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I have been thinking a third option, of gameplay, myself, that it could be "real-time with " optional turn-based, combat system. like the "forced turn base model used in stealth. I think that would feel more like Baldur's gate like the gameplay but still allow real-time like decisions. like in a true turn-based game." allowing best of two worlds. Turns in D&D combat and the realistic environment interaction time advancement in 6 seconds.

I have played the BG originals and mostly that real time combat led to constant manual pausing the game manually each turn...
Turn-based is "working but its' slow and tedious in large battles". What if it's a turn-based but works like in "real-time" like that forced turn interaction? That would. Be turn-based but still have some real-time combat feel to it?

Last edited by AranSIRE; 03/11/20 03:04 PM.
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I'd also like to echo what others have said here - if they take resources away from making the game and instead allocate those resources to RTwP I'll be pissed.

Also as others have said, 5e lends itself to turn based. Saying this isn't a Baldurs Gate game is quite simply, dumb. I think the only people saying that are those who don't play D&D. And just a a reminder - Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 were D&D games, based on the current system at the time. No different here.

I think the RTwP advocacy needs to just die. This type if feedback is utterly useless because you just want a different game. Day9 made a great video about this recently, I think everyone advocating for a different game should probably check it out 😊

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Real time pause system is suck, ı hate it. So thats all ı just hate it. Doesn't present real strategic movements in fight.

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I played the original series with auto-pause selected for everything. It was basically like playing a turn based here. For Baldur's Gate 3, I would just be happy with a workable player controlled pause. No, Escape doesn't pause everything. No, turn based mode doesn't pause everything. For reasons that baffle me, they've created the Divinity engine and refuse to update it to allow any player controlled pausing. Modders aren't even able to fix this.

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Originally Posted by NooBiaN
I think the RTwP advocacy needs to just die. This type if feedback is utterly useless because you just want a different game. Day9 made a great video about this recently, I think everyone advocating for a different game should probably check it out 😊

Nah. I'll keep loudly arguing for it. You don't get to tell me what I should or shouldn't do.
Originally Posted by Fikoley
Real time pause system is suck, ı hate it. So thats all ı just hate it. Doesn't present real strategic movements in fight.

Haha. Right. Everyone except one character is standing still and frozen, and that is "strategic movement"? LOL TB represents a static battlefield. RT(wP) represents a dynamic battlefield. Dynamic is always superior to static.

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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Without reading all posts...'cause i can imagine a great deal of that discussion...i will always ask myself why gettting a game with TB combat and then wanting RT combat. Just because the older BG's titles were RT?

Personally i was more than happy seeing BG3 is getting TB.

There will always be people liking RT ove TB and that's to be expected but it is the choice of the publisher/developer.

We are still in EA so it is also to be expected that there are issues with the combat system as with the rest of the game. There are TONS of issues (even if it runs already better than most bethesda releases ;)).

Give. Them. Time.



Agree 100%. I love the TB aspect of it, but I also play pen and paper. I don't mind the length of battles, because it give me time to consider how I'm going to react to the moves and attacks that the enemy just made. There are some suggested changes I would like to see, but those are in other posts. In regards to this discussion, I purchased the game (in EA) with the expectation that it was going to be turn based, and that is exactly what I got. Larian was completely up front with that fact.

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I my opinion the fundamental difference between Turn Based and Real-Time Combat advocates is.

Turn Based Combat Players like to play "perfect", dice Roll are not their failure.
They play every Partymember like the own Char.
People which move the Characters in triple Steps for max Range advantage 3m forwars,
oh shit 1m back and are angry when they give away 1m.
For this type of players, an Encounter is like a Puzzle and deploy the right peace every Turn the perfect solution.


Realtime Combat Players Accept more Human Failures in the execution.
They have less problems with automated actions which considered Instant Actions like AoO, deflect arrows or intercept enemys.
They Play to command the Party as a Leader via "Shouts" and every "Pause" is a unwanted interruption. A.I Scripts for Partymembers, Protect Rules etc. are all welcome.
The "perfect" play is a Combat handled with Command Shouts only without to go into Pause Mode and "jump" into a Partymember head.









