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this discussion is completley pointless it is called Baldurs Gate 3, and its called that because its a Sequal to baldurs gate.
that is, at the core of it, what its about.
Beeing a sequal to baldurs gate, taking place in baldurs gate (even thoBG2 sturggled with that particular aspect)

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@Sordak
“This discussion” is a place where people express their opinions, how they feel and what they think, about things.

It’s ironic that you called it pointless then went ahead and expressed your opinion anyway. So I wonder what’s more pointless, this discussion or your post.

Do as I do: if I think a discussion is pointless, and have nothing constructive to add, I simply stay out of it.


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Originally Posted by Try2Handing
Originally Posted by Archaven
Exactly. If they wanted a different game, they shouldn't have use the title Baldur's Gate 3. If it's going to play differently ala 4 party characters, turn-based and main focus was primarily co-op/multiplayer/DM/online they could really call it something else. Baldur's Gate Online, Baldur's Gate Turn-Based tactics, etc. Not to mention there's no continuation to the story of earlier baldur's gate. So using the title 3 here was primarily gathering attention and to gain press coverage. It seems really a disgrace and cheap advertisement. Possibly under instruction from WoTC though.

I used to defend their calling the game "BG3", and was fairly aggressive when someone said they had a problem with the game being called BG3. My stance basically is that I would have no problem with the game being called BG3 as long as it is a [i]Baldur's Gate game in terms of spirit, mechanics, feels, quality, and so on, even though the story will be something else entirely.[/i]

So if the game turns out to be not quite a Baldur's Gate game, I will probably feel a bit embarrassed. The game may be as good as D:OS2, but if it is a D:OS3 rather than a BG3, then calling it BG3 is not cool.


I suspect it will be the opposite! I.e., my prediction is that the BG3 story will connect meaningfully to the story the previous games with Bhaal having longer term, grander strategy than just what he was up to with the Bhaalspawns. I think they may even figure out a way for some Bhaalspawn to still be around. But on the other hand, the gameplay will be based on 5e, which will feel very different than the Infinity engine games. And they will try to develop AI that simulates a DM at a revolutionary level. And if so, then also the NPCs that join you may also have a mind of their own. So it will feel more like playing tabletop game.

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Originally Posted by Lemernis
And they will try to develop AI that simulates a DM at a revolutionary level. And if so, then also the NPCs that join you may also have a mind of their own. So it will feel more like playing tabletop game.

Sorry, but wanting the game to "feel more like playing tabletop game" is something I just can't relate to and do not want at all. If I wanted to play a tabletop game, I'll go play a tabletop game. What I want here is to play a VIDEO game, a SINGLE PLAYER video game without any of the silliness, stupidity, annoyances, and frustrations of a tabletop game.

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A game that will yell at you. "We are just getting to the best part and you want to go to the rest room? Sit your backside back down in that chair. I will tell you a when it is a good time to take a break." silly

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Lemernis
And they will try to develop AI that simulates a DM at a revolutionary level. And if so, then also the NPCs that join you may also have a mind of their own. So it will feel more like playing tabletop game.

Sorry, but wanting the game to "feel more like playing tabletop game" is something I just can't relate to and do not want at all. If I wanted to play a tabletop game, I'll go play a tabletop game. What I want here is to play a VIDEO game, a SINGLE PLAYER video game without any of the silliness, stupidity, annoyances, and frustrations of a tabletop game.


Yeah, clearly this is a matter of personal taste, and we're all just sharing our own. I hear you.

The two best experiences I've had playing the BG series are the following:

1) The first time I played BG after about 2 months of regular play I finally beat beat Davaeorn to get into the city of Baldur's Gate. I was so elated.

2) But the other experience that truly stands out for me was a play style I devised to try to approximate the element of surprise and chance in a single player game of BG, which bears some resemblance to a tabletop game in certain respects. I detailed the approach here: Let the Fates Decide

I'm amazed to find that the thread for it at Beamdog is still there: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussi...-journal-there-will-be-major-spoilers/p1

I turned over playing cards and rolled dice for various outcomes for decisions that I roleplayed for each character. It was a lot of work to chronicle, for sure. And I only made it to the start of chapter 6 before real life demands forced me to set it aside. Honestly, I was never more invested in a game than this. I still hope to get back to it to complete it one day.

