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There is something I don't get.
BG was actually playable as a Turn-based game.
You just had to put th option "automatic pause each round" and... kind of a turn-based !

As a EA gamers I feel cheated. Not because I buy the game thinking "I want RTwP !!!" but because I buy the game thinking "Larian said it's gonna be BG3 in turn-base and if it's BG3, Im' cool with turn-based".
I played DoS 1 and 2, wasteland 2 and 3, Heroes of might and magic 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, fire emblem (3 or 4 of them), vikings expedition, final fantasy tactics, ETC ETC ETC.

So I played A LOT of turn-based games.
But when I played BG3 EA.... It didn't work. As Gaidax said, turn-base is cool but in BG3 there is this fights which are long, unchallenging, boring, fastidious... So hear me, Larian can keep his turn-based system as long as I can enjoy BG3 as I enjoy his predecessor : for his story and for his fights ! But keeping turn-base system just because "they say they would keep it" it's a mistake, intellectually, it's a big fail.

Here is how I see Larian (which I trusted once) for now :

" - hey guys. We are going to do BG3 ! And we are going to do it as a turn-base game because turn-based roxx !!! Ok ?
- So we totally forgot about the real time fights ?
- Dude ! Forget about real times. We love turn-based so it's gonna be turn-based !
- But will it be good ? We won't have a problem with the really large fights and the weak encounters ?
- Who cares ! We did turn-based games, so we'll do it again ! Because this is how we do things !
- Sure, but... are you not worried the fights against more than 10 ennemies takes years ? Or the fights again very weak ennemies becomes very boring ?
- Shut up Bobby ! It's gonna be turn-based ! And if you are dat worried, we'll never put more than 5 ennemies and that's all !
- But what if we really need to have more than 5 ennemies ?
- I don't care Bobby ! Gamers will have to wait !
- Are you sure all the gamers want to wait for some useless fights to end ?
- I DONT CARE BOBBY I AM DOING THE GAME I WANT TO DO !!!
- But the previous games...
- You're fired Bobby.
- ...meh. "

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr
There is something I don't get.
BG was actually playable as a Turn-based game.
You just had to put th option "automatic pause each round" and... kind of a turn-based !

As a EA gamers I feel cheated. Not because I buy the game thinking "I want RTwP !!!" but because I buy the game thinking "Larian said it's gonna be BG3 in turn-base and if it's BG3, Im' cool with turn-based".
I played DoS 1 and 2, wasteland 2 and 3, Heroes of might and magic 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, fire emblem (3 or 4 of them), vikings expedition, final fantasy tactics, ETC ETC ETC.

So I played A LOT of turn-based games.
But when I played BG3 EA.... It didn't work. As Gaidax said, turn-base is cool but in BG3 there is this fights which are long, unchallenging, boring, fastidious... So hear me, Larian can keep his turn-based system as long as I can enjoy BG3 as I enjoy his predecessor : for his story and for his fights ! But keeping turn-base system just because "they say they would keep it" it's a mistake, intellectually, it's a big fail.

Here is how I see Larian (which I trusted once) for now :

" - hey guys. We are going to do BG3 ! And we are going to do it as a turn-base game because turn-based roxx !!! Ok ?
- So we totally forgot about the real time fights ?
- Dude ! Forget about real times. We love turn-based so it's gonna be turn-based !
- But will it be good ? We won't have a problem with the really large fights and the weak encounters ?
- Who cares ! We did turn-based games, so we'll do it again ! Because this is how we do things !
- Sure, but... are you not worried the fights against more than 10 ennemies takes years ? Or the fights again very weak ennemies becomes very boring ?
- Shut up Bobby ! It's gonna be turn-based ! And if you are dat worried, we'll never put more than 5 ennemies and that's all !
- But what if we really need to have more than 5 ennemies ?
- I don't care Bobby ! Gamers will have to wait !
- Are you sure all the gamers want to wait for some useless fights to end ?
- I DONT CARE BOBBY I AM DOING THE GAME I WANT TO DO !!!
- But the previous games...
- You're fired Bobby.
- ...meh. "

I get that you feel cheated, I don't get why


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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You don't get why ?
Because this game didn't hold his promises.