Last edited by Caparino; 04/11/20 05:29 PM.
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Personally I prefer the turn-by-turn combat in BG3 over previous BG games. It gives me hard start and end of turn points in time, which lets me spend more time planning combat tactics instead of just letting the combat play out on its own. With the old pause system, it felt like I sometimes had no control over characters as they'd start doing their own thing after I gave commands. I know that you could tweak this, but why go through all of that hassle when turn-based combat eliminates that specific headache?

Last edited by ciph; 04/11/20 08:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by NooBiaN
I think the RTwP advocacy needs to just die. This type if feedback is utterly useless because you just want a different game. Day9 made a great video about this recently, I think everyone advocating for a different game should probably check it out 😊

Nah. I'll keep loudly arguing for it. You don't get to tell me what I should or shouldn't do.
Originally Posted by Fikoley
Real time pause system is suck, ı hate it. So thats all ı just hate it. Doesn't present real strategic movements in fight.

Haha. Right. Everyone except one character is standing still and frozen, and that is "strategic movement"? LOL TB represents a static battlefield. RT(wP) represents a dynamic battlefield. Dynamic is always superior to static.



Keep arguing for it, but it is quite literally the most meaningless type of feedback. You're advocating for a different game. If turn based game play isn't your thing then this game isn't for you chief.

If Larian are half as good a developer as I believe them to be they would ignore this entire 80 page whinge fest of people crying out that they didn't make the game they wanted.

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I already bought BG3 and am playing it in Early Access. I really like the turn-based battles in BG3. This is the best solution. Allows you to strategize in battles.
I don't want active pause to replace turn-based battles in BG3. It scares me. Active pause is inconvenient and interferes with strategic battles. I’m afraid that instead of thinking through the strategy, I will not be able to hit the spacebar in time.
If the game adds the ability to choose between turn-based combat and active pause, then most likely I will not use the active pause. However, this option does not hurt.

Last edited by Strix; 07/11/20 05:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by Dreygor6091
It is the Divinity engine people. This engine cannot and will never be capable of RTWP. Get over it. It is the engine they are using and it is a turn based engine. Please stop suggesting this that the game engine cannot do. This also goes for the 6 man party. This engine cannot do 6 man parties. It is a limitation of the engine and no amount of whinning about it will change it.



If there were limitations in the engine, as you describe - Divinity II modders wouldn't be able to change those aspects of the game. Divinity II there are mods to increase the party size, and there are mods to change from turn-based to real-time combat. Dreygor is right, there are no such limitations.

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Originally Posted by NooBiaN
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by NooBiaN
I think the RTwP advocacy needs to just die. This type if feedback is utterly useless because you just want a different game. Day9 made a great video about this recently, I think everyone advocating for a different game should probably check it out 😊

Nah. I'll keep loudly arguing for it. You don't get to tell me what I should or shouldn't do.
Originally Posted by Fikoley
Real time pause system is suck, ı hate it. So thats all ı just hate it. Doesn't present real strategic movements in fight.

Haha. Right. Everyone except one character is standing still and frozen, and that is "strategic movement"? LOL TB represents a static battlefield. RT(wP) represents a dynamic battlefield. Dynamic is always superior to static.



Keep arguing for it, but it is quite literally the most meaningless type of feedback. You're advocating for a different game. If turn based game play isn't your thing then this game isn't for you chief.

If Larian are half as good a developer as I believe them to be they would ignore this entire 80 page whinge fest of people crying out that they didn't make the game they wanted.



"Quite literally" huh? I don't think you know what "literally" means.

It's not useless feedback, by any means. And adding such a feature isn't going to make it a "different game". By saying that, you're essentially saying the game is completely defined by its combat mechanic, and that would be an extremely absurd notion. Turn-based combat is tedious and boring. Though I can tolerate it if the game is good enough, which Divinity II was, and Baldur's Gate III will be. But there is no real excitement or chaos in turn-based combat. As for those arguing that real-time is less strategic; that's not true. Real-time with pause combat causes you to make decisions a lot more carefully, because making the wrong decisions can get you killed since everything happens in real-time and not on a turn-by-turn basis. If you screw up one turn in turn-based combat, you get a chance to correct your mistake in the next turn. You screw up with real-time with pause? You might have to re-load your last saved game. You have to act more quickly which creates a better challenge and causes you to have to strategize very carefully during the initial encounter once it pauses.