But anyway, that may color my attitude towards this.

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Originally Posted by Lemernis
Originally Posted by Sordak
BG2 had OS levels of sillyness.
I mean "Go for the eyes booo" "For great goodness" is not exactly seirous.
Which is fine. I think people overstate how serious baldurs gate reayl was. Just because you remember a game for the story, doesnt mean the story had to be super serious at all times, or even that much of a groundbreaking story to begin with.
I think people someitmes confuse baldurs gate with Torment and even that was not serious at all times.

Try2Handing, funny, considering those people with 2 or 3 posts that come, beeing realy loud and demand to have things their way are those advocating for RTWP.] im personally suspecting some action taken on some """other""" Forum that encourages people to be loud about this.


Yeah in BG there's a great mix of occasional humor combined with a dark central plot. The mix is about perfect in the BG games. (Good news: you've got special powers and are destined to affect your world at an epic scale! grin Bad news: your real dad is the Lord of Murder (ouch) and you carry his divine essence within you (double ouch). eek Also as you suggest this is not groundbreaking, as we had already seen it in Star Wars. Even to the point of discovering that you have a sister from the same evil father, etc.)

At the Beamdog forums there are some players making a lot of assumptions about BG3. Those assumptions may turn out to be well reasoned and correct, for all we know. Time will tell. But quite honestly at this stage it's projection. And, tbh, it looks to me like catastrophizing based on that projection.

However by the same token this also underscores just how dearly they love what BG1 and 2 were able to achieve as a total gaming experience. There are certain fundamental aspects of those games that they fear losing in BG3, and that idea is deeply distressing to them.

At the risk of maybe gettting too philosophical about it, to me the change to 5e and likely (?) TB play feels similar to the fact that the game is set a century later where the setting itself has been substantially altered by the Spellplague and Second Sundering. It's literally taking place in a significantly different world than BG1 and 2. (And in real lie it's 21 years later--a lot has changed in gaming technology during that time.) Arcane magic users don't use the Weave anymore. The gods and the planes have changed. Geography has been significantly altered as well. A parallel in real life is to compare the world today to 1919, just after WW1.

Regardless of how fond I am of 2e AD&D in particular (especially the setting), just from a storytelling perspective I really like that! This is a world that is still recovering from a cataclysm. I've seen some YT videos that say that in a lot of ways WotC has tried to sweep the Spellplague/Second Sundering under the rug, so to speak, i.e., in some ways has virtually pretended it never happened. But I actually hope that BG3 will make that world scale disaster and a fragile recovery from it vital to the tale. Like maybe only a decade afterward everything looks reassuringly stable at a superficial level, but in a lot of ways the foundations of this world are still vey precarious. And the Dead Three can risk really serious damage to the stability of the recovery.

But anyway, it feels fitting to me that with the setting itself developing a new foundation, that we also have a game playing experience (new game engine) that mirrors that. This can be such an incredible game. There is risk and adventure involved here, but that is the essence of D&D!



The Spellplague shredded the weave, but Mystria's return repaired it, so in 5e the Weave is back. I don't know if the Shadow Weave is back or not. Lot of dead Gods are alive again. They unified the Demihuman Pantheon between worlds so there is a crap load of new Gods, especially Elven and Dwarven, but one Greyhawk Halfling God, Charmane, made her way to Faerun and other settings. There are now almost as many Elven Gods between the Seldarine and Dark Seldarine as there are Gods in the Faerun Pantheon. A couple of Gods are only mentioned in the novels are back including Nobanion and Enlil but haven't been mentioned in a source book. The Tabaxi worship the Cat Lord now. The Geography has mostly been restored to the 2e version, with some important exceptions. Some nations wiped out in 4e are back, like Mulhorand, Unther, Halruaa, Lantan, ect..., but some 4e nations persist, like Tymanther's core cities, the Warlock Knights of Vassa, and so on.