When I heard Sven said "it's gonna be TB cause it's more strategic" I thought "Its pretentious but I don't care as long as I get BG3" and by BG3 I mean BG3, a successor for BG1, 2 and ToB. Not a copy/past, not the exactly same game, but the same feeling.

So I thought "It's Larian, they did a good game "DoS", it looks like they are passionate, looks like they really want to do this game and looks like they are trustworthy."

And, this game isn't BG3 and I know, people will came and say "it's a feeling, it's your problem" but I strongly disagree.

The feeling to play BG is not "my problem", it's the Larian's problem. It's their job and even more, their promise.

Why it doesn't feel like BG... There is a lot of thread which explain it really clearly.

The sadiest thing here is that there are people who defend the game saying "the game is good ! who cares if it's not BG3 !"
Well, we should all care. Because if we don't care that BG3 feels like BG3 it means we don't care about honesty and trust? It means we don't care about lies and breach of trust, worse it means we support them.

I never asked Larian to do BG3, I never asked them to promess me to do it.
They did it all on their own.
And I trust them.
This is why I feel cheated.


When I look at BG3, I just see DOS. The TB fights (which are different here and so work not as good as in DOS), the humor (this goblins saying "come on chickychicken" feels so much like DOS humor and so far from the warcry from BG), the companions who have all an amazing background and are all so important when I feel so common (where is the childhood friend, warrior in learning process, crazy halfling and fugitive drow. And why I'm no more the main character), the all-talkative crap (goblins talks, mushrooms talks, everybody talk and I can side with everybody), the weak dialogues writting (sry but sometimes it's just too narrow or too absurd...), the fights too often long and long and so long for no reason (I enjoyed long fights, cf fire emblem)
There are just few things coming to my mind at the moment...

As I said, some people resume far better than me the differences who makes that BG3 is missing his point.

I hope that you know get why I feel cheated and why Larian just is passing in my mind to the "trustworthy Devs" to the "get the cash Devs".
And I'm not saying it happily but it's their own fault.

I was sad before BG3 thinking it will never exist. I am doubly sad now, knowing BG3 will never exist in another form than a name on another game to get easy cash.

But maybe I'm wrong, maybe in one month or I don't know when, Larian will make an update and said they failed at some points and do the necessary adjusments.

For now, I quit the enjoyment of the game and I would like people to understand why and share my indignation in front of this actual failed promise.

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I hate DoS and I think Turn-per-Turn is the way to go for a DnD game.

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr
You don't get why ?
Because this game didn't hold his promises.

When I heard Sven said "it's gonna be TB cause it's more strategic" I thought "Its pretentious but I don't care as long as I get BG3" and by BG3 I mean BG3, a successor for BG1, 2 and ToB. Not a copy/past, not the exactly same game, but the same feeling.

So I thought "It's Larian, they did a good game "DoS", it looks like they are passionate, looks like they really want to do this game and looks like they are trustworthy."

And, this game isn't BG3 and I know, people will came and say "it's a feeling, it's your problem" but I strongly disagree.

The feeling to play BG is not "my problem", it's the Larian's problem. It's their job and even more, their promise.

Why it doesn't feel like BG... There is a lot of thread which explain it really clearly.

The sadiest thing here is that there are people who defend the game saying "the game is good ! who cares if it's not BG3 !"
Well, we should all care. Because if we don't care that BG3 feels like BG3 it means we don't care about honesty and trust? It means we don't care about lies and breach of trust, worse it means we support them.

I never asked Larian to do BG3, I never asked them to promess me to do it.
They did it all on their own.
And I trust them.
This is why I feel cheated.