Additionally, we're not asking them to replace the turn-based combat with real-time with pause combat. We're asking for them to add it as an additional feature, just like the makers of Pillars of Eternity II added a turn-based option in addition to their real-time with pause, and who was operating on a lot smaller budget. So I am not sure why you guys are so vehemently against this and even offended by people requesting it, as if it is going to impact your ability to play turn-based. It's not. You criticize those requesting this feature as "whining" and saying it's "meaningless feedback" but you're whining about people requesting something that would have no real impact on you whatsoever, if it were implemented. That is ironic. The company could, potentially, bring in more revenue if they added this feature. So the feedback isn't useless. I can't stand people who are against adding additional features that wouldn't impact them so much that they start hurling insults. It's childish and ignorant.

Last edited by USPatriot; 06/11/20 08:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by ciph
Personally I prefer the turn-by-turn combat in BG3 over previous BG games. It gives me hard start and end of turn points in time, which lets me spend more time planning combat tactics instead of just letting the combat play out on its own. With the old pause system, it felt like I sometimes had no control over characters as they'd start doing their own thing after I gave commands. I know that you could tweak this, but why go through all of that hassle when turn-based combat eliminates that specific headache?


its literally one button to disable the AI (for ur whole party btw) like holy fuck dude such a hassle

Last edited by arajaja; 06/11/20 09:01 PM.
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Originally Posted by USPatriot
Originally Posted by Dreygor6091
It is the Divinity engine people. This engine cannot and will never be capable of RTWP. Get over it. It is the engine they are using and it is a turn based engine. Please stop suggesting this that the game engine cannot do. This also goes for the 6 man party. This engine cannot do 6 man parties. It is a limitation of the engine and no amount of whinning about it will change it.



If there were limitations in the engine, as you describe - Divinity II modders wouldn't be able to change those aspects of the game. Divinity II there are mods to increase the party size, and there are mods to change from turn-based to real-time combat. Dreygor is right, there are no such limitations.


dang there are? that might actually save the game for me modders are a godsend

Last edited by arajaja; 06/11/20 09:03 PM.
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I discovered Divinity because I loved BG1 and BG2. Divinity made me discover turn based RPGs and I realized that’s what I always missed with BG titles.

I spend time growing a character, memorizing the right spells, crafting, etc. I don’t want to win a battle because I spammed an action often enough.

When I heard Larian was working on BG3 I simply melted, a dream came true.

I have now been playing 120 hours with EA and I am simply amazed. It gets all my nostalgia up, my love for DnD, and the improved best features from Divinity engine, among various, the turn based system.

Yes some bug fights are a pain, but I think it has more to do with being EA than with being turn based or not.

AI getting stuck or being slow will go away. Larian will see the analytics and realize those fights last way too long on average. The solution for me is up to them, I might have a vague idea if what I like or not, but I am no game designer. Larian on the other hand is, and I have no doubt these early nuisance will be gone. Whether it will be by improving the ai, changing the agro rules, reducing enemies, iterating the turn based system, introducing a real time system or whatever else, I am sure Larian will find out.

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I want Real Time with Pause combat back as it was in BG1&2.
Give us the feeling of Baldurs Gate games back.
We are happy that we have a DOS3 game no questions, but if you make a Baldurs Gate game the game itself should have something of it in it.

Thanks,
an true over 30 years old fan of BG games and several years long DOS fan.

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Just kind of an outsiders perspective here. I never played any of the original Baldurs Gate games, for that matter I hadnt really played anything D&D in over 30 years(aside from the really underrated D&D: Tactics on the PSP)

But the BG games just came out during my wild party days and I just wasnt playing video games back then, so i missed out on them.
Never played any of the Divinity games either(and still havent yet)

So really BG3 is the first game Ive played like this in ages.

The turn based system in in BG3 feels really natural to me. Similar to what Tactics had going on the PSP. It reminds me much more of playing AD&D as a little kid, in that players took turns doing everything.

That being said, I was talking to my brother about BG3 and he mentioned that when he was a kid he played Neverwinter Nights and had fond memories of it.

So on a whim I got the Neverwinter Nights enhanced edition bundle on the Nintendo switch(I love handhelds, dont ask why, Im weird.)
And I gotta say, for a 20 year old game, its damn fun. Its a very different style, and it took a little more getting used to than the turn system of BG3, but it has its own charm to. Its a little more frantic, I die alot more lol, but its fun in its own right.

