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Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654496
02/08/19 09:06 PM
02/08/19 09:06 PM
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Guys, be cool to each other. Different opinions are okay. We can have some quite interesting discussions about stuff, more so than we could if everyone was in agreement, but we can do so without getting irate. I'm currently very tired and trying to catch up on some sleep so please make sure I don't wake up with a sore head and find a bunch of people who teacher needs to give detention.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654501
03/08/19 05:28 AM
03/08/19 05:28 AM
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If I see unbelievably skimpy armor that doesn't even make sense I'll probably just chuckle and enjoy the game. As someone who has played enough video games and read enough mangas, to me the whole "skimpy armor" and "sexualized female chars" thing is more of a meme than anything. To me it's just funny. But I suppose some people *are* offended by such things, and they have the right to want to not have to deal with them.

Sometimes I'm just happy that I'm not offended or concerned by things such as this like some people. I can enjoy things more freely.

What *would* upset me is what they pulled with Inquisition. An entire cast of unattractive major female characters, except Morrigan and Leliana. Hell, if these two characters had not been established before this game, they probably would have been much less attractive, too. This is a stupid move and everyone knows it. I don't think this will be a concern when it's Larian doing this, though.

Last edited by Try2Handing; 03/08/19 05:29 AM.

"We make our choices and take what comes and the rest is void."
Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Hawke] #654543
04/08/19 03:06 PM
04/08/19 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawke
Originally Posted by Sordak
thats because you assume we are talking about one extreme or another.
Just look at the character portraits of baldurs gate or the female armors in neverwinter nights and youll know what were talking about here.

The argument is not realy wether or not you like sexualized fantasy characters but wether or not artists should be allowed to create them.
Id like to remind you that Original Sin 1 had its cover art censored because of this issue.


And yet Original Sin 2 armour design was skimpier than ever before in the Divinity series, so I wouldn't worry about Larian becoming puritan all of sudden


That makes me feel relieved!

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654544
04/08/19 03:13 PM
04/08/19 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Haran
I did not expect to get so much hate for such a simple request. I don't visit game forums often, so when I came back today to check if there was a reply to my post I was surprised to see that it was at the very top of the page.

To the developers: please keep in mind that most of your fans, like me, do not write often on forums such as this. The people who voiced objection to my request may be the most vocal fans, and they seem to have very strong opinions on the sexualization of female characters in games. But I'm guessing they are a minority and that the vast majority of people who play your games share my opinion that characters in games are not there to satisfy our sexual desires. And we would prefer you ditch the boob plate and skimpy outfits in favor of more believable and more humanizing portrayals of female characters.


who is that "we" there? you voice opinion on your "own". you don't represent anyone here. basically i don't have or need sexual desires from fantasy pixel games. if i need sexual desire i can find aplenty in real life.

first and foremost.. i prefer boob plate, chainmail bikini... whatever you name it. if larian is brave enough (history shows they are afraid of SJWs who don't play their games). larian.. if you take these people seriously about females need to look bland and armor needs "realism" in a game where you shoot fireball from your hand.. i'd think again about realism. these people who talks realism out of their...

i rest my case.

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654546
04/08/19 04:23 PM
04/08/19 04:23 PM
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I'll rephrase an earlier suggestion I made that the game developers could provide additional art options to satisfy everyone.. If the resources are available I don't see how any reasonable person could object to one person playing a version with optional puritanical character art and another opting for one with a bawdier style. At the very least, previous games in this genre have offered the ability to customize character portraits; could something like this be a solution?

This is an interesting topic but it's become clear that a compromise may never be enough for some individuals who insist that game developers conform to their personal sensibilities or agenda. If any player is unhappy with one artistic rendering or another they should always feel welcome to voice that Opinion but should Not have the power to pressure game developers to cater to their whims or to generalize and belittle other players with an alternate viewpoint.

In the end Larian will make the game that they want to. I hope it will have the gameplay, roleplaying aspects, combat style, and art direction that I'm looking for, and if it meets most of those things then I'll definitely buy it. If not, I'll spend my entertainment $ elsewhere. I don't for a second believe that my one decision is going to make or break their profit margin nor do I believe I represent anyone other than myself when I voice what kind of game <I> am looking for.

So let's lose the dramatics and stick to making suggestions that Larian can use to help make a game that Everyone can enjoy.