And it's more like the Sundering was World War 2 being fought (Shade and its Vessel States vs Cormyr, Myth Drannor, some Dales, and so on, while Climate Change is reaching its transformative Zenith, while the second coming of not just Christ, but many other Gods are going on, and the Cruasades on top of that, while repairing all the radioactive fallout from a nuclear war, while merging with an alt history mirror earth with different physics. It got crazy.


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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by Lemernis
Originally Posted by Sordak
BG2 had OS levels of sillyness.
I mean "Go for the eyes booo" "For great goodness" is not exactly seirous.
Which is fine. I think people overstate how serious baldurs gate reayl was. Just because you remember a game for the story, doesnt mean the story had to be super serious at all times, or even that much of a groundbreaking story to begin with.
I think people someitmes confuse baldurs gate with Torment and even that was not serious at all times.

Try2Handing, funny, considering those people with 2 or 3 posts that come, beeing realy loud and demand to have things their way are those advocating for RTWP.] im personally suspecting some action taken on some """other""" Forum that encourages people to be loud about this.


Yeah in BG there's a great mix of occasional humor combined with a dark central plot. The mix is about perfect in the BG games. (Golod news: you've got special powers and are destined to affect your world at an epic scale! grin Bad news: your real dad is the Lord of Murder (ouch) and you carry his divine essence within you (double ouch). eek Also as you suggest this is not groundbreaking, as we had already seen it in Star Wars. Even to the point of discovering that you have a sister from the same evil father, etc.)

At the Beamdog forums there are some players making a lot of assumptions about BG3. Those assumptions may turn out to be well reasoned and correct, for all we know. Time will tell. But quite honestly at this stage it's projection. And, tbh, it looks to me like catastrophizing based on that projection.

However by the same token this also underscores just how dearly they love what BG1 and 2 were able to achieve as a total gaming experience. There are certain fundamental aspects of those games that they fear losing in BG3, and that idea is deeply distressing to them.

At the risk of maybe gettting too philosophical about it, to me the change to 5e and likely (?) TB play feels similar to the fact that the game is set a century later where the setting itself has been substantially altered by the Spellplague and Second Sundering. It's literally taking place in a significantly different world than BG1 and 2. (And in real lie it's 21 years later--a lot has changed in gaming technology during that time.) Arcane magic users don't use the Weave anymore. The gods and the planes have changed. Geography has been significantly altered as well. A parallel in real life is to compare the world today to 1919, just after WW1.

Regardless of how fond I am of 2e AD&D in particular (especially the setting), just from a storytelling perspective I really like that! This is a world that is still recovering from a cataclysm. I've seen some YT videos that say that in a lot of ways WotC has tried to sweep the Spellplague/Second Sundering under the rug, so to speak, i.e., in some ways has virtually pretended it never happened. But I actually hope that BG3 will make that world scale disaster and a fragile recovery from it vital to the tale. Like maybe only a decade afterward everything looks reassuringly stable at a superficial level, but in a lot of ways the foundations of this world are still vey precarious. And the Dead Three can risk really serious damage to the stability of the recovery.

But anyway, it feels fitting to me that with the setting itself developing a new foundation, that we also have a game playing experience (new game engine) that mirrors that. This can be such an incredible game. There is risk and adventure involved here, but that is the essence of D&D!



The Spellplague shredded the weave, but Mystria's return repaired it, so in 5e the Weave is back. I don't know if the Shadow Weave is back or not. Lot of dead Gods are alive again. They unified the Demihuman Pantheon between worlds so there is a crap load of new Gods, especially Elven and Dwarven, but one Greyhawk Halfling God, Charmane, made her way to Faerun and other settings. There are now almost as many Elven Gods between the Seldarine and Dark Seldarine as there are Gods in the Faerun Pantheon. A couple of Gods are only mentioned in the novels are back including Nobanion and Enlil but haven't been mentioned in a source book. The Tabaxi worship the Cat Lord now. The Geography has mostly been restored to the 2e version, with some important exceptions. Some nations wiped out in 4e are back, like Mulhorand, Unther, Halruaa, Lantan, ect..., but some 4e nations persist, like Tymanther's core cities, the Warlock Knights of Vassa, and so on.

