the engine, the more modding you get. Thats why you still see tons of mods for NWN; Morrowind, mount and blade and so on. But bareley any for OS2.

Im not even trying to be a party pooper, i would love to see a return of peresistant worlds, as in my opinion they do RPG multiplayer the best, but i just dont see people doing it in modern games.

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DM Mode is a must have for me, NwN style dedicated servers would be a nice bonus, but without DM mode I won't even buy the game as I have very little interest in playing RPGs.


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GM mode was mostly unused in OS2.
Proper peresistant worlds however could lead to a lot of replay value and an extended life and for that alone i say have em.

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loudent Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Sordak
I dont even disagree with you. But are you actually going to tell me im wrong?


Yes
you said

Quote

There just istn as big a modding scene anymore


Industry wide the modding scene has never been bigger. If we're focusing just on the NWN1/2 BG1/2 series the fact that the EE version of NWN has invigorated the modding scene. Like I said CEP and PRC have reformed, hundreds of modules/PW are currently hosted. Maybe not the size of the golden ages but it certainly counts as a revival

and you said:

Quote
people that used to make peresistant world modules for NWN are now indie game developers.


Which is also not true (exhibited by yours truly). I don't want to make games, I want to build worlds. I still maintain a NWN2 PW and am toying around with building an NWN: EE world, but I have no interest in working in the gaming industry or to make games in general.

Quote

the reason people still mod NWN1 and to a lesser degree NWN2 is because its realy easy. The graphics of NWN1 are extremely simple and the tileset approach to level design makes creating modules realy easy.


Sure, "level design" is easy in NWN1 but there is more to modding/world building than slapping the tiles together. In many ways, that's the easiest part.

Quote

OS2 has great modding tools, much better ones than OS1 but you bareley see anyone actually use them. Modding games these days just is more of a hassle, creating new assets requires a level of skill that people who do this as a hobby quite frankly dont posess.


I have never modded OS2 so I can't speak to how good the tools are but the problem is in the game. If they had designed it where your characters were distinct a part from the same game and allows you to play through player made modules with your own characters. Even more if they had supported PWs I would have taken a look, but I think it's just too limited (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Quote

The only modern games that get a lot of modding are stuff like Skyrim and Fallout.
the simpler the graphics and the more open the engine, the more modding you get. Thats why you still see tons of mods for NWN; Morrowind, mount and blade and so on. But bareley any for OS2.


sure, Skyrim and Fallout get a lot of attention but there is a lot more modding support then you give credit for. More than half my steam games has a well stocked workshop and even games that don't have modding built in, often have a modding community for it. My point is I don't think modding has ever been more popular in general than right now.

Quote

Im not even trying to be a party pooper, i would love to see a return of peresistant worlds, as in my opinion they do RPG multiplayer the best, but i just dont see people doing it in modern games.


Well, you have your wish. Pick up NWN:EE (I think it's around ~$20.00) and there are hundreds of worlds (the EE version finally caught up with NWN2 in terms of having an autodownloader so you don't have to go fishing for PW assets). You can also pick up NWN2 and while there is a bit of work to get it up to date and the number of worlds is much smaller (and most are RP) you can still find a place to play

Last edited by loudent; 20/06/19 01:22 AM.
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i got both NWNs obviously, hence why i know about these thigns and like them.
I wish i could share your enthusiasm, i mean if they do it and it works im not gonna complain, but i wouldnt get my hopes up.
These types of things require a big playerbase interrested in modding to get rolling, once its established it tends to run itself.

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Yes, pretty much the reason I was excited to see Larian doing this is that Divinity Engine has already been going in the direction of the Aurora and Electron toolsets. I see it as a chance to finally get D&D back online again, and with 5e no less. It pumps me up.

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I also played NWN2 a lot, mostly because of mods and the 2 expansions.

I think Larian their work cut out from them, maybe we must post this threat into Beamdog forum, they made good work with NwN and the bg series.

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Beamdog did a terrible job with everything.
They added nothing, charge a way too high price, make it impossible to buy the originals without their awfull OC donut steel EEs and their expansion to Baldurs Gate was almost universally loathed.

I supposed NWN EE at least didnt break anything, but it also didnt add anything new.

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Originally Posted by Sordak
Beamdog did a terrible job with everything.
They added nothing, charge a way too high price, make it impossible to buy the originals without their awfull OC donut steel EEs and their expansion to Baldurs Gate was almost universally loathed.

I supposed NWN EE at least didnt break anything, but it also didnt add anything new.

HAHAHA. What a load.

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