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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by kanisatha
This is exactly so for me as well. I really don't get, and to be honest get irritated, when TB fans talk about positioning, and tactical this and that as though you can do those things only in TB. I do ALL of those tactical things in RTwP games, and I get to do it in RT with the enemies not making it child'splay for me by conveniently standing perfectly still while I position myself. RT/RTwP is what is truly tactically challenging. Being tactical in TB is cheese-easy.

Maybe it is just a matter of different tactics used when it's TB instead of RT. I just know that after so much RTwP saturation (e.g DA and ME), I never recall having the level of tactical control over a game like in DOS. For me, I think TB gives much more tactical control, but hey, others feel differently. It really might be nothing more than a matter of preference and style. Any commentary about how one or the other is dumbed-down, 'leet', cheesy, or whatever just seems juvenile, though.


You're totally right talking about tactical control that's better in TB.
That's why TB is easier... because you have a better control of the situations.

RT(wP) is way more chaotic and hard to play.

It looks 46% of players are going to be dissapointed with TB in BG3 while 54% are going to be happy. (Pc Gamer poll)

=> This is why they should do both. Don't really think Larian is big enough to forget the 46%.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 29/03/20 06:59 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by kanisatha
This is exactly so for me as well. I really don't get, and to be honest get irritated, when TB fans talk about positioning, and tactical this and that as though you can do those things only in TB. I do ALL of those tactical things in RTwP games, and I get to do it in RT with the enemies not making it child'splay for me by conveniently standing perfectly still while I position myself. RT/RTwP is what is truly tactically challenging. Being tactical in TB is cheese-easy.

Maybe it is just a matter of different tactics used when it's TB instead of RT. I just know that after so much RTwP saturation (e.g DA and ME), I never recall having the level of tactical control over a game like in DOS. For me, I think TB gives much more tactical control, but hey, others feel differently. It really might be nothing more than a matter of preference and style. Any commentary about how one or the other is dumbed-down, 'leet', cheesy, or whatever just seems juvenile, though.


You're totally right talking about tactical control that's better in TB.
That's why TB is easier... because you have a better control of the situations.

RT(wP) is way more chaotic and hard to play.

It looks 46% of players are going to be dissapointed with TB in BG3 while 54% are going to be happy. (Pc Gamer poll)

=> This is why they should do both. Don't really think Larian is big enough to forget the 46%.


Going off DOS games, I don't think RTwP would be too difficult to implement, because the ability timers are already in place (i.e the way skills have cooldowns outside of combat can be used in RT too I would think). But, BG3 is probably going to use a different system, so it's hard to say. I don't think 100% of the 46% won't play and enjoy BG3, but even so, yeah there is a market to be had, and if Larian deems the cost of going after it to be worth it, I am sure they will.

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I'm not entirely sure that's their philosophy and I don't think they're going to implement RTwP no matter what the costs and benefits are. They could have announced their chosen combat mode months ago and gauged feedback. Now their response is oh but we're too far along now to make any significant changes! That's not how a company genuinely interested in market analysis behaves. I suspect there are principles involved, maybe even pride and haughtiness.

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Originally Posted by korotama
I'm not entirely sure that's their philosophy and I don't think they're going to implement RTwP no matter what the costs and benefits are. They could have announced their chosen combat mode months ago and gauged feedback. Now their response is oh but we're too far along now to make any significant changes! That's not how a company genuinely interested in market analysis behaves. I suspect there are principles involved, maybe even pride and haughtiness.

I suspect there was never a question as to which way they would go (TB or RTwP). Some might then say, "well you should have told us," to which they might then reply "we just did." As for if they ever will implement it, perhaps not; but I doubt it would be out of disdain or indifference.

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Looks like Dragon age origins will forever be the ultimate game of tactical combat. DO:S combat is ok, but its not what 50% of us really want from this game. My guess is that there would be more people playing this game if it was RTwP than TB.

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Originally Posted by DurneFea
Looks like Dragon age origins will forever be the ultimate game of tactical combat. DO:S combat is ok, but its not what 50% of us really want from this game. My guess is that there would be more people playing this game if it was RTwP than TB.

That was a great game. I think RTwP was the reason I ended up playing it without any companions, though. Also, I have seen three polls on the matter, and every one gave a slight edge to people who would prefer TB for this game; so it looks like

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How come you played Dragon Age Origins without companions? They're a huge part of the game imo! Origins to me is some of the best RTWP out there. I'd spend just a little bit of time setting up AI scripts for the companions, and then I let them manage themselves for 90% of the time, just controlling my player character. I'd micro-manage my player character, but not to the extent of having to pause every 3 seconds. And I'd only have to switch to controlling AI companions only rarely, when the s**t really was hitting the fan. There was a nice flow to the battles, it all felt like it had a good pace and still being difficult and tactical enough for me. As I recall, I played on the second highest difficulty. Good times! I really feel that Bioware did a great job with Origins in this regard (and many others), and I couldn't have asked for a better game to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Unfortunately combat (amongst other things) felt like it regressed in DA 2 and Inquisition, compared to Origins.

