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idk.
at this point i think dragonborn just play out the trope better and can be used for chraacters that arent rangers and druids

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Originally Posted by Sordak
idk.
at this point i think dragonborn just play out the trope better and can be used for chraacters that arent rangers and druids


Lizardfolk can be used for any class Dragonborn can be.

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No matter which races end up making it in the game, I hope the choice will actually matter. Thinking back to NWN2 for example, if you played a drow you'd get exactly one (1) line of dialogue where an NPC would question why you are around. It can be an important factor for the immersion and the replayability of the game to make sure every race gets the appropriate writing attached to it.

So I believe it would probably better to go for a "less is more" approach when it comes to the number of playable races. Though I of course hope for there being proper subraces, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have to skip out on those.

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Originally Posted by Buttercheese
No matter which races end up making it in the game, I hope the choice will actually matter. Thinking back to NWN2 for example, if you played a drow you'd get exactly one (1) line of dialogue where an NPC would question why you are around. It can be an important factor for the immersion and the replayability of the game to make sure every race gets the appropriate writing attached to it.

So I believe it would probably better to go for a "less is more" approach when it comes to the number of playable races. Though I of course hope for there being proper subraces, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have to skip out on those.


Well just to compare, the just announced CRPG Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous from Owlcat makers of Pathfinder: Kilngmaker will have, assuming nothing gets cut from PF:KM at least 17 classes with at least 4 archetypes each, a few Prestige classes as well, 6 Mythic Paths including Lich, Celestial Angel, and Trickester, and Elves, Humans, Halflings, Dwarves, Half Elves, Half Orcs, Aasimar (7 subraces), Tieflings (10 subraces), and a new race which has not been identified yet, and they have promised race will matter.

And they are doing it on a much, much smaller budget then BG 3 (over 200 internal staff and 100 external staff for BG3, hundreds of staff more Owlcat has)


So that gives you an idea of Baldur's Gate's 3 has to compete with.


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yeah but consider that pathfinder races are all recoloured humans, 10 tieflign subraces dont realy matter if they all look like humans with horns glued to their forehead adn get different statboni.
Much the same is true for classes.
Pathfidner is esssentialy 3.5 , a lot of classes share the same spells, implementing a new class is a matter of inserting values into a spreadsheet half the time and balancign isnt an issue when you 1:1 copy an already existing rulebook

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I am not sure what Owlcat have to do with this, but if we are gonna compare companies, Bioware's Dragon Age has overall only four playable races throughout the series and they presumably have a bigger budget and workforce than all the other companies in the genre combined. Just throwing some arbitrary numbers around ain't constructive here. Resources can be used in very different ways.

My point is that I want quality over quantity. If that means cutting some (sub) races from the roster, then so be it.

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dunno, i know people here praise dragon age for their backgrounds.
but id rather have that many human backgrounds than having elves and dwarves.

personally recoloured humans are just not appealing to me, and id rather have a quantity of chocies so theres some actually good ones in there, and if were going quality over quantity then please go human only.

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In Dragon Age, your race matters more than in any other RPG I have played: Different Dialogue, different quest solutions, drastically different endings.
Even the human race feels like a decision and actually gets unique content. Heck, even your sex changes a lot of dialogue and offers unique quest solutions wink
It's one of the main reasons why it's my favourite fantasy CRPG.

Last edited by Hawke; 05/12/19 05:35 PM.
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Some of the "race relations" stuff in DA is quite interesting, especially comparing the attitudes of the dalisn and the city elves; and then you have Sera who absolutely rails against anything too "elfy" and even warns you off commenting about her pointy ears.

Most universes featuring humans, elves, dwarves etc involve some friction but it's usually just a very basic "elves are haughty and dwarves have Small Man Syndrome", but I felt DA was a bit more nuanced than most.


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@Hawke & @vometia: Exactly. They made sure not to spread their butter to thin and instead added multiple options for other defining factors besides race. I don't expect BG3 to be on that level (because I assume a smaller budget), but I'd prefer for things to go that route instead of being able to play a gorram Dragonborn who gets treated like a human by the NPCs.

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i wouldnt like that tbh.
Woulda ctually be a turnoff for me.
If they can add that depth to the races? nice.
if it forces me to live with the lamest of the races? Nope, id rather not.

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Originally Posted by Sordak
yeah but consider that pathfinder races are all recoloured humans, 10 tieflign subraces dont realy matter if they all look like humans with horns glued to their forehead adn get different statboni.
Much the same is true for classes.
Pathfidner is esssentialy 3.5 , a lot of classes share the same spells, implementing a new class is a matter of inserting values into a spreadsheet half the time and balancign isnt an issue when you 1:1 copy an already existing rulebook


5e isn't that different then 3.5 when it comes to class common ground. Many spells shared between classes. A few shared features like Channel Divinity.