When I look at BG3, I just see DOS. The TB fights (which are different here and so work not as good as in DOS), the humor (this goblins saying "come on chickychicken" feels so much like DOS humor and so far from the warcry from BG), the companions who have all an amazing background and are all so important when I feel so common (where is the childhood friend, warrior in learning process, crazy halfling and fugitive drow. And why I'm no more the main character), the all-talkative crap (goblins talks, mushrooms talks, everybody talk and I can side with everybody), the weak dialogues writting (sry but sometimes it's just too narrow or too absurd...), the fights too often long and long and so long for no reason (I enjoyed long fights, cf fire emblem)
There are just few things coming to my mind at the moment...

As I said, some people resume far better than me the differences who makes that BG3 is missing his point.

I hope that you know get why I feel cheated and why Larian just is passing in my mind to the "trustworthy Devs" to the "get the cash Devs".
And I'm not saying it happily but it's their own fault.

I was sad before BG3 thinking it will never exist. I am doubly sad now, knowing BG3 will never exist in another form than a name on another game to get easy cash.

But maybe I'm wrong, maybe in one month or I don't know when, Larian will make an update and said they failed at some points and do the necessary adjusments.

For now, I quit the enjoyment of the game and I would like people to understand why and share my indignation in front of this actual failed promise.




well, the topic of this discussion is RTwP. If you feel cheated about that, you really shouldn't. about the other things I prefer not to comment for the sake of not derailing the discussion further


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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I don't mind turn-based in games where the turns are interesting. In D:OS you could often use multiple spells/abilities per turn. In BG3, with very few exceptions, you only get one action per turn and then a bonus action that's often unspent because you don't necessarily have a good use for it. Turn-based combat feels really dull when 90% of your turns are just "click on the enemy to attack." It's fine in tabletop because there's so much more to combat than just choosing a target to swing/shoot at, but in a single player video game it's simply tedious. This game's combat is totally bereft of tension and excitement.

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Well, I answered your question.
I feel cheated concerning TB considering it fails to provide a good feeling in BG3.
I completely agree with Clawfoot

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Do you know what is the meaning of the word "cheated"? and I don't mean it in the postmodern way, just the regular text book definition.

Last edited by Abits; 01/11/20 10:46 AM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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I thinks so yeah, thx you even if english isn't my native langage.
As I said, I feel cheated concerning TB considering it fails to provide a good feeling in BG3.
I didn't say I feel cheated because they choose TB and I knew they announced it.
I said I feel cheated because using TB fails to provide a BG3 feelings which was their MAIN promise.

I see no problem here. You can think I'm wrong about TB not feeling like BG but no need to ask me about my knowledge of the definition of cheated.

I still take a look at the english definition since you seems to question my knowledge.
Heer is what I found "1.act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage."
WellI found it "dishonest" to promise a BG-game "in order to take advantage" of my love for this serie and at the same time implementing a TB which greatly participate to make this game NOT feeling like BG"
So yep, TB as it is now makes me feel cheated, definitely and again not because it's turned base but because it failed the promise of a BG-game feeling.

But maybe I'm completely wrong since english isn't my native langage.
If that's the case your way of dealing with it is awfull.
If you didn't understand me (what I doubt), ask me te rephrase or ask me what I mean exactly.
If you understand me despite of mistakes, correct me in a nice way.
But if the only thing you are able to do is question my knowledge of the word.... it's just a mean and a bit pretentious way to have a debate which show you are not really open to my arguments but more focus on winning a point.
It's a bad habit, pretty common sadly.

I will try to rephrase anyway.

Larian PROMISE me BG3
Larian choose arbitrarily TB saying it would be great.
TB doesn't feel like BG (and isn't even dat great here)
So I feel like they take advantage of my love for the serie to get my money (and even more, to promote TB ("youhou look at all this people buying BG3EA" is a typical argument in the forum...) despite of BG).

Call it as you want, cheated, betrayed, fucked, I don't really care. I am pretty sure you get it but you just prefer question my english proficiency than accept my words. It's childish and not constructive.