And it's more like the Sundering was World War 2 being fought (Shade and its Vessel States vs Cormyr, Myth Drannor, some Dales, and so on, while Climate Change is reaching its transformative Zenith, while the second coming of not just Christ, but many other Gods are going on, and the Cruasades on top of that, while repairing all the radioactive fallout from a nuclear war, while merging with an alt history mirror earth with different physics. It got crazy.



Thanks, I'm relying on videos and wikis to get up to speed with how 5e restored things from 4e. Some things aren't clear to me yet, so this helps.

What I'm hoping is that that they make good use of the cataclysmic events and their aftermath from the story perspective. With Mystra having been recently reconstituted from memories within the Weave and from parts of three goddesses maybe the Weave is still somewhat fragile. I think I did see a video by someone (Jordphan?) that commented to that effect, i.e., that yes, things seem to be getting back to normal but it's still a fragile recovery. And then during the 1480s arcane casters had to try to figure out how to use magic without the Weave and it's only been about 5 years since the Weave was restored. And with the Second Sundering's effects upon the planes and gods, divine magic must have been harmed as well during all that tumult. I'm hoping that the recovery is actually somewhat in jeopardy by whatever the Dead Three are plotting, especially Bhaal.

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Bhaal is Mortal now. His brain got sucked by a mind flayer with 4 tentacles causing to to become a mind flayer with 6 tentacles on his way to becoming an Elder Brain with a 200 mile radius of communing with is many mind flayers causing them to attack and convert (murder) citizens of Baldur's Gate. First Baldur's Gate then all of Toril. - So sayeth the wise Alaundo. silly

And as they say: "Larian Studio, the Bhaal is in your court."

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Originally Posted by Lemernis
Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by Lemernis
Originally Posted by Sordak
BG2 had OS levels of sillyness.
I mean "Go for the eyes booo" "For great goodness" is not exactly seirous.
Which is fine. I think people overstate how serious baldurs gate reayl was. Just because you remember a game for the story, doesnt mean the story had to be super serious at all times, or even that much of a groundbreaking story to begin with.
I think people someitmes confuse baldurs gate with Torment and even that was not serious at all times.

Try2Handing, funny, considering those people with 2 or 3 posts that come, beeing realy loud and demand to have things their way are those advocating for RTWP.] im personally suspecting some action taken on some """other""" Forum that encourages people to be loud about this.


Yeah in BG there's a great mix of occasional humor combined with a dark central plot. The mix is about perfect in the BG games. (Golod news: you've got special powers and are destined to affect your world at an epic scale! grin Bad news: your real dad is the Lord of Murder (ouch) and you carry his divine essence within you (double ouch). eek Also as you suggest this is not groundbreaking, as we had already seen it in Star Wars. Even to the point of discovering that you have a sister from the same evil father, etc.)

At the Beamdog forums there are some players making a lot of assumptions about BG3. Those assumptions may turn out to be well reasoned and correct, for all we know. Time will tell. But quite honestly at this stage it's projection. And, tbh, it looks to me like catastrophizing based on that projection.

However by the same token this also underscores just how dearly they love what BG1 and 2 were able to achieve as a total gaming experience. There are certain fundamental aspects of those games that they fear losing in BG3, and that idea is deeply distressing to them.

At the risk of maybe gettting too philosophical about it, to me the change to 5e and likely (?) TB play feels similar to the fact that the game is set a century later where the setting itself has been substantially altered by the Spellplague and Second Sundering. It's literally taking place in a significantly different world than BG1 and 2. (And in real lie it's 21 years later--a lot has changed in gaming technology during that time.) Arcane magic users don't use the Weave anymore. The gods and the planes have changed. Geography has been significantly altered as well. A parallel in real life is to compare the world today to 1919, just after WW1.