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654547
04/08/19 04:28 PM
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It occurs to me that just like for Skyrim, NWN2, and Star Trek Online someone will do a NUDITY PATCH!

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Archaven] #654548
04/08/19 04:30 PM
04/08/19 04:30 PM
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It occurs to me that just like for Skyrim, NWN2, and Star Trek Online someone will do a NUDITY PATCH!
Originally Posted by Archaven
Originally Posted by Haran
I did not expect to get so much hate for such a simple request. I don't visit game forums often, so when I came back today to check if there was a reply to my post I was surprised to see that it was at the very top of the page.

To the developers: please keep in mind that most of your fans, like me, do not write often on forums such as this. The people who voiced objection to my request may be the most vocal fans, and they seem to have very strong opinions on the sexualization of female characters in games. But I'm guessing they are a minority and that the vast majority of people who play your games share my opinion that characters in games are not there to satisfy our sexual desires. And we would prefer you ditch the boob plate and skimpy outfits in favor of more believable and more humanizing portrayals of female characters.


who is that "we" there? you voice opinion on your "own". you don't represent anyone here. basically i don't have or need sexual desires from fantasy pixel games. if i need sexual desire i can find aplenty in real life.

first and foremost.. i prefer boob plate, chainmail bikini... whatever you name it. if larian is brave enough (history shows they are afraid of SJWs who don't play their games). larian.. if you take these people seriously about females need to look bland and armor needs "realism" in a game where you shoot fireball from your hand.. i'd think again about realism. these people who talks realism out of their...

i rest my case.


Once you go pixel, er... Damn what rhythms with Pixel?

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654549
04/08/19 08:18 PM
04/08/19 08:18 PM
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Well, for one I'm tired of constant sexualization and objectification of women in video games (if there is no sexualization of male characters).

Will that keep me from buying BG3 ? Probably not (combat gameplay may).
But do I want something plausible in terms of armor ? Yes.

And frankly, I think this is a lost battle for the people who absolutely want women to have sexy models.
Malady is gorgeous without having to see her bellybutton first.

PS : so, after Zandalor trunks do we get Zandalor thong (at first I wrote Zandalor thing laugh ) as high level armor ?

Last edited by melianos; 04/08/19 08:19 PM.
Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654551
04/08/19 10:06 PM
04/08/19 10:06 PM
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genuinly asking, what sexualization and objectification?
In western RPGs to boot?
Which doesnt even get into the question wether or not these things are actually bad, or if this is just another parroted phrase.
As for men not beeing sexualized: kind of pointless. Women are not attracted to men beeing sexualized in the same way men like women to be sexualized, its a false equivalency.

On having options. Yes i think having options to go either way is probably what most sensible people actually want.
Its not like i am against having variety. The issue is with those people that are osmehow offended by one particular thing even beeing included.

Last edited by Sordak; 04/08/19 10:07 PM.
Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Sordak] #654554
05/08/19 03:55 AM
05/08/19 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sordak
Women are not attracted to men beeing sexualized in the same way men like women to be sexualized, its a false equivalency.

ew, men. I encountered one the other day. Nasty, hairy, smelly creatures.

Apart from Lemmy, of course. Everyone fancies Lemmy.


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Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654556
05/08/19 04:24 AM
05/08/19 04:24 AM
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Remember that Wizards/Hasbro has a hand in this, and they are quite PC, doubt they will let larian do whatever they want. Bikini mods will be the way to go. Im still hoping for the sexy + functional stuff smile and the naked wizards ofc.

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Sordak] #654559
05/08/19 04:31 AM
05/08/19 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaven
(history shows they are afraid of SJWs who don't play their games).

Really? For changing the cover art, when there were other, valid reasons for doing so, and no in-game art was changed, including literal bikini armour (female orcs) and a character wearing only vines and leaves? In fact, the concept art for the later character was on the Kickstarter page all through most of that discussion (near the top, even, until a large update about stretch goals was added), and nobody objecting to the cover art mentioned it, and nobody claiming Larian 'caved in to censorship' ever explain if that was the case why nothing else was changed (and the original cover art continued to be used in other places).

Several people had issues with the design of the female elves in D:OS 2, though somehow not the equivalently designed male elves. This was noted by Larian, discussed briefly, and no changes were made.



Originally Posted by Sordak
As for men not beeing sexualized: kind of pointless. Women are not attracted to men beeing sexualized in the same way men like women to be sexualized, its a false equivalency.