Sinon je te propose de continuer en français. Si ça ne te va pas, ce serait sympa de ta part de faire un effort pour me comprendre plutôt que de t'amuser à pinailler sur le sens exact de tel ou tel mot que j'aurais mal utilisé. Ce genre de commentaire sont assez peu constructifs au bout d'un moment (notamment lorsque l'on a compris ce que l'autre veut dire). Ils sont constructifs si tu corriges gentiment ton interlocuteur ou si tu l'interroges sur le sens exact de ce qu'il voulait dire, pas si tu te contentes de remettre en questions ses capacités à communiquer dans le seul but de décrédibiliser son propos.

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if the game turn into an RTwP , I hope they will start issuing refund regardless of playtime.
unless all they do is ADD RTwP as an option.

I bought and I wanted a TB game.
since dnd is turn base. it's a dream come true for me.

Last edited by Evil_it_Self; 01/11/20 12:51 PM.

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr

Sinon je te propose de continuer en français. Si ça ne te va pas, ce serait sympa de ta part de faire un effort pour me comprendre plutôt que de t'amuser à pinailler sur le sens exact de tel ou tel mot que j'aurais mal utilisé. Ce genre de commentaire sont assez peu constructifs au bout d'un moment (notamment lorsque l'on a compris ce que l'autre veut dire). Ils sont constructifs si tu corriges gentiment ton interlocuteur ou si tu l'interroges sur le sens exact de ce qu'il voulait dire, pas si tu te contentes de remettre en questions ses capacités à communiquer dans le seul but de décrédibiliser son propos.



On se calme mon gar XD Et tu parles plutot bien anglais pour un frenchie, tkt.

Originally Posted by Abits
Do you know what is the meaning of the word "cheated"? and I don't mean it in the postmodern way, just the regular text book definition.


You both should slow down. Like really, it's not a question of the used words but of what he tries to say. "Cheated" etc yeah that's definitely too much considering the context.

But his point stands, that is BG3 is quite far from BG ^^ The gameplay difference provided by current implementation of TB being one of the reasons.


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Yeah sry.

I guess it's time for me to retreat.

I spent a lot of times on the forums. I met really interesting guys with a nice and moderate attitude.
But I also met too often lot of guys (not necesseraly speaking of Abits here) who came in many threads giving the same statements without even hearing, having the will to hear the answers given.

So yep, as I ask for a refund (first time ever), I'm just gonna see where all of this will end.
For now, it feels pointless and I must still lack some patience at dealing with adults sadly ^^"
I will still roam around for the pleasure to read some of you (Orbax, kanishata, virion, etc) but I'll try to keep my words for me (I know I wont completely succeed) and save my energy.

I guess my annoyance is correlated to my deception.

Merci virion, je ne sais pas si "cheated" était le bon mot. Il semblerait que non. En français, je dirais que je me sens arnaqué par Larian. Ils ont vendu de la passion et une volonté de faire une suite à la hauteur de ses prédécesseurs et j'y ai sincèrement cru. J'ai voulu y croire.
Mais après avoir joué et rejoué, et seulement après ça, je n'y crois guère plus. Ça sera sans doute un bon jeu (sympathique au minimum) mais ça ne prend définitivement pas le chemin d'un BG3.
Et le TB n'aide pas car il ralentit tout et, après avoir testé, ce n'est vraiment pas la même chose. Dur de trouver une comparaison mais c'est un peu comme si le football devenait du TB, ce ne serait définitivement pas la même chose.

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If he feels "xy" then he feels, we buy games because of how we feel about them. It's probably not a case of fraud.

Turn based for me is when characters take turns and not when certain amounts of actions happen within 6 seconds. BG is more round based than turn based. Ah semantics weird


BG3 is fine right now, it could look and feel better in our heads as we imagine bg1+2 in glorious 3d and call it BG3. And I think that's what we are getting, it's just unrefined now.