Regardless of how fond I am of 2e AD&D in particular (especially the setting), just from a storytelling perspective I really like that! This is a world that is still recovering from a cataclysm. I've seen some YT videos that say that in a lot of ways WotC has tried to sweep the Spellplague/Second Sundering under the rug, so to speak, i.e., in some ways has virtually pretended it never happened. But I actually hope that BG3 will make that world scale disaster and a fragile recovery from it vital to the tale. Like maybe only a decade afterward everything looks reassuringly stable at a superficial level, but in a lot of ways the foundations of this world are still vey precarious. And the Dead Three can risk really serious damage to the stability of the recovery.

But anyway, it feels fitting to me that with the setting itself developing a new foundation, that we also have a game playing experience (new game engine) that mirrors that. This can be such an incredible game. There is risk and adventure involved here, but that is the essence of D&D!



The Spellplague shredded the weave, but Mystria's return repaired it, so in 5e the Weave is back. I don't know if the Shadow Weave is back or not. Lot of dead Gods are alive again. They unified the Demihuman Pantheon between worlds so there is a crap load of new Gods, especially Elven and Dwarven, but one Greyhawk Halfling God, Charmane, made her way to Faerun and other settings. There are now almost as many Elven Gods between the Seldarine and Dark Seldarine as there are Gods in the Faerun Pantheon. A couple of Gods are only mentioned in the novels are back including Nobanion and Enlil but haven't been mentioned in a source book. The Tabaxi worship the Cat Lord now. The Geography has mostly been restored to the 2e version, with some important exceptions. Some nations wiped out in 4e are back, like Mulhorand, Unther, Halruaa, Lantan, ect..., but some 4e nations persist, like Tymanther's core cities, the Warlock Knights of Vassa, and so on.

And it's more like the Sundering was World War 2 being fought (Shade and its Vessel States vs Cormyr, Myth Drannor, some Dales, and so on, while Climate Change is reaching its transformative Zenith, while the second coming of not just Christ, but many other Gods are going on, and the Cruasades on top of that, while repairing all the radioactive fallout from a nuclear war, while merging with an alt history mirror earth with different physics. It got crazy.



Thanks, I'm relying on videos and wikis to get up to speed with how 5e restored things from 4e. Some things aren't clear to me yet, so this helps.

What I'm hoping is that that they make good use of the cataclysmic events and their aftermath from the story perspective. With Mystra having been recently reconstituted from memories within the Weave and from parts of three goddesses maybe the Weave is still somewhat fragile. I think I did see a video by someone (Jordphan?) that commented to that effect, i.e., that yes, things seem to be getting back to normal but it's still a fragile recovery. And then during the 1480s arcane casters had to try to figure out how to use magic without the Weave and it's only been about 5 years since the Weave was restored. And with the Second Sundering's effects upon the planes and gods, divine magic must have been harmed as well during all that tumult. I'm hoping that the recovery is actually somewhat in jeopardy by whatever the Dead Three are plotting, especially Bhaal.


I suggest buying a copy of the Swordcoast Adventurer's Guide or SCAG, you can buy acheaper copy off Amazon. It's smaller then I would like, but it will at least give you the basics for getting up to speed on FR 5e.

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On the FR lore.
I honestly kind of tabbed out on the 4e to 5e transition.
Unther is back, so what happened to Tymanther then? Are the dragonborn back in Dragon-hell world?
Why are they are PHB race then?

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Originally Posted by Sordak
On the FR lore.
I honestly kind of tabbed out on the 4e to 5e transition.
Unther is back, so what happened to Tymanther then? Are the dragonborn back in Dragon-hell world?
Why are they are PHB race then?


Your really better off reading two novels by Erin M Evans that covers it. Ashes of the Tyrant and The Devil You Know, or even just read the entire Brimstone Angels series period, which starts in 4e, but going into the Sundering by the end, its one of the best Forgotten Realms series period, Erin M Evans.