I don't think it says a lot that polls are generally in a slight favour for TB (or if it had been RTWP), I think the telling thing is you got roughly 45% of people that want something else. That's a tough situation for Larian, having almost half (according to polls, the most precise and perfect instrument of knowledge in the universe) of the playerbase already set against them and needed to be turned around & convinced/impressed. Larian's gonna have to deliver their best work yet, under more scrutiny than I'd imagine they've ever faced before.

I doubt Larian has come up against this kind of pressure before, this kind of hype and expectations from fans/players. But if they wanted less of all that, they would've named their game something else. I got a feeling they'll rise to the occasion.

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Originally Posted by CPT_SLOW
How come you played Dragon Age Origins without companions? They're a huge part of the game imo! Origins to me is some of the best RTWP out there. I'd spend just a little bit of time setting up AI scripts for the companions, and then I let them manage themselves for 90% of the time, just controlling my player character. I'd micro-manage my player character, but not to the extent of having to pause every 3 seconds. And I'd only have to switch to controlling AI companions only rarely, when the s**t really was hitting the fan. There was a nice flow to the battles, it all felt like it had a good pace and still being difficult and tactical enough for me. As I recall, I played on the second highest difficulty. Good times! I really feel that Bioware did a great job with Origins in this regard (and many others), and I couldn't have asked for a better game to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Unfortunately combat (amongst other things) felt like it regressed in DA 2 and Inquisition, compared to Origins.

I don't think it says a lot that polls are generally in a slight favour for TB (or if it had been RTWP), I think the telling thing is you got roughly 45% of people that want something else. That's a tough situation for Larian, having almost half (according to polls, the most precise and perfect instrument of knowledge in the universe) of the playerbase already set against them and needed to be turned around & convinced/impressed. Larian's gonna have to deliver their best work yet, under more scrutiny than I'd imagine they've ever faced before.

I doubt Larian has come up against this kind of pressure before, this kind of hype and expectations from fans/players. But if they wanted less of all that, they would've named their game something else. I got a feeling they'll rise to the occasion.

Honestly, I don't really remember. I know I did play with companions somewhat, but I recall doing most of it alone. It very well might have been the RTwP combat, which can make me want to just not bother with companions. Plus, I like the challenge of playing with one character sometimes.

Yeah, roughly 50 one way or the other doesn't make much difference. But I don't think everyone in those two groups is so adamantly opposed to the other. Most will play either or both.

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For the case of TB vs RTwP , I personally think both were great combat mechanics, but Larian has huge experience for Turn Based combat and I think they should keep at it.
Some suggest why not try TB and RTwP both. Yes it may be possible but it will be time consuming. I suggest the game should be released with Turn based combat mechanics. Later the RTwP mode can be added for satisfying the die hard RTwP fans.

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Originally Posted by SohamK90
For the case of TB vs RTwP , I personally think both were great combat mechanics, but Larian has huge experience for Turn Based combat and I think they should keep at it.
Some suggest why not try TB and RTwP both. Yes it may be possible but it will be time consuming. I suggest the game should be released with Turn based combat mechanics. Later the RTwP mode can be added for satisfying the die hard RTwP fans.

They've made action RPGs too. What's the rush? Economic forecasts aren't very peachy right now.

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Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by SohamK90
For the case of TB vs RTwP , I personally think both were great combat mechanics, but Larian has huge experience for Turn Based combat and I think they should keep at it.
Some suggest why not try TB and RTwP both. Yes it may be possible but it will be time consuming. I suggest the game should be released with Turn based combat mechanics. Later the RTwP mode can be added for satisfying the die hard RTwP fans.

They've made action RPGs too. What's the rush? Economic forecasts aren't very peachy right now.


Perhaps because they have spent quite a lot of money on BG3 already, and built up a much larger studio they have to support or dissolve? Depends how deep their pockets are, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by SohamK90
For the case of TB vs RTwP , I personally think both were great combat mechanics, but Larian has huge experience for Turn Based combat and I think they should keep at it.
Some suggest why not try TB and RTwP both. Yes it may be possible but it will be time consuming. I suggest the game should be released with Turn based combat mechanics. Later the RTwP mode can be added for satisfying the die hard RTwP fans.

They've made action RPGs too. What's the rush? Economic forecasts aren't very peachy right now.