Um... have you never seen the cover of a romance novel, or the lead characters in most romantic comedies? Have you never been in an office full of women when the hot delivery guy comes in? Woman can and do sexualize and objectify men (do I need a #notall?).
I know of a Scottish bar in Canada that had kilts as part of the uniforms, then had to switch back to pants, since women repeatedly would check out what the male servers were wearing underneath, despite signs requesting they not do so.

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654561
05/08/19 08:25 AM
05/08/19 08:25 AM
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Not saying women dont objectify men.
Im saying that 1. objectification is not somethng terrible, its something normal and 2. what i meant is that if men were sexualized in the same way women are sexualized, most women would not be attracted to that.
Look at some steam romance novels, you got muscular dudes looking into the distance, or muscular dudes holding women, or muscular dudes riding horses.

Thats pretty much exactly the depiction men get in Fantasy media. It is however not considered "Sexualizing" men because it doesnt LOOk the same way as women are "sexualized".
But that is due to the fact that what is considered attractive in men has a tendency of beeing assertiveness, power and status. Which is ofthen called a "power fantasy".
Thats why i call it af alse equivalency. Men are sexualized in a way that is attractive to women, but that "doesnt count" since thats also a "power fantasy".
Ironically, from my expirience with women, physical attractiveness and beeing swooned over is a power fantasy for many women....

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: melianos] #654563
05/08/19 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by melianos
Well, for one I'm tired of constant sexualization and objectification of women in video games (if there is no sexualization of male characters).

Will that keep me from buying BG3 ? Probably not (combat gameplay may).
But do I want something plausible in terms of armor ? Yes.

And frankly, I think this is a lost battle for the people who absolutely want women to have sexy models.
Malady is gorgeous without having to see her bellybutton first.

PS : so, after Zandalor trunks do we get Zandalor thong (at first I wrote Zandalor thing laugh ) as high level armor ?


I'm all for equal opportunity sexiness.

But I don't buy into feminist theory of sexual objectification (95% of feminist theories), I have yet to confuse someone with a sofa or a toaster, or refrigerator, or a vibrator, or a fleshlight just because I'm attracted to either appearance. Although I'm willing to pretend I do if that is their fetish I guess.

Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654567
05/08/19 04:21 PM
05/08/19 04:21 PM
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Er, how about we don't go there. Let's stick to the subject of inappropriate armour.


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Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654682
11/08/19 10:03 PM
11/08/19 10:03 PM
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[Linked Image]

No revealing armor? That is precisely why 20 cha bards use light armor.


Now in serious, I think the devs should go with whatever vision they have for the game, In the Internet era you are going to offend someone no matter what you do or don´t do.

As long as they don´t put swastikas or triple KKK as coats of arms I am ok.




Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654685
11/08/19 11:35 PM
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It's not like sexualized armor is unrealistic.

[Linked Image]

I don't like armored bikinis because they're stupid. Boobplate is fine though, we probably would have had that in the real world if we'd had a society with a large number of women in the fighting nobility.


FABRICATE DIEM, PVNK
Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654687
12/08/19 12:17 AM
12/08/19 12:17 AM
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Sarmatian, Scythian (the origin of the myth of the Amazons)and greek Spartan woman historically participated in warfare, wearing almost nothing, even less than bikini armor (they do not even need it because, if you believe the chronicles, they cauterize their right breast to impede growth).

But we can also say that they lived in the Mediterranean, I do not see them fighting like that in a place like Icewind dale.

Last edited by _Vic_; 12/08/19 12:20 AM.
Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654690
12/08/19 02:52 AM
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Scythian
[Linked Image]

Sarmatian
[Linked Image]


Not exactly next to nothing. Spartan women didn't actually fight, they helped dig defensive works and acted as supply and support. They did wear very short robes which scandalized the rest of the Greeks.


My comment about women not wearing armor was in the context of plate armor. None of the societies that used full plate had women warriors, though there were a few sets of armor made for specific women for ceremonial purposes.


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Re: Art design for female characters [Re: Haran] #654699
12/08/19 02:50 PM
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I meant the quantity of armor, not the quantity of clothing. I agree with your statement and thx for the images.

Plate, full armor, chainmails will be very cumbersome to wear in hot mediterranean climates, in deserts and sand beaches. Look at the crusaders in holy land.



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