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Originally Posted by Buttercheese
I am not sure what Owlcat have to do with this, but if we are gonna compare companies, Bioware's Dragon Age has overall only four playable races throughout the series and they presumably have a bigger budget and workforce than all the other companies in the genre combined. Just throwing some arbitrary numbers around ain't constructive here. Resources can be used in very different ways.

My point is that I want quality over quantity. If that means cutting some (sub) races from the roster, then so be it.


I looked for hard numbers on developers for any of the Dragon Age games and came up empty, so I'm not prepared to assume that they had a larger workforce then Larian Studios until I get hard evidence of that, I need actual numbers.

And depth or number of races isn't an either or situation, that is false assumption you are making.

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Originally Posted by Buttercheese
@Hawke & @vometia: Exactly. They made sure not to spread their butter to thin and instead added multiple options for other defining factors besides race. I don't expect BG3 to be on that level (because I assume a smaller budget), but I'd prefer for things to go that route instead of being able to play a gorram Dragonborn who gets treated like a human by the NPCs.


Do you know the budget for both games? If you don't why assume that?

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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by Buttercheese
I am not sure what Owlcat have to do with this, but if we are gonna compare companies, Bioware's Dragon Age has overall only four playable races throughout the series and they presumably have a bigger budget and workforce than all the other companies in the genre combined. Just throwing some arbitrary numbers around ain't constructive here. Resources can be used in very different ways.

My point is that I want quality over quantity. If that means cutting some (sub) races from the roster, then so be it.


I looked for hard numbers on developers for any of the Dragon Age games and came up empty, so I'm not prepared to assume that they had a larger workforce then Larian Studios until I get hard evidence of that, I need actual numbers.

And depth or number of races isn't an either or situation, that is false assumption you are making.

About 200 people worked on DAO

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Originally Posted by Hawke
Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by Buttercheese
I am not sure what Owlcat have to do with this, but if we are gonna compare companies, Bioware's Dragon Age has overall only four playable races throughout the series and they presumably have a bigger budget and workforce than all the other companies in the genre combined. Just throwing some arbitrary numbers around ain't constructive here. Resources can be used in very different ways.

My point is that I want quality over quantity. If that means cutting some (sub) races from the roster, then so be it.


I looked for hard numbers on developers for any of the Dragon Age games and came up empty, so I'm not prepared to assume that they had a larger workforce then Larian Studios until I get hard evidence of that, I need actual numbers.

And depth or number of races isn't an either or situation, that is false assumption you are making.

About 200 people worked on DAO


So less then Larian's 300+.

And Larian now self publishes, I've heard that allows the makers of the Witcher 3 to create AAA games for a lot less then other AAA developers.

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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by Hawke
Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by Buttercheese
I am not sure what Owlcat have to do with this, but if we are gonna compare companies, Bioware's Dragon Age has overall only four playable races throughout the series and they presumably have a bigger budget and workforce than all the other companies in the genre combined. Just throwing some arbitrary numbers around ain't constructive here. Resources can be used in very different ways.

My point is that I want quality over quantity. If that means cutting some (sub) races from the roster, then so be it.


I looked for hard numbers on developers for any of the Dragon Age games and came up empty, so I'm not prepared to assume that they had a larger workforce then Larian Studios until I get hard evidence of that, I need actual numbers.

And depth or number of races isn't an either or situation, that is false assumption you are making.

About 200 people worked on DAO


So less then Larian's 300+.

And Larian now self publishes, I've heard that allows the makers of the Witcher 3 to create AAA games for a lot less then other AAA developers.

No Larian has 200 +100 working externally also involved with the game.

Last edited by Hawke; 06/12/19 12:02 AM.
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200+ internal and 100 external folks working on the game equals 300 people.

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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
200+ internal and 100 external folks working on the game equals 300 people.


Then Dragon Age had a lot more since externals are usually not counted. This discussion is pointless since we have no idea who those 100 people are and how involved they are in the development. Of course, Larian and Bioware are completely different companies with very different structures so comparing them is pointless.

Last edited by Hawke; 06/12/19 01:38 AM.
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Originally Posted by Hawke
Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
200+ internal and 100 external folks working on the game equals 300 people.


Then Dragon Age had a lot more since externals are usually not counted. This discussion is pointless since we have no idea who those 100 people are and how involved they are in the development. Of course, Larian and Bioware are completely different companies with very different structures so comparing them is pointless.


I didn't start the comparison to Dragon Age. I compared it to the up coming Wrath of the Righteous, which I felt makes more system, both are D&D games, unlike Dragon Age.

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