I would prefer the "turn based with pause" at the moment but after having played Bard's Tale as well as Pathfinder Kingmaker turn based, I_know_that either system can work. I couldn't see Bard's Tale any other way but I think that Pathfinder Kingmaker isn't meant to be turn based for me.

As it is, the turns take too long. And that's kind of it. Pathfinder Kingmaker's combat takes twice as long turn based as well(with the mod, haven't played it a 3rd time with the native turn based option).

If we had tbwp then BG3 would be too chaotic for most players. So I hope that BG3 fixes turn based and delivers what Baldur's Gate always was, a great series which served as a great entry to both DnD and CRPG.

What's funny is when going to the inventory in BG3 the game doesn't pause, just like in the original grin

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The glitches with saves are really killing the turn based argument for me.

I fight through my 4 vs 4 rows of mobs in turn base. finally beat it save, go to sleep load game later and I have to redo the me vs 16 fight UGH
and half the ai guys are "plotting their next move'' it gets really fricking annoying. how about giving us an option for choosing to RTwP after the first Turn based segment happens.

Sometimes the turn based is just unbearable, feels like 5 of the 20 hrs is waiting for npc's to make up their ai minds.


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Without reading all posts...'cause i can imagine a great deal of that discussion...i will always ask myself why gettting a game with TB combat and then wanting RT combat. Just because the older BG's titles were RT?

Personally i was more than happy seeing BG3 is getting TB.

There will always be people liking RT ove TB and that's to be excepted but it is the choice of the publisher/developer.

We are still in EA so it is also to be excepted that there are issues with the combat system as with the rest of the game. There are TONS of issues (even if it runs already better than most bethesda releases ;)).

Give. Them. Time.

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It is the Divinity engine people. This engine cannot and will never be capable of RTWP. Get over it. It is the engine they are using and it is a turn based engine. Please stop suggesting this that the game engine cannot do. This also goes for the 6 man party. This engine cannot do 6 man parties. It is a limitation of the engine and no amount of whinning about it will change it.

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Originally Posted by Dreygor6091
It is the Divinity engine people. This engine cannot and will never be capable of RTWP. Get over it. It is the engine they are using and it is a turn based engine. Please stop suggesting this that the game engine cannot do. This also goes for the 6 man party. This engine cannot do 6 man parties. It is a limitation of the engine and no amount of whinning about it will change it.

This is just silly stuff. There's no such limitations.

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I think the game should stay truer to D&D 5e for better and worse. I think the DOS style turn based combat with the D&D mechanics is great.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Dreygor6091
It is the Divinity engine people. This engine cannot and will never be capable of RTWP. Get over it. It is the engine they are using and it is a turn based engine. Please stop suggesting this that the game engine cannot do. This also goes for the 6 man party. This engine cannot do 6 man parties. It is a limitation of the engine and no amount of whinning about it will change it.

This is just silly stuff. There's no such limitations.



No it is not silly stuff. You cannot turn the unreal engine (Unreal tournement engine) into the aurora engine (NWN engine). Just like you cannot turn this engine into the infinity engine. They all have limitations on what they are capable of. They sure as hell not going to make an entirely new engine to make the game.

Last edited by Dreygor6091; 03/11/20 04:10 AM.
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Originally Posted by Ole Draco
I think the game should stay truer to D&D 5e for better and worse. I think the DOS style turn based combat with the D&D mechanics is great.


I confirm. I will send the simultaneous ai thing in feedback compendium though cause i have to say it would be bonkers after me. At least on paper it sounds cool.
In general i think the outcome of this topic is TB could be faster and there are ways to do it without dropping it.


Especially RTwP in multiplayer even with pause on round is unplayable in BG2 ^^ Apparently the round is ....per character. The pause activates itself constantly every 1 second 6 times in a row, leave you 3 seconds of gameplay and you're back to a pause - fest.

For singleplayer it could be considered, i guess.


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