Both systems seem to bring something unique to the table that the other doesnt. I can understand why this thread has gone 80 pages.
To me, both systems have their pros, their cons, and their quirks. But they're both fun trying to master.

I have no idea what Larian could or would do. But I do think neither side of this debate is wrong. And if its possible to please both sides of the fanbase, then I think Larian should.
If they cant, then I still encourage everyone to give this game a chance with an open mind. Remember, its not done yet, its got a long way to go. But I feel like this could end up being a very special game. Hopefully Im right.

Alright, back to my sorceress in Neverwinter Nights.

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Originally Posted by USPatriot
Originally Posted by NooBiaN
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by NooBiaN
I think the RTwP advocacy needs to just die. This type if feedback is utterly useless because you just want a different game. Day9 made a great video about this recently, I think everyone advocating for a different game should probably check it out 😊

Nah. I'll keep loudly arguing for it. You don't get to tell me what I should or shouldn't do.
Originally Posted by Fikoley
Real time pause system is suck, ı hate it. So thats all ı just hate it. Doesn't present real strategic movements in fight.

Haha. Right. Everyone except one character is standing still and frozen, and that is "strategic movement"? LOL TB represents a static battlefield. RT(wP) represents a dynamic battlefield. Dynamic is always superior to static.



Keep arguing for it, but it is quite literally the most meaningless type of feedback. You're advocating for a different game. If turn based game play isn't your thing then this game isn't for you chief.

If Larian are half as good a developer as I believe them to be they would ignore this entire 80 page whinge fest of people crying out that they didn't make the game they wanted.



"Quite literally" huh? I don't think you know what "literally" means.

It's not useless feedback, by any means. And adding such a feature isn't going to make it a "different game". By saying that, you're essentially saying the game is completely defined by its combat mechanic, and that would be an extremely absurd notion. Turn-based combat is tedious and boring. Though I can tolerate it if the game is good enough, which Divinity II was, and Baldur's Gate III will be. But there is no real excitement or chaos in turn-based combat. As for those arguing that real-time is less strategic; that's not true. Real-time with pause combat causes you to make decisions a lot more carefully, because making the wrong decisions can get you killed since everything happens in real-time and not on a turn-by-turn basis. If you screw up one turn in turn-based combat, you get a chance to correct your mistake in the next turn. You screw up with real-time with pause? You might have to re-load your last saved game. You have to act more quickly which creates a better challenge and causes you to have to strategize very carefully during the initial encounter once it pauses.

Additionally, we're not asking them to replace the turn-based combat with real-time with pause combat. We're asking for them to add it as an additional feature, just like the makers of Pillars of Eternity II added a turn-based option in addition to their real-time with pause, and who was operating on a lot smaller budget. So I am not sure why you guys are so vehemently against this and even offended by people requesting it, as if it is going to impact your ability to play turn-based. It's not. You criticize those requesting this feature as "whining" and saying it's "meaningless feedback" but you're whining about people requesting something that would have no real impact on you whatsoever, if it were implemented. That is ironic. The company could, potentially, bring in more revenue if they added this feature. So the feedback isn't useless. I can't stand people who are against adding additional features that wouldn't impact them so much that they start hurling insults. It's childish and ignorant.



Everyone is allowed their opinion, even wrong ones. There is feedback, and then there's having a sook because the developer didn't make the game exactly how you wanted. It's like complaining that the new Doom didn't have a RTS option.

Literally. The. Worst. Type. Of. Feedback.

Just go play something else kiddos.

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Originally Posted by NooBiaN
Just go play something else kiddos.

Don't call people "kiddos". It makes grumpy mod grumpier; besides which, I don't think I've heard anyone say that IRL since I left school.


J'aime le fromage.
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Originally Posted by NooBiaN
It's like complaining that the new Doom didn't have a RTS option.


your analogy is off target.

Let's illustrate a better "what if .." ...

What if the next Starcraft came out and it was turn based instead of RTS? Could you imagine the backlash? Even if it was the tightest, most challenging and rewarding turn based experience ever created ... it still wouldn't be Starcraft to many fans.

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