Perhaps because they have spent quite a lot of money on BG3 already, and built up a much larger studio they have to support or dissolve? Depends how deep their pockets are, I suppose.


Well, if it's being rushed out the door, lol I feel bad for the team. At least it can't be worse than that Duke Nuke'em game. Hopefully not.

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Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by SohamK90
For the case of TB vs RTwP , I personally think both were great combat mechanics, but Larian has huge experience for Turn Based combat and I think they should keep at it.
Some suggest why not try TB and RTwP both. Yes it may be possible but it will be time consuming. I suggest the game should be released with Turn based combat mechanics. Later the RTwP mode can be added for satisfying the die hard RTwP fans.

They've made action RPGs too. What's the rush? Economic forecasts aren't very peachy right now.


Perhaps because they have spent quite a lot of money on BG3 already, and built up a much larger studio they have to support or dissolve? Depends how deep their pockets are, I suppose.


Well, if it's being rushed out the door, lol I feel bad for the team. At least it can't be worse than that Duke Nuke'em game. Hopefully not.

It's not gonna be a "Bad" game they are a very capable studio from what ive seen. And i didnt get a "Rushed out the door" feeling in their last game- but only time will tell.

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What if Baldur's Gate 3 had the same battle mechanics as Divinity 2 : Dragon Knight Saga? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by VeganCookie
What if Baldur's Gate 3 had the same battle mechanics as Divinity 2 : Dragon Knight Saga? Just a thought.

Just a hope in my case. biggrin

That was controversial enough at the time, though.


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I can deal with turn-based stuff, but I like being able to pause better.

Overall, in difficult battles, I feel the tension more that way. The confusion, the chaos, the lack of a feeling of order--it feels more realistic to me. Less gamey, more immersive.

It's also the way the previous two games played, so if they can make it work, I'd strongly prefer active pause.

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Originally Posted by CPT_SLOW
How come you played Dragon Age Origins without companions? They're a huge part of the game imo! Origins to me is some of the best RTWP out there. I'd spend just a little bit of time setting up AI scripts for the companions, and then I let them manage themselves for 90% of the time, just controlling my player character. I'd micro-manage my player character, but not to the extent of having to pause every 3 seconds. And I'd only have to switch to controlling AI companions only rarely, when the s**t really was hitting the fan. There was a nice flow to the battles, it all felt like it had a good pace and still being difficult and tactical enough for me. As I recall, I played on the second highest difficulty. Good times! I really feel that Bioware did a great job with Origins in this regard (and many others), and I couldn't have asked for a better game to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Unfortunately combat (amongst other things) felt like it regressed in DA 2 and Inquisition, compared to Origins.

I don't think it says a lot that polls are generally in a slight favour for TB (or if it had been RTWP), I think the telling thing is you got roughly 45% of people that want something else. That's a tough situation for Larian, having almost half (according to polls, the most precise and perfect instrument of knowledge in the universe) of the playerbase already set against them and needed to be turned around & convinced/impressed. Larian's gonna have to deliver their best work yet, under more scrutiny than I'd imagine they've ever faced before.

I doubt Larian has come up against this kind of pressure before, this kind of hype and expectations from fans/players. But if they wanted less of all that, they would've named their game something else. I got a feeling they'll rise to the occasion.


To be fair most of these polls don't show how inflexible those who prefer TB or RTwP are. I think for both those who prefer TB and those who prefer RTwP there is a large chunk where it being the opposite of what they prefer is not a deal breaker.

That being said I support their being both modes, but it's not up to me and Larian has reasons for their choices.

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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
To be fair most of these polls don't show how inflexible those who prefer TB or RTwP are.


You mean, flexible? If so, then, I agree.

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Yeah I don't think that by itself it is a deal breaker for -that- many people, I'm sure most people are somewhat flexible one way or the other. I -do- think it might play a big part of BG 3 struggling with its legacy and changing identity.

What I mean to say is, the combat system might be a significant part of a whole, that creates the "deal breaker" (or disappointment, or alienation of old fans, or whatever).

Because the game is TB, I think it becomes extra important that Larian separates BG3 from the DOS games in other ways. Here comes the vague terms: atmosphere, visuals, audio, UI, writing/narrative, and other parts of game design outside of combat mechanics.

Because if they don't do that, they could've just named their game -anything- other than BG3. It'll just mean it was a pure marketing move with zero artistic vision, and as BG fan that just sucks.

I hope it being TB will contribute to great combat as part of a great game, but I also hope that it being TB won't contribute to a series of reasons why this game will (hypothetically) fail to live up to its legacy. These 2 "outcomes" are not mutually exclusive.


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also remember that being vocally disappointed about the change doesn't make the change a deal breaker.

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