Spoiler Alert, just in case you don't want to wait.












When the Sundering hits, the descendants of Unther (and Mulhurondi who were occupying it when the Spellplague hit), were transported to Toril just as they were about to invade a Genasi city on Abeir, which was apart of an Empire of Genasi called Shyr which was ruled by a elemental God like Primordial. See the Genasi had enslaved the Mulhorandi and Untherites, putting the Mulhorandi in charge of the Untherites. When Gilgeam is reborn on Abeir he leads the Untherites in a revolt against the Shyr Empire. The Sundering messes that plan up by transporting most of the Untherites back to Toril, including Gilgeam.

This is a good thing for Gilgeam as he steals credit for returning the Untherites to their homeland. Also Toril is alot more high magic then Abeir is so Gilgeam starts to grow alot in power, I mean alot.

He rebuilds Unthlass the old capital, partly with the help of captured Dragonborn refugees from the Chaos of the second Sundering which is changing the land or transporting Dragonborn back to Abier, but in a haphazd sort of way, not all at once.

And Gilgeam is not the only Untherite God involved. Enlil is trying to find away back to FR and he speaks in the head of Dragonborn who functional becomes his prophet. He makes a deal with the traditionally none religious Dragonborn, and he ends up saving both of their major cities from being transported by the Spellplague, so while Tymanther survives, it loses most of it's territory to Unther and maybe some to a restored Mulhorand, but saves a strip of land around it's two large, Fortress like cities. This of course leads to war Between Unther and Tymanther, which ends in a Stalemate basically.

Also Dragonborn refugees that fled from returned abeir across the the sea before the Sundering and Dragonborn who left Tynanther before the Sundering and their descendants are totally unaffected, so there is a huge Dragonborn diaspora already throughout the Forgotten Realms, so there are Dragonborn from different cultural traditions as well.

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I actually read up on that while waiting for the answer but thanks for summing it up.
i actually come to like Tymanther, im a sucker for militaristic societies.
Never realy understood Unther, its kind of egypt and mesopotamia but in a compleltey wrong timeframe.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Sorry, but wanting the game to "feel more like playing tabletop game" is something I just can't relate to and do not want at all. If I wanted to play a tabletop game, I'll go play a tabletop game. What I want here is to play a VIDEO game, a SINGLE PLAYER video game without any of the silliness, stupidity, annoyances, and frustrations of a tabletop game.


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keep clapping to your canned opinions

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Originally Posted by Frenzy-kun
Now I am reading a lot of people, fans of larian but not necessarily of Baldur's Gate wanting to change Baldur's Gate to their tastes. Would that still be Baldur's gate?. It would be a different game, one that I might like or not, but certainly not the game that made me come here ...

So, TLDR; if Larian uses the brand of Baldur's Gate they should stick to it's roots and keep the core game design as the fans loved it. Else, they should just create any other brand, even if it's based in the forgotten realms universe, as Black Isle did with Neverwinter Nights. But please, don't split the fanbase.


That's the rub, BGIII *will* be a different game. It's been 20 years since the last game and everything has changed. The developer, the technology, the computers we use them on and importantly there is a new generation of players. And don't think that the Original Sin fanbase isn't playing a part here - probably the biggest reason Wizards chose Larian is because they're bringing a whole new fanbase with them over to BGIII.

It'll be a different game in so many ways by necessity and definition, I predict that no matter what they do people will freak out. I'm a developer and have seen this too many times, with a legacy it seems impossible to keep people happy, no matter how hard you try. You know what amazes me? Is how much players demand development, evolution and improvement in games, and how obstinate they insist on stuff from the past. Like turn based versus real time. Who really cares? A lot of people I guess, surprises me (or doesn't rather) the vitriol over this. I've played both in BG and most of the Original Sins, personally have a preference, but whatever. I'll take whatever they do because I'm confident they'll do a great game. Otherwise I appreciate the difficulty they have and am a little glad I don't have to sweat over it